DUST Search - Well this is just plain laughable!

Varoth Drac wrote:

So OP, just to be clear, you aren't complaining?

My thoughts on shield tanking? Assuming it should be buffed (a little), I think it should be done in a way that maintains the design distinction from armour tanking, i.e. lower hp, higher regen, cover based. Here are some options.

Buffing base regen stats is bad, as it is too draconian. Suits are already sufficiently differentiated by base stats. We should have a reasonable amount of freedom to fit how we like. Also we need to encourage the fitting of shield regen mods to promote variety and discourage dual tanking or hp stacking. If base stats are too good there is no incentive to fit regen mods. The exception is commandos, who should have their shield regen stats buffed to sentinel levels.

Buffing regulators - Possibly a good idea. However, a delay is necessary as having to take cover to regen is central to the design of shield tanking. Currently it is possible to get very low shield delays by fitting complex regulators. I feel that mlt, std and adv regulators need a buff however.

Buffing extenders. I don't support this. Tanking style should be based upon which regen mods you fit. Stacking hp is a boring meta. Encouraging extender stacking works against the design of shield tanking as a high regen style. It also encourages dual tanking and reduces the efficiency of fitting damage mods, or other high slot modules.

Buffing energisers / rechargers. This would be a good option in my opinion. These are good modules to build a distinctly shield based tank. They have good synergy with extenders and regulators, so discourage dual tanking. They also compete in high slots with extenders and damage mods, so they discourage hp stacking, however they need to be a valuable module to be worthwhile. They also exemplify the design goals of shield tanking, providing high regen at the cost of hp stacking, but still requiring the user to find cover. I feel the current potential regen is not enough for the sacrifices you have to make compared to armour, especially the fact you have to take cover and wait to regen.

Another good (alternative) option would be to nerf armour. I suggest reducing the hp of all plates (including reactive and ferroscale) by 10%. Hp stacking has been the dominant meta for pretty much all of dust. We are moving in the right direction, however hp is still king. Reducing the value of hp mods will in turn increase the value of other mods. Ofcourse, by reducing armour hp, shield tanking automatically becomes a more viable alternative.

When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.


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Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 252	Posted - 2015.09.07 22:09:00 - [1] - Quote So, despite 90% of the community here, coming here believing that this is gonna be some other guy crying about the game, sorry guys for the misleading title. Now what is laughable, you might ask? Some many months ago, a lot of shield players (95% caldari I'm sure) had been asking for a buff to their suits, to their modules, and overall better gameplay balancing so that they can get in and cap objectives just like armor players can. These request threads were coming out the wood work's non-stop, until afterward's a lot of us just pretty much gave up, CCP never gave us ANY confirmation's, no reassurance's, literally about a month after, we decided to give up. Now the CPM 2 is around and there hasn't been so much as ONE single thread about any shield buff requests, I find that, hilarious at best. We constantly asked, but nothing got done, now the CPM 2 has been chosen, and not a SINGLE thread on the dust forums have been seen regarding shield tech (albeit I'm sure that many of us decided to E-mail the CPM 2). Now, by no mean's is this an actual complaint and take what you've read (so far) with a grain of salt, I've actually just started using, a basic mennon fit, with a gek and flaylock, with a bunch of armor mod's, and even I can say that, I've gotten 60% better scores with an armor fit, than I have with a shield fit, I mean I'm getting 200k isk per game, with a score of like 12 +/- 4, in terms of scores. So, pretty much, I never thought I would, BUT I am praising everything Gallente being better than Caldari all round, I can kill players at 50+ meters no prob, even against RR 80% of the time I actually come out on top, the tanking is better, if I need hp I can just drop a compact hive, and get back to the fight quickly, honestly speaking, with an armor amount of 817, I just can't lose. Only thing I ever die to? Mass driver, HMG, shotgun, and rarely but occasionally scouts with Nova knives, also scrambler rifles, and extremely rarely, any RR variant. I've killed RR user's more than they've killed me, and THEY had the opening in the gun fight, I essentially finished the gun fight. End. (Once more, take what you've read with a grain of salt, this is just my experience's, both in-game, and forum wise, all compiled into 1 thread) When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 253	Posted - 2015.09.08 02:31:00 - [2] - Quote Sicerly Yaw wrote: how does this not count as crying about the game? CPM is part of the game they are players just as you and I are Simple, I'm done trying to ask for improvements, simple as that, I've been very patient, and now my patience has run out, at this point, I'll take what i can get. 2nd: even if they are players, same as you and I, all these names that were chosen, none of them are part of the sniper commune, and none of them from what I can tell, use shield 24/7, like some other players. 3rdly: Given the past CPM, who actually managed to get something done AND what has happened since then? What have we seen in the past? (To put simply, none of the CPM members actually relied upon shield as a means of tank, they used armor, same as the rest.). And once again, it's not crying, cause, what's the point, since I'm probably some time in the future, just going to switch to armor anyway? A lot of other player's have, and I've seen my score's, K/D and WP go up ever since I started using armor, so if shield's can't get me these same result's? What's the point of playing my favorite play style, over choosing one that's clearly successful to the me and my team? When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 256	Posted - 2015.09.09 06:45:00 - [3] - Quote I can't read the trello board's here, I'll try it on my Ps3 later. When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 257	Posted - 2015.09.09 22:30:00 - [4] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: So OP, just to be clear, you aren't complaining? My thoughts on shield tanking? Assuming it should be buffed (a little), I think it should be done in a way that maintains the design distinction from armour tanking, i.e. lower hp, higher regen, cover based. Here are some options. Buffing base regen stats is bad, as it is too draconian. Suits are already sufficiently differentiated by base stats. We should have a reasonable amount of freedom to fit how we like. Also we need to encourage the fitting of shield regen mods to promote variety and discourage dual tanking or hp stacking. If base stats are too good there is no incentive to fit regen mods. The exception is commandos, who should have their shield regen stats buffed to sentinel levels. Buffing regulators - Possibly a good idea. However, a delay is necessary as having to take cover to regen is central to the design of shield tanking. Currently it is possible to get very low shield delays by fitting complex regulators. I feel that mlt, std and adv regulators need a buff however. Buffing extenders. I don't support this. Tanking style should be based upon which regen mods you fit. Stacking hp is a boring meta. Encouraging extender stacking works against the design of shield tanking as a high regen style. It also encourages dual tanking and reduces the efficiency of fitting damage mods, or other high slot modules. Buffing energisers / rechargers. This would be a good option in my opinion. These are good modules to build a distinctly shield based tank. They have good synergy with extenders and regulators, so discourage dual tanking. They also compete in high slots with extenders and damage mods, so they discourage hp stacking, however they need to be a valuable module to be worthwhile. They also exemplify the design goals of shield tanking, providing high regen at the cost of hp stacking, but still requiring the user to find cover. I feel the current potential regen is not enough for the sacrifices you have to make compared to armour, especially the fact you have to take cover and wait to regen. Another good (alternative) option would be to nerf armour. I suggest reducing the hp of all plates (including reactive and ferroscale) by 10%. Hp stacking has been the dominant meta for pretty much all of dust. We are moving in the right direction, however hp is still king. Reducing the value of hp mods will in turn increase the value of other mods. Ofcourse, by reducing armour hp, shield tanking automatically becomes a more viable alternative. Yeah, pretty much, I mean, honestly, I've made my reasonable balance pass on caldari, since every other race has a decent and powerful niche, Gallente has ever so effective armor capabilities, Amarr has weapon efficiency, minmatar has ewar, really when you look at it, the iteration of Caldari despite being OP back then, was much more a formidable opponent, could cap objectives efficiently and confidently. My rebalance of cal assault would be - Shield:400 Shield Regen:30 Shield Delay:3 Depleted Delay:5 Armor:120 Rebalance of caldari medium Shield: 300 Shield Regen:20 Shield Delay: 4 Depleted Delay:6 Armor:120 Heavy Cal/Commando Shield:550 Shield Regen:30 Shield Delay:3 Depleted Delay:4 Armor: 200 Caldari Sentinel Shield: 700 Shield Regen: 40 Shield Delay: 2 Depleted Delay: 3 Armor:250 -END- That seem's reasonable to me, if you have too much armor, which the armor plate's already give enough for you to go 500+ armor on caldari, that'll facilitate dual tanking, taking armor off the suit, reduces the possibilities of dual tanking. Now by no mean's this alone will actually SAVE the caldari, no, that'll have to be a completely different rebalance, like reducing shield rechargeaount and re-implementing the constant shield recharge, forcing shield player's to using an energizer or two. (only reason why I propose constant shield recharge is cause, without it, shield still wouldn't be formidable and people would only cry about it later on) Oh and also to me, the scout/light caldari is pretty much fine, being able to get 400 shield is perfect to me. Var, I really did mean it when I said I wasn't complaining, I'm just trying to enjoy the game more at this point, so balancing passes are pretty much behind me, If I can't have fun with a game, I may as well drop it right? I picked up armor tanking because, it's just versatile, armor is so versatile in this game, being able to do even what shield's can do with better efficiency, and I'm enjoying it. When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.