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Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen
Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2015.08.31 08:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
Since I haven't seen any numbers proposed in a long time, and ADS are clearly in need of some help if they ever want to do anything other than run away all the time.
STD, ADV, PRO
Right now we just have the single tier of ADS, unlike the multi tiered tanks that we currently have. I'm not here to propose buffs to Basic Dropships or LAVs, though they could potentially receive similar treatments.
Current stats are as follows
INCUBUS:
CPU: 515
PG: 1055
Shields: 950
Armor: 2362
PYTHON:
CPU: 760
PG: 810 (I recommend a slight buff to 875 to help with current power constraints. Further numbers will be based off this value)
Shields: 1548 (I also recommend a buff to 1852, due to shields under-performing in general)
Armor: 960
Now, following the exact formula of HAV progression, STD to ADV is a 1.13% increase to PG / CPU, and ADV to PRO is a 1.133% increase
ADV INCUBUS:
CPU: 582
PG: 1192
Shields: 950
Armor: 2362
Slots: 1/3
PRO INCUBUS:
CPU: 659
PG: 1351
Shields: 950
Armor: 2362
Slots: 1/4
ADV PYTHON:
CPU: 859
PG: 989
Shields: 1852
Armor: 960
Slots: 3/1
PRO PYTHON:
CPU: 973
PG: 1121
Shields: 1852
Armor: 960
Slots: 4/1
I have been a very long supporter of 3/2 and 2/3 layouts for PRO slot progression, however, I feel this might homogenize things a little bit. Adding an extra slot to the primary tank should make for more interesting fits that fall more in line with the ships intended roles.
I think Swarms should be more balanced vs PRO ADS instead of being able to kill many fits in a single clip. I do believe Forge Guns will need a slight DPS buff, preferably through a mix of straight damage and RoF buffs. I can't really speak about PLCs since they aren't really Anti Air and I very rarely get shot / hit by them. They seem pretty balanced where they are. Since ADS will be much more resilient, and I've always felt that vehicles should be the best counter to vehicles, I believe that every turret both Small and Large should receive a 10% buff to turret elevation. This should allow the top small turret on a tank to track an ADS at almost any time, and allows solo tanks to better attack ADS that are harassing them.
Lastly I think to simplify things, ADS should directly echo HAV Pricing. The current cost for an ADS hull is 200,000 ISK. I propose an identical STD: 97,500 ISK ADV: 195,000 PRO: 682,500 |
Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
1
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Posted - 2015.08.31 09:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
In summary, you want dropships fitting and prices to mimic tanks. I think it is a bad idea.
Your starting with the current ADS as the base, but experience shows, this wont happen. What rattati did was structure tank fitting by tier. Current ADS would get a relative fitting nerf. Standard ADS would be based around standard modules, advanced ADS around half advanced / basic modules and the pro ADS on half pro/ adv modules. Turrets would be near impossible to fit on lower dropship.
The current ADV dropships would become the proto type variants because we can scratch out some pro moules on them.
Combine that with pricing increase. If you redisign swarms to know out Pro dropships, the adv and standard dropships instantly become obsolete. Combine that with the zero pilot manuevers available to avoid swarms hits within 400+ m of being shot at. Without the pro modules to survive that, let alone forge gun hits, the low price of AV (chepest proto weapons by nearly 50% in the market) let alone officer AV, this effectivley eliminates all options but the proto one.
687,000 for the same fits we have now, reads as an acroos the board nerf.
Lets just go with what we have now.
STD dropships are pure transport.
ADV dropships are assault
Pro dropships sould be pure support. Logi dropships.
I would rather have the Logi Droship return as the PRO variant. High PG CPU, slot layout of the standard ships, manuevarabilty of ADS, zero nose cannon.
- Returns already premade assets into the game
- Isn't an I win Button (firepower with gunners still dominated by Assault ships, gunners no more effective than on a STD ship)
- Doesnt entail trying to rebalance an enitre class of vehicles and AV to compensate.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
"I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
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Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen
Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2015.08.31 09:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
That seems silly. It's obvious our current ships are not Proto ships at all. You can even fit proto mods on a MLT tank, so I'm not sure what your point is.
I understand that there are very little resources available to make changes, so I propose a simple change to help keep things easy to implement. It's very clear that current ADS are STD in nature, making them weaker would be entirely pointless. They're flyable right now if you run from everything and get lucky a lot, but they don't stack up against AV in the slightest.
Instead of wishing for removed assets to return, I would rather see current assets be brought up to speed.
I'm not sure how you're getting that 682k would be for the same fits we have now when my proposal would allow for significantly varied fits given the additional CPU / PG as well as the additional slot at PRO |
Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
1
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Posted - 2015.08.31 10:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'm going by the tank balance experience.
Right now, my Incubus fit is
Enhanced Afterburner
Pro turret (misile and rail)
complex light rep
complex 60mm plate
enhanced hardner
Even though its light modules, they are protoype modules. Unless rattati says otherwise, i have no reason to believe (given the tank balance experience) he won't balance standard drop ships around standard modules. Your only assuming that they are standard in nature based on thier performance, but according to thier fitting capacity for light modules (which are meant for dropships and LAVS) the ADS class are at least ADV if not Proto.
So if we have the three tiers its a safe bet that the current one would be the proto class. Hence your proto price tage would be applied to it.
I dont see the variation you are talking about. I leave the Pythons for the python pilots, but for the incubus 1/4 means
Afterburner
2 hardeners
Plate
Rep
Same vanilla fit, but with a extra HP mod of choice. And that would seriously be OP. Its hard enough taking down a double hardened tank, let alone a double hardened incubus with 3k+ armor. Double hardned incubi barely work now, because they have to sacrifice so much HP for it.
If we went through with your proposal, i would much rather have a second high slot. Damage mod or heat sink or scanner would help immensly, and i cannot give up my afterburner.
Bringing back an old asset isn't as hard as it seems because it doesnt need to be rebalanced around everything at once. Tanks had to get revamped from top to bottom.
Just takes two ships which are already in the system, a few number crunches and there you go.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
"I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
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Juno Tristan
Obscure Reference
797
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Posted - 2015.08.31 10:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
I'm all for tiered dropships but the proposed figures would probably be OP compared to everything other than swarms
So why don't we just fix the real problem
ADS Ramming Revenge!
Plasma Cannon Rampage
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Vulpes Dolosus
Sardaukar Merc Guild
General Tso's Alliance
3
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Posted - 2015.08.31 10:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
Like others have said, I'm all for progression but using the current stats as STD would make them a bit OP.
With my admittedly limited experience with fitting tanks, I think ADS progression should aim for (assuming at least lvl4 defensive fittings):
STD: ADV fitting with 1 ADV turret, no side turrets (goal should be for practice more than function) 125k base
ADV: Proto (or optimal) fitting with Proto turret, standard side turrets with slight gimped fitting or turret fitting skills (work horse, go to for dedicated pilots) 200k base
Proto: Proto fitting, Proto turret, ADV side turrets with some fitting skills (PC tier) 300k base
Dust is there! I was real!
Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
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