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Sicerly Yaw
Corrosive Synergy
No Context
936
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Posted - 2015.08.29 03:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
grenades are currently in a weird spot, some of them can be seen are horrendously over powered, others however are hardly used and are regarded as useless at times
what I would like to propose is to reduce the carried amount of grenades to a base of 1 and to increase this number according to the bandwidth of the suit, in short terms the logi would be the one to carry multiple grenades, now carrying and using grenades would not be affect the bandwidth it would simply be a guideline as to how many each suit can carry
now a problem does exist in where heavies will only be ever allowed to carry a single grenade, but logis and other suit will have much more
my plan would be to allow less used grenades and those that are less powerful to cost less bandwidth, a new bandwidth could be introduced just for this if people don't like the idea of sharing the one that's already there
I would suggest to make core locus nades cost 8bw while others such as the sleek locus and other such varients cost much less perhaps even as low as 2bw or 3bw
flux nades can cost somewhere around 6bw while AV nades could cost anywhere from 2-6bw changing slightly for each variant
I bring up this idea because I find it somewhat annoying that the more utility based nades are held back by the capacity making it so that you can only use them if you can resupply them quickly or only in exaggerated situations
the cost for each could be adjusted and some suits would be able to carry more then others, this is intended so that every suit cant just carry 2+ core nades but some could carry 6 or so sleek nades instead rather then only using the core nades as they seem to be the only viable nades to uses currently as far as anti infantry nades go
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Sicerly Yaw
Corrosive Synergy
No Context
943
|
Posted - 2015.08.29 23:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:Why not drop Core damage to 500 (Locus Genades would do 300/400/500) and increase nanite cost?
because that doesnt do anything to help every single other variant as the sleek only does 150 damge in 9m and the packed is much harder to use due to its small blast radius, and the contact nade could be used more often by high bandwidth suits as well as giving some incentive to use the other variants
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Sicerly Yaw
Corrosive Synergy
No Context
943
|
Posted - 2015.08.30 01:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:Sicerly Yaw wrote:Megaman Trigger wrote:Why not drop Core damage to 500 (Locus Genades would do 300/400/500) and increase nanite cost? because that doesnt do anything to help every single other variant as the sleek only does 150 damge in 9m and the packed is much harder to use due to its small blast radius, and the contact nade could be used more often by high bandwidth suits as well as giving some incentive to use the other variants This doesn't help either, it just means only certain suits can spam them.
you need to realize that it doesn't change how many you can resupply, all the suits that can currently spam them will have no change other then the carried amount that only changes this would have is to help certain suits carry more initially
the only suit that will be hurt at all by this is the sentinal since they would only be able to carry 1 nade but this can be fixed to where certain nades have a base amount of 2 or 3 this way nothing changes and some suits bengefit from being able to carry multiple utility nades like the sleek and packed ones
increasing the resupply cost for nades would help so that nades aren't spammed so much but realize that its a perfectly valid tactic espaiclly when the cost of spamming core nades and other pro nades comes at over 10k per nade the cores cost 14k a piece I don't think some people realize this and when tankers complain about lai dais those are about 23k a piece
if something like that doesn't at least do some major damge then why bother using them at all, If I decide to spam some nades and say put over 300k isk in just to do that I should at least see some results from it, the nade spam was a major problem when anyone and everyone could do it but now there are some major restrictions for it, just think about how much hives cost and add the cost of each nade it adds up very quickly
any suit can sit by a supply depot or on top of some hives and spam away, what I'd like to be able to do is carry more sleek or packed nades especially on logi suits it would help have more utility and give extra support
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Sicerly Yaw
Corrosive Synergy
No Context
947
|
Posted - 2015.08.30 11:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:Rather than make Logis the go-to suit for grenade spamming, why not just buff the sleek and packed grenades in addition to rebalancing the main Locus grenades?
because the nades themselves aren't weak they are just more utility oriented meaning they are meant for specific situations but just one or two doesn't cut it at times and doing this allows others suits to carry more as well not just logies
but like I said a completely different bandwidth could be introduced for nades
and that argument is still invalid logis are already the go to spam suits as they can carry more hives is it that hard to figure that out?
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Sicerly Yaw
Corrosive Synergy
No Context
947
|
Posted - 2015.08.30 13:26:00 -
[5] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:
So why givem them even more grenades to spam?
If Sleek and Packed are underperforming, we should look at the reason why rather than buff the numbers carried.
What if Sleek were basically Assault Locus Grenades; lower damage but throw further with a bigger radius for suppression rather than kills.
Packed would be Breach Grenades; shorter distance, smaller radius but higher damage than the base line. Make it the better choice for pushing enclosed objectives.
EDIT: Checked the market place and these are how the weapons work. There's also no Packed basic, no Sleek Advanced and neither at Proto. This needs to be addressed.
EDIT 2: Looking at AV Grenades, the difference in damage seems to be 25% from the base variant (Packed is +25%, Sleek is -25%) which could be applied to Locus Grenades.
Locus Grenades become 400/450/500
Sleek become 300/337.5/375
Packed become 500/562.5/625
everything you're saying is exactly what I am trying to address except you are arguing against it and trying to ruin something that already works well, the only thing holding the different variants back as is the case with the thukker is the poor amount you can carry, if you could carry mutiple packed or sleek nades there would be more incentive to use them over core nades, your suggestion does nothing to improve this as the core would still out perform the other variants making it pointless to use something else especially if those are just weaker variants in both terms of damge or blast radius
the sleek nade is best used to cover a large area to hit multiple enemies, while the packed is better for single target skill throws, the core nade has the same damge as the adv packed nade but with better blast radius giving little incentive to use it other then to perhaps save some isk but allowing more to be carried would be good so you dont have to resupply as often and you have more room for error giving more incentive to use these rather then the core
the sleek are my preffered locus nade as they can clear a room of equipment while damaging enemies and dealing damge comparable to that of a mass driver and you can bounce it off of walls or on top of buildings but like I have stated its held back due to the ability to only carry 2 at a time
nade spam is not as big as a problem now that we have bandwidth and the cost is much higher anyone that complains about it doesn't understand just exactly what is going on and to put things into perspective a sleek locus nade is almost comparable to an assault mass driver except it has no direct damge but makes up for it in other ways, complaining about them being spammed would be like complaining that a mass driver, and complaining about core locus spam is like saying that something that costs about the same price of a proto weapon per 2 nades shouldn't kill you
if someones is putting that much effort and that much isk into winning there should be some reward in it I think personally that 24k isk more then justifies a measly 600 damge, and a lot of the complaints about nade spam are partly due to the high amount of armor users in the current meta which are naturally weaker to explosive damge
simply changing the amount carried could possibly be enough but I believe certain suits primarily logies should be able to carry more utility oriented nades, nades could simply be adjusted so that they cost more clusters to resupply but if I remember correctly that has already been done once and it has been stated that nade spam just like mass driver usage is a valid tactic
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Sicerly Yaw
Corrosive Synergy
No Context
948
|
Posted - 2015.08.31 02:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:
Proposed numbers
Sleek: 300/337.5/375 9m blast
Locus: 400/450/500 6m blast
Packed : 500/562.5/625 3m blast
I have already considered this, in fact I have been using grenades extensively testing them out and I can say wihout a doubt that doing this would not fix the problem
granades that do less damge such as the std locus and adv locus don't do enough damge to make a significant difference, this can be justified by their semi low cost, however doing only marginal damge at proto for the current price makes it fairly useless just like the std and adv versions
a packed nade needs to do more damge having such a low blast radius makes it even less useful and only good when used by a skilled player
your comparison to the other nades variants such as the AV nade is misguided vehicles work way different and not to mention that you can carry 3 of any AV nade this was done because 2 nades alone would not be enough in most cases but instead of buffing them or changing anything they increased the carry amount simple as that
the AV nades have a tracking mechanism with the sleek being the best at tracking and the packed being the worst making it easier to use the sleek against DS's and fast moving LAV's
a packed locus nade can be used in small cramped spaces to deal massive damge to a single target while a sleek locus is best used to clear a room just like a mass driver but without having to be in direct line of sight, 300+ damge would make spamming these unfair if it takes only 3 or so to take anyone out that's simply too OP while doing near 150 is well balanced as many explosive weapons do those that do 300+ splash take time and skill to use and usually have a small blast radius example AFG and PLC
consider why I proposed this and I did say that a new bandwidth could be introduced fixing any problem you should have with the idea, the nades are fairly balanced as they are all the numbers work well and the cost to damge ratio is in a good spot perhaps small damge buffs would be ok but any nerfs are uncalled for
the only problem I have with grenades is their visibility, every game I have played always has some sort of warning system and in dust the only way to know if you are in danger is to be directly looking at it making it hard at times to be able to dodge and extremely difficult to avoid nades that have been cooked, simply adding more visibility to nades would fix a lot of the fundamental problems
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