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DeadlyAztec11
8
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Posted - 2015.08.25 19:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
For the last three months there has been a never ending wave of threads on matching.
When a lot of people talk about how having a squad of proto on one team and only new players on the other is evidence that the matchmaker is flawed, they are not looking at the big picture. The very first thing any matchmaker does is take connection into consideration. If there are only 16 players of similar connection levels they will end up in a game. It doesn't matter if the oldest and newest player are facing each other they will end up in the same game because of their similar connections. The Dust Population is not large. That means that often there aren't enough players of similar connection for the matchmaker to take skill into account.
Most people imagine that there are always 16 bad players that can always play against each other, and that there are always 16 good players that can be put into their own game. In reality it's usually 16 players of similar connections and very different skill sets.
So while many matchmaking decisions feel questionable we are assuming the matchmaker had more players to choose from. The matchmaker will always pick connection over comparable skill because everyone would rather get into a badly matched game then not even be placed in a game because there's not enough people of similar skill level to them to start a match.
So the matchmaker isn't necessarily messing up because it's not smart it's likely that it's messing up because the active population is so small that outside of peak hours there's not enough players of similar connections to pick and choose people based on skill. It's only when there are more than 16 players of similar connections that skill is even part of the equation.
Put your flags up in the sky.
And wave them side to side.
Show the world where you're from.
Show the world we are one.
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deezy dabest
IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP Evil Syndicate Alliance.
3
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Posted - 2015.08.25 20:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
Match making actually works INCREDIBLY well. The issue is no incentive to fight leading the players who Scotty has deemed worthy of supporting the team to either grab a few kills in a crap suit and disappear or leave battle. Once those players disappear or have left battle already the few newbies are left facing a full team who is now in full on farm mode. Look at how leaving battle did not become truly epidemic until the new match making was introduced. That was because the try hards were actually facing the try hards causing them to risk their precious KDRs for no real reward at all.
If there was real reward for killing proto and a lack of reward for killing MLT suit after MLT suit in a proto suit then matchmaking would be one of the better things you have ever seen. This is why I have and will continue to propose a keep what you kill system and call all of you that ***** about match making morons because the real problem is right in front of you but you choose to ignore it for fear of getting called a broke scrub or to git gud because the rich players would rather the rest of the community be held down by broken mechanics.
++ Remove NPC orbitals from FW -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest ++
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Spytenn Mallus
Kinsho Swords Caldari State
48
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Posted - 2015.08.25 21:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
Whichever makes someone more lethal, thanks.
In 7 days: Old Testament.
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Operative 1174 Uuali
True Companion Planetary Requisitions
1
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Posted - 2015.08.26 00:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
The problem is premade squads. The problem is especially premade squads that que sync. These squads are usually farm squads. They are power players that spam FOTM and apply the lowest common denominator to win win win at the expense of fun and variety.
When that is all e game has to be then they do it. It is easy to do this when up against the general population that for whatever reason is not playing the same way.
The solution:
Get rid of premades in pubs. Focus on matchmaking filtering out those that tend to group up to keep them separated and solo.
There are two tryhard modes already for these power players to gather against one another.
Pubs should be solo because that is what most players in pubs are doing either because they are new to the game, want to play fast, briefly and casual or want to solo just to do it because that is allowed and is the default way to play games.
Playing solo is still a team game because you are indeedGǪ wait for itGǪ on a team. I play solo and know the game enough to jump around and provide assistence to win the game. I don't need to be talking to others to get what others are trying to do.
A number of times I've seen my efforts pay off. However, to do so meams I had to play in a way I didn't want to have to just to push against the power player, pull out anything as a counter mentality. I'd rather play the role I wanted to in the first place instead of having to pull out whatever instant counter Is going to work to win. It is usually scrubby crap.
Again, the source of this problem is premades. They coordinate and spam and really don't care about any flavor or variety the game has to offer. They could be playing with 8 bit squares for all they care.
CPM RESULTS SUMMERIZED
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Sicerly Yaw
Corrosive Synergy No Context
909
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Posted - 2015.08.26 01:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
I'm sorry to say this but you are completely wrong, the matchmaking is not based on the connection of the players and many players that switch servers can be placed in your game even if they have insanely high ping this fact alone disproves what you are saying
but as to your question players that don't lag can easily get accustomed and learn to be better players, however if you lag every other game or just at those moments when it matters there's no way you can easily improve not only that but it can be counter productive as AA is using it makes you aim differently then you would to actually hit a player its almost a completely different play style
skill based matchmaking is arbitrary in the past there was in fact no matchmaking formula players would simply be fielded as needed this created a sever imbalance were the majority of games were always one sided however player back then were more likely to be AFK rather then leave the match altogether
now as to how the matchmaking works is based on skill level and a lot of other factors, the main premise is that you are given a score in something called Mu the players get pooled together according to their score, this is as much as I know and everything may not be correct but its something along those lines rather then your connection
now your misconceptions as big or small as they may be have little to do with as to why matches end up 7/14 or complete stomps and such, matchmaking is in part responsible but it all comes down to the player base we have enough people playing in fact we have more then enough people playing such is evident by the amount of people complaining in the first place
the problem lies in how each player deals with opposition, many players are likely to leave a match in search of an easier one this causes certain problem, the first being inflated mu, stats second being no opposition so players get stuck in a match these players usually wait till the end to receive a reward rather then cancel out to find another match leaving a good amount of players stranded not being able to queue up because their opposition chose to leave making them complain about empty matches and the others to complain about not being able to get into a match because "there aren't enough players"
if your opposition is compromised of a small bracket of 300 and 280 of them are stuck in empty matches you get wonky things like 4 v 10 and other stupid matches as such then you get people complaining even tho they are likely the culprits due to leaving matches early for whatever reason and only trying to fight easy battles as well as inflating their Mu scores to get placed with people that they know they cant win against due to this making them leave even more battles and making them complain more and more
it is rare but at times I come across a perfect match in which my opposition and allies are both skilled and are both willing to fight tooth and nail not only that but because they are playing the game as they should and doing everything they can to reduce lag such as only playing in their designated server and deleting all mails and fixing their setting and such it turns out to be a great match in which the game end up close in both MCC health and clones as well as being relatively lag free, I recognize these players because a lot of them are semi active in the forums willing to help and seeking help themselves to improve rather then complain about everything, rare as it may be that is what we should all be striving for rather then complaining or abusing the in game mechanics to win
click here if you are making a new account and want some free BPO's
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Dreis ShadowWeaver
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
6
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Posted - 2015.08.26 01:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
Have you heard any DUST Dev say that the matchmaker favours connection over skill? If not, you shouldn't really be making assumptions.
Besides, I find it hard to believe that the matchmaker would favour connection, looking at all the laggy players from far-away countries I see in matches, and how people can just select what region's server they play on anyway.
Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel
My Minja Blog
Caldari blood, Matari heart <3
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Dreis ShadowWeaver
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
6
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Posted - 2015.08.26 01:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
Operative 1174 Uuali wrote:The problem is premade squads. The problem is especially premade squads that que sync. These squads are usually farm squads. They are power players that spam FOTM and apply the lowest common denominator to win win win at the expense of fun and variety.
When that is all e game has to be then they do it. It is easy to do this when up against the general population that for whatever reason is not playing the same way.
The solution:
Get rid of premades in pubs. Focus on matchmaking filtering out those that tend to group up to keep them separated and solo.
There are two tryhard modes already for these power players to gather against one another.
Pubs should be solo because that is what most players in pubs are doing either because they are new to the game, want to play fast, briefly and casual or want to solo just to do it because that is allowed and is the default way to play games.
Playing solo is still a team game because you are indeedGǪ wait for itGǪ on a team. I play solo and know the game enough to jump around and provide assistence to win the game. I don't need to be talking to others to get what others are trying to do.
A number of times I've seen my efforts pay off. However, to do so meams I had to play in a way I didn't want to have to just to push against the power player, pull out anything as a counter mentality. I'd rather play the role I wanted to in the first place instead of having to pull out whatever instant counter Is going to work to win. It is usually scrubby crap.
Again, the source of this problem is premades. They coordinate and spam and really don't care about any flavor or variety the game has to offer. They could be playing with 8 bit squares for all they care. If two hardcore squads queue-sync in Pubs, more often than not they will end up on opposing teams...
Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel
My Minja Blog
Caldari blood, Matari heart <3
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Union118
NON-Fatal Condemnation
703
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Posted - 2015.08.26 03:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:For the last three months there has been a never ending wave of threads on matching.
When a lot of people talk about how having a squad of proto on one team and only new players on the other is evidence that the matchmaker is flawed, they are not looking at the big picture. The very first thing any matchmaker does is take connection into consideration. If there are only 16 players of similar connection levels they will end up in a game. It doesn't matter if the oldest and newest player are facing each other they will end up in the same game because of their similar connections. The Dust Population is not large. That means that often there aren't enough players of similar connection for the matchmaker to take skill into account.
Most people imagine that there are always 16 bad players that can always play against each other, and that there are always 16 good players that can be put into their own game. In reality it's usually 16 players of similar connections and very different skill sets.
So while many matchmaking decisions feel questionable we are assuming the matchmaker had more players to choose from. The matchmaker will always pick connection over comparable skill because everyone would rather get into a badly matched game then not even be placed in a game because there's not enough people of similar skill level to them to start a match.
So the matchmaker isn't necessarily messing up because it's not smart it's likely that it's messing up because the active population is so small that outside of peak hours there's not enough players of similar connections to pick and choose people based on skill. It's only when there are more than 16 players of similar connections that skill is even part of the equation. If dust was perfected and sold at a store i still wouldnt buy it. Iv got my reasons and to be honest i prefer a simple game anyway. Dust is a neat game but its never going to be balanced for a lot of reasons. I wont be around when i moved on to better games and the only reason i play dust is because theres no other game like it. Its unique and sometimes fun but thats it. I might change my mind if i see its final results but i doubt i will. Once i get my new comp and few new games ill look back at dust and say "oh yeah, that game." and leave it at that.
Starter Fit Suits are OP :-)
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Dreis ShadowWeaver
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
6
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Posted - 2015.08.26 03:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
Union118 wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:For the last three months there has been a never ending wave of threads on matching.
When a lot of people talk about how having a squad of proto on one team and only new players on the other is evidence that the matchmaker is flawed, they are not looking at the big picture. The very first thing any matchmaker does is take connection into consideration. If there are only 16 players of similar connection levels they will end up in a game. It doesn't matter if the oldest and newest player are facing each other they will end up in the same game because of their similar connections. The Dust Population is not large. That means that often there aren't enough players of similar connection for the matchmaker to take skill into account.
Most people imagine that there are always 16 bad players that can always play against each other, and that there are always 16 good players that can be put into their own game. In reality it's usually 16 players of similar connections and very different skill sets.
So while many matchmaking decisions feel questionable we are assuming the matchmaker had more players to choose from. The matchmaker will always pick connection over comparable skill because everyone would rather get into a badly matched game then not even be placed in a game because there's not enough people of similar skill level to them to start a match.
So the matchmaker isn't necessarily messing up because it's not smart it's likely that it's messing up because the active population is so small that outside of peak hours there's not enough players of similar connections to pick and choose people based on skill. It's only when there are more than 16 players of similar connections that skill is even part of the equation. If dust was perfected and sold at a store i still wouldnt buy it. Iv got my reasons and to be honest i prefer a simple game anyway. Dust is a neat game but its never going to be balanced for a lot of reasons. I wont be around when i moved on to better games and the only reason i play dust is because theres no other game like it. Its unique and sometimes fun but thats it. I might change my mind if i see its final results but i doubt i will. Once i get my new comp and few new games ill look back at dust and say "oh yeah, that game." and leave it at that. This will just be another post for Viktor to link to several months down the line.
One does not simply 'quit' DUST.
Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel
My Minja Blog
Caldari blood, Matari heart <3
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DeadlyAztec11
8
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Posted - 2015.08.26 07:01:00 -
[10] - Quote
Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote:Have you heard any DUST Dev say that the matchmaker favours connection over skill? If not, you shouldn't really be making assumptions.
Besides, I find it hard to believe that the matchmaker would favour connection, looking at all the laggy players from far-away countries I see in matches, and how people can just select what region's server they play on anyway. A lot of people probably have there server set to Automatic and that gives the matchmaker more players to work with.
I'm not saying that connection is perfect. Though, if it didn't factor in connection first then there would be certain players that would almost never be able to play. What I'm saying is that the playerbase is small enough that a matchmaker is almost irrelevant outside of peak hours.
Also, I have read up on many different matchmakers for different games and in litterly every single one connection is the number one factor. If connection isn't the main concern then the match will be terrible despite similar Mu levels on both sides. There will be certain players that would never be able to hit each other.
Right now connection is still an issue because the matchmaker is allowing a wide range of connection types to be considered ' similar ' to the average because there is rarely 16 players of very similar connection types avaliable.
Put your flags up in the sky.
And wave them side to side.
Show the world where you're from.
Show the world we are one.
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Joel II X
Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
8
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Posted - 2015.08.26 13:33:00 -
[11] - Quote
Why can't we have both?
On one side, you get smooth redlines, on the other you get a PowerPoint presentation. Both are pathetic.
Scouts United
Gk.0s & Quafes all day.
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