DUST Search - This is why the matchmaking system is failing .

deezy dabest wrote:

Match making actually works INCREDIBLY well. The issue is no incentive to fight leading the players who Scotty has deemed worthy of supporting the team to either grab a few kills in a crap suit and disappear or leave battle. Once those players disappear or have left battle already the few newbies are left facing a full team who is now in full on farm mode. Look at how leaving battle did not become truly epidemic until the new match making was introduced. That was because the try hards were actually facing the try hards causing them to risk their precious KDRs for no real reward at all.

If there was real reward for killing proto and a lack of reward for killing MLT suit after MLT suit in a proto suit then matchmaking would be one of the better things you have ever seen. This is why I have and will continue to propose a keep what you kill system and call all of you that ***** about match making morons because the real problem is right in front of you but you choose to ignore it for fear of getting called a broke scrub or to git gud because the rich players would rather the rest of the community be held down by broken mechanics.


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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui MeatBag Disposal Service LOGISTICS 2	Posted - 2015.08.25 18:06:00 - [1] - Quote It's inconsistent in the fact that you can have sometimes one or two squads on the same team facing random players on the other team , the fact that you can Q or drop full PRO / OFC squads against a group of random players is flawed in it's self . I believe that the system should be changed to reflect the numbers and the makeup of the community and the only way to do that is to eliminate the current system and introduce a system of both teams , consisting of randomly generated players , no Q's and no ready made squads , just a mix of random players , given to include time in the warbarge ( Yes , bring back the warbarge ) to create squads in that allotted time , allow squad chat to play the instructional role as the conductor for those who just don't understand the concept of squad , they can receive instruction from their individual squad leads and because the matches are generated with random players on both sides , chances are that either team would not be stacked , especially since both consist of random players , it would be better then the settings that we have at the current moment . Pub matches should adopt this format , meaning skirmish , domination , ambush ( which should have this format anyway , it is an ambush and it should be team against team in a free for all ) and acquisition , while Factional Warfare and PC's remain squad based . Numbers are not growing , players are leaving , newer players are not getting the instruction nor feel like their a part of what's going on in the current settings , most of the time they AFK and watch the tempo of the match's opening moments before they make a move , a lot feel overwhelmed and helpless as well as the fact that most who play in squads are from well known corporation as well as random corps but have the previous knowledge of playing with these same individuals from formally being in the same corporation or just from friendship , leaving newer and lesser players in the lurch and if they join a corporation , then you have the same perpetual cycle still in existence of ready made squads , Q'd up to drop and stomp random players because the system is not guaranteed to balance both teams with at least a squad on both . This has caused the stomping mentality as well as driving players who feel overwhelmed away from feeling frustrated , killed the competitive nature of some who are just trying to gain an understanding of what's going on and are just trying to build their character to be able to compete . Now , those from established corporations as well as those who perpetuate such behavior will of course be against this , it kills their advantage , they like playing with their corp mates and that's understood but this behavior is killing the competitive nature of the game , for the most part ... most matches are stomps with one side dominating another , how is this good for the game .?. if your playing with the same people every match , how are the newer players gaining the experience and the confidence to keep at it if their getting stomped , match after match ? How is this helpful for the game in the game modes that are played the most ? Most talk about how the situation is but few have the courage to make or suggest a change for the better , a change that doesn't involve a lot of code work and complicated effort figuring out a system to create balanced matches , when you can just have randomly generated matches , with random players , allotted time in the warbarge ( It could be the same time allowed in FW ) to create squads and have a more even match in more balanced settings . It would be hard to believe that the computer would continue to overload teams with good players on one side and less then on the other and you would have corp mates matched against each other at times , just like FW is now . More balance means better matches and less of a chance of playing against a stacked team , dropping full PRO /OFC gear in Q's , like it is now . I'm sure that I will face a lot of opposition to this idea but it's something that I feel strongly about , numbers need to grow .. it's not the PS3's fault and this is a free to play game , newer and lesser players deserve a chance to grow , not feel overwhelmed and given a competitive chance as well as instruction and guidance . They might be more willing to join a corporation but not only that , know what to do as well as develop a niche all in the process . This system that is in place is just not working , something needs to be done and that something has to be outside the box because inside the box just isn't working . These are my thought's and I will not argue with anyone about this , something needs to happen to help this game to grow because what's going on now just isn't working and I wouldn't want a meta limit installed because you need to feel free to equip yourself how you see fit , you worked hard for what you have and you want to use it but it's time for the have's to share and break bread with the have not's . I believe that this could help that process . Teamwork is really important - said the Tyrannosarus Rex from Kung Fury .
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui MeatBag Disposal Service LOGISTICS 2	Posted - 2015.08.25 18:16:00 - [2] - Quote Larkson Crazy Eye wrote: Frankly I figured they just need to look into one real stat when picking deployment teams, ISK. It doesn't matter how much SP a person has, their KDR, or win loss ratio. The biggest factor that usually decided if it's going to be a proto stomp or not is if the person can afford to run a proto suit. If they have millions of isk you get those people who don't care if they lose 5-10 proto suites a match. They are the kind of people that run proto 24/7 and never worry about cost. It doesn't matter if their not that great of a player they will have an effect on the battlefield. It gets even worse to those who have so much isk even losing a few proto tanks mean nothing to them. That's true but if you have friends , you could have 50 PRO Gunnlogi's and ADS's all with pro turrets and mods , 50 OFC suits all with PRO gear and have 10,000 isk in your wallet , but because you have friends or corp mates , it really doesn't matter how much you loose because they can bankroll you easily . I understand where your coming from though but the fact that some use ALT's as banks and storage units , kind of creates gaps in that system and makes it easily manipulated . Teamwork is really important - said the Tyrannosarus Rex from Kung Fury .
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui MeatBag Disposal Service LOGISTICS 2	Posted - 2015.08.25 19:01:00 - [3] - Quote Francisco Walker wrote: Please CCP, could you fix the human behavior? Be honest , would you really trust that ? I have to be a bit of a skeptic about that one if that was possible , I totally don't trust them anymore and to me trust is everything . They seem too afraid of making daring moves , but that's just my opinion . Teamwork is really important - said the Tyrannosarus Rex from Kung Fury .
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui MeatBag Disposal Service LOGISTICS 2	Posted - 2015.08.25 19:05:00 - [4] - Quote Alcina Nektaria wrote: Best and easiest solution imo is that if someone q's into a pub and isn't in a squad, they get put into a "no squad" match. If they are in a squad and q in, they get put in "squad" match. CCP, add another contract for solo players, that way it eliminates all the greif. You know someone made this suggestion before and I could be all for that but that would seem to water down the competition somewhat wouldn't you think .?. would everyone flood the squad mode or the solo mode .?. I'm all for competition but I still want to keep most in the same surroundings but just add a few tweaks to help make things even , right now the unevenness is what's killing most modes . If there was a way to make that work though , I would be all for that but with the numbers being so small , I just don't know right now if that would . It's a good suggestion though . Teamwork is really important - said the Tyrannosarus Rex from Kung Fury .
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui MeatBag Disposal Service LOGISTICS 2	Posted - 2015.08.25 19:08:00 - [5] - Quote Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Alcina Nektaria wrote: Best and easiest solution imo is that if someone q's into a pub and isn't in a squad, they get put into a "no squad" match. If they are in a squad and q in, they get put in "squad" match. CCP, add another contract for solo players, that way it eliminates all the greif. Dont even give the optionfor a separate contract system, just add a subroutine that discerns if the player is solo or in a squad, send to appropriate ques from there. Thanks for the love Bro , it's well appreciated and yes , you know I can't stay away from those glorious bans . I'm going to try this time though . Teamwork is really important - said the Tyrannosarus Rex from Kung Fury .
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui MeatBag Disposal Service LOGISTICS 2	Posted - 2015.08.25 19:21:00 - [6] - Quote Spytenn Mallus wrote: You wouldn't care what people ran if they weren't stomping. I know I wouldn't if both teams were somewhat even , not like it is now because you might have and that's a big might , one squad mixed in with a group of random players who just got into the game with the intent of wining , just being competitive and the other team might have two squads or just one but their goal from the start of the match was to PRO / OFC stomp , so their already geared from the word go , that's where the problem starts for me , I'm on the team with random players that MIGHT have that first squad , hell even the second that might have two but definitely the one that means to dominate , now .. that second team ... it won't be fun for me , they will do all the work , zerg the spots and by the time I arrive from laying links , which is now useless because everything is taken , I have nothing to do but redline and I just can't get into that , that's just not me . That first team though , I could actually help them but the fact that the second team is so coordinated and with their gear , it's like fighting a uphill battle but I'm still right there , I can deal with that if their trying but what if that first team can't match the second gear wise and decides to leave because of that ? That's where my problem is , now I can't control that and I'm all for playing how you want but to me , if the teams were both random players , it would make more of a contest . I can't lie , the best games that I have ever played in Dust is when both teams were random players , it just seems like both go all out and do whatever it takes and there is no e-peen wagging , just straight up , hard knocks , dragging out fighting . I love those moments , there just so few and far in between . Teamwork is really important - said the Tyrannosarus Rex from Kung Fury .
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui MeatBag Disposal Service LOGISTICS 2	Posted - 2015.08.25 19:27:00 - [7] - Quote I don't want to eliminate squad play , just to change the game and mix things up so that you won't have well known coordinated teams just killing random players , why not make both teams random , allow time to create squads in the warbarge and see where it goes from there , I would never try to eliminate squad play even if I could and I run solo mostly , I just don't believe in policing the game like that , that's just too much but to create a setting that would generate a much more even setting for a match , I'm all for that and don't forget , you can still play FW and PC and that's where things wouldn't change but for the pub matches , something needs to happen because it's just so predictable now . It's not even fun but I get what your saying Alcina . Teamwork is really important - said the Tyrannosarus Rex from Kung Fury .
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui MeatBag Disposal Service LOGISTICS 2	Posted - 2015.08.25 19:32:00 - [8] - Quote Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Alcina Nektaria wrote: Best and easiest solution imo is that if someone q's into a pub and isn't in a squad, they get put into a "no squad" match. If they are in a squad and q in, they get put in "squad" match. CCP, add another contract for solo players, that way it eliminates all the greif. Dont even give the optionfor a separate contract system, just add a subroutine that discerns if the player is solo or in a squad, send to appropriate ques from there. Thanks for the love Bro , it's well appreciated and yes , you know I can't stay away from those glorious bans . I'm going to try this time though . Its not that your idea is bad, but oretty much everything you've proposed has been proposed multiple times by multiple since MM was finally matched with the team builder and things got werid months ago. The most agreed upon stance currently is MM kinda does work, when people stay in the match and fight. Collectively, we're working on the stay in the match and or fight part. Anything for those? True , true .. I wish I could find a way to help players from leaving matches , the only thing that I could come up with is what's already said .. MM isn't all that bad but for the occasional stompfest but that doesn't happen too often to me to be a factor but I do have a ton of SP's and everything that I use is maxed besides my magsec , many just don't have that working for them and that's what I'm thinking about , I get tired of seeing people leaving matches just like the next person . Your really causing me to think and that's just so dangerous Soldner . Teamwork is really important - said the Tyrannosarus Rex from Kung Fury .
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui MeatBag Disposal Service LOGISTICS 2	Posted - 2015.08.25 20:16:00 - [9] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: deezy dabest wrote: Match making actually works INCREDIBLY well. The issue is no incentive to fight leading the players who Scotty has deemed worthy of supporting the team to either grab a few kills in a crap suit and disappear or leave battle. Once those players disappear or have left battle already the few newbies are left facing a full team who is now in full on farm mode. Look at how leaving battle did not become truly epidemic until the new match making was introduced. That was because the try hards were actually facing the try hards causing them to risk their precious KDRs for no real reward at all. If there was real reward for killing proto and a lack of reward for killing MLT suit after MLT suit in a proto suit then matchmaking would be one of the better things you have ever seen. This is why I have and will continue to propose a keep what you kill system and call all of you that ***** about match making morons because the real problem is right in front of you but you choose to ignore it for fear of getting called a broke scrub or to git gud because the rich players would rather the rest of the community be held down by broken mechanics. Very interesting , I have never seen this before and I am glad to have it brought to my attention . Can't argue with anything that was said . Teamwork is really important - said the Tyrannosarus Rex from Kung Fury .
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui MeatBag Disposal Service LOGISTICS 2	Posted - 2015.08.25 20:31:00 - [10] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: Myself and a few others have attempted to bring this issue to everyone's attention since just after the new match making system was applied. Unfortunately even using the word payout results in nothing but git guds because people are either unable to see it or have so much ISK they would really rather not see things work properly for everyone else. Me personally , I don't see anything wrong with what you and your associates said or would be trying to do , in fact .. I would be more then willing to back this proposal as well . It just makes so much sense it's mind blowing that more wouldn't back this , on top of the fact that it would incentivize matches which is something that's desperately needed IMO and those who already have deep pockets wouldn't be effected in the least and it would put more funds in those with lesser gear who kill PRO players , if that's what your referring to ... hell , that's a win , win for all and really some wouldn't mind the gear factor if there was more of a reward for the effort . This just makes too much sense . Probably why I didn't think about it . This must have happened some time ago while I was banned , wonder why I didn't see it ? Teamwork is really important - said the Tyrannosarus Rex from Kung Fury .

Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui MeatBag Disposal Service LOGISTICS 2	Posted - 2015.08.25 21:02:00 - [11] - Quote Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Deezy, do you know whatevrr happened to SirManBoys proposed payout changes thread? It seems to have died in a fire and i cant find it. I think the higher ups explained why that kwyk-system was backburnered for now, and did a goofy payout formula. Think its time to incorporate whatever ratattis 'salvage' idea is into this. Should have known that you were brainstorming with him , this is a good concept and should be implemented . I don't mind if you use this thread to rehash your platform , it would be an honor . Create another and I would be right there to back you guys . This is what I'm talking about , creative ideals for the betterment of the game . I'm all for that . Teamwork is really important - said the Tyrannosarus Rex from Kung Fury .