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Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.26 12:34:00 - [1] - Quote I am watching this thread to see how it progresses, and what the community cobbles together as acceptable mechanics. As I don't pay a lot of attention to EWAR in my day-to-day gameplay as I run sentinel and commando suits, I ask that people bear with me when I ask seemingly "stupid questions," whether out of ignorance, or because if I feel the need to quote or cite your contributions, I would like to insure that I am not misrepresenting the ideas here. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.26 13:21:00 - [2] - Quote CeeJ Mantis wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I am watching this thread to see how it progresses, and what the community cobbles together as acceptable mechanics. As I don't pay a lot of attention to EWAR in my day-to-day gameplay as I run sentinel and commando suits, I ask that people bear with me when I ask seemingly "stupid questions," whether out of ignorance, or because if I feel the need to quote or cite your contributions, I would like to insure that I am not misrepresenting the ideas here. As a sentinel and commando, I run 1 precision amp. If you do the ewar math, then you get very interesting results. Helps a lot with HMG v other heavies tobsee them first, and further augments my ability to be a plc marksman. A single one (needs to be complex on a commando) is all you need. Give it a try. I have. I was never able to extend the detection circle past the center ring. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.26 15:09:00 - [3] - Quote Chevrons are more useful to chasing fast-movers. Fatsuits are a bit... I don't know how to describe how useless the radar is on a fatsuit. To the point I had to re-train myself to look at the radar when I started up the assault tree. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.26 18:24:00 - [4] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I don't know how to describe how useless the radar is on a fatsuit. Perhaps when solo. Tell your repslave to run a Precision Enhancer or three. Better yet, tell him to run a precision enhanced GalLogi. I don't have a repslave. It's how I learned to love the cal and minsents. However, my habits are off-topic. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.27 15:21:00 - [5] - Quote Also adipem, if you successfully hit your target let the target ping. So that plus your aim down sight statement. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.27 19:58:00 - [6] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Llast 326 wrote: I believe WP by type can be limited with a cap. Intel assists for spotting could be limited to prevent mass accrual in Blob scenarios. Assuming I am correct that they can be capped. No telling. But I definitely wouldn't want to see dampened units painted to TacNet every time someone sprays hipfire at them. If panic spray negates your damps, why not run HP in the first place? Like everyone else. This would be a major blow to stealth and backstab gameplay. If someone's shooting at you, odds are your stealth play has failed anyway. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.27 20:58:00 - [7] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Llast 326 wrote: I believe WP by type can be limited with a cap. Intel assists for spotting could be limited to prevent mass accrual in Blob scenarios. Assuming I am correct that they can be capped. No telling. But I definitely wouldn't want to see dampened units painted to TacNet every time someone sprays hipfire at them. If panic spray negates your damps, why not run HP in the first place? Like everyone else. This would be a major blow to stealth and backstab gameplay. If someone's shooting at you, odds are your stealth play has failed anyway. Say I spot you and flank you, taking care to run wide to avoid detection. Say I stalk you and wait until you're all alone and distracted. Still undetected. Say I sneak up right behind you, evading your LoS and everyone else's. Say I then shotgun you in the back, undetected up until the moment of attack. You're an HMG Heavy. What happens next? And how did I fail at stealth play? I would be the one flagged on your team's tacnet at that point. However, were I to catch you inbound and start pinging HMG bullets off your ass before the shotty, you would ping on mine. And the only shotgun you really have a chance to live through in your scenario comes in two varieties: Militia and catastrophic hit detection failure. Unless you're quad plated. With a logi leash. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.27 21:16:00 - [8] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: A shotgunner has to hit the average sentinel 3-4 times to kill it. The sentinel has plenty of time to pirouette and panic spray, and our would-be stealthy Scout is absolutely going to take damage. Under your system, he'd be painted to TacNet despite having taken every precaution and made every effort not to be. This is a fact and you know it. Why you're playing the fool is beyond me. If panic spray paints targets, you're going to see another drop in Scout performance. Might not be bad idea to buff Knives and Shotguns in advance. I'm not playing the fool. I don't brick out sentinels because I never have a logi. Come to think of it I don't even brick out sentinels even if I have a logi. Bluntly, you can stop accusing me of "Playing the fool" unless you want me to start calling you "Adipem Ad Hominem" whenever we talk. Just because YOU think things always work a certain way, doesn't mean they do, any more than I'm magically right about everything. Because I know when you say "average sentinel" you mean "Bricked Amsent" I know damn well how many shotgun hits each of the sentinels can take to the back with what fits. I've been ganked with them enough times that I usually get a good count. and bluntly if you have bullets bouncing off of you, you've been detected. When you stop having bullets bounce off you, you might no longer be detected. Assuming everything that hits you is automatically panic fire is ridiculous. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.27 21:40:00 - [9] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: So, you're doing it wrong. How is that my problem? Every time I shotgun a sentinel in the back, I fully expect to take damage from him. That's how common it is. The same goes for tanked Commandos and Assaults. You simply can't kill 'em fast enough. You suggested a tweak to my proposed idea. I'm telling you specifically how and why I think your tweak wouldn't work. Take my feedback or leave it. Don't get all butthurt and defensive, and don't waste my time with edge-case scenarios. Don't tell me I'm playing the fool because I don't do things your way. I don't really care what you think is "doing it wrong." The cal and minsent don't take shotgun shots well at all, and the galsent is hit or miss because of it's odd slot layout. The commando would have to be damn near bricked and assaults turning on you I'm going to chalk up to shoddy hit detection, something frequently reported in reference to the weapon line. And bluntly Firing your weapon should flash you on the tacnet IMHO, but that's not on my list of suggestions I'm actually going to make. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.27 23:49:00 - [10] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: I admit that I forgot about the above post. I'd assumed you were playing the fool and that was wrong of me. Apologies out of the way, I'd like to think that as a CPM Member you'd opine from an informed position. I'm trying to help you get there. So quit being a combative arse and let me help you become less EWAR ignorant. My official, relevant opine is that always wins/always loses binary equation needs to be killed with fire with something that is affected not only by fit but by action matters. Besides, I'm more interested in relevant factors that might affect interplay than much else. Crouching would reduce scannable surface area, and thus might give a slight reduction. firing a high-energy weapon (like a magnetically accelerated ball of ambiplasma) could be used as justification for being a bit more visible. Being directly flagged by crosshairs (I agree, not just because you happen to feather a gunsight across someone for a fraction of a second. DIRECTLY attacking someone (falls under crosshair lingering on the target for more than a stray bullet impact, waving the crosshairs across the target wildly shouldn't count) would speed it up. Light and visibility not so much, because the dropsuits auto-adjust to lighting, and the Mk.1 Eyeball should be relied on to differentiate a scout from a rock. Radar and such wouldn't be fooled by lighting conditions. Environmental conditions could affect it. the toxic mood could artificially lower the average profile of each suit due to the amount of caustic crap floating in the air. The act of firing a forge gun should probably just light up the firer on the radar, but that might also make it too easy to kill them quickly. things that interact and make the battlefield more dynamic that might help pokey with numbers/be reasonably useful for dynamic interplay are my interest though. The venom spitting arguments are what I do for fun. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.28 07:52:00 - [11] - Quote I am of the opinion that being able to set up a situation where there is no chance of survival/reprisal is bad. That kind of thing removes the value of skill/reflex entirely. Binary scenarios are not interesting. Sentinels always dying if you get behind them isn't interesting. Scouts being instantly dead if you happen to see them isn't interesting. (No I don't actually believe scouts should auto-die when a 3-year old farts too close) Scouts that can never be detected before they're in your back arc isn't interesting. Having one combo suit and active scanner that no one can beat ever isn't interesting. For every strength there needs to be a window to overcome that strength based upon skill. That's how I look at this mental exercise. If we can introduce something less binary and static, I'm all for jumping on it and squeezing it till the juice dries up. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.28 09:40:00 - [12] - Quote Nicely put valroth but I think we're deeply off-topic. Shall we move back to the original topic? WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.30 12:13:00 - [13] - Quote Right now what are the biggest failure points of the scanning side, and what are the biggest failure points of the dampening side? WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.09.12 07:51:00 - [14] - Quote How much value would there be in giving a flat number addition to range amps? For example 5m/10m/15m range enhancement rather than a percentage modifier to a baseline tiny scan range? WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.09.12 08:11:00 - [15] - Quote Robert Conway wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: How much value would there be in giving a flat number addition to range amps? For example 5m/10m/15m range enhancement rather than a percentage modifier to a baseline tiny scan range? I thought math was hard? Brah. It is. For the OP of that particular thread. Oh wait... who was that OP? Was looking to see who was smart enough to realize I was talking about the person claiming you cannot break core reps. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.09.12 09:44:00 - [16] - Quote You can still see what he said in quotes. Redaction doesn't remove/change those. Also off-topic and not relevant to ewar discussion. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.09.12 11:50:00 - [17] - Quote It's not a question of wrong or right. Even a sht idea can carry the seed of a concept worth pursuing. So really the only complete ass kind of suggestion is deliberately crafted solely to cripple another playstyle or intended to *** off as many people as possible. EWAR suffers from an uneven application that allows one type of unit to completely outperform all comers with the others being ok. But when you nerf the mechanic that allows that disparity the only thing that winds up happening is the lower tier units get shoved off the cliff. Every unit should be able to have SOME use and utility in EWAR. It should not be the sole purview of scouts (this is a player opinion not CPM agenda) but scouts should definitely not be pushed off the top spot by any changes. The problems as I see it are the stagnant meta situation on scouts and ewar. Scouts, rather like tanks, fatties ans assault suits have ranged at any given point from "win butan" to "why bother?" WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.09.12 13:59:00 - [18] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: One big problem with balancing ewar (passive at least) is the binary nature of the scans. Depending on the numbers, you either always show up, or you never do. This is why passive scans have been at the extremes of "I see everyone" to "I see no one". The 3 scan rings are a band-aid at best. What would really make balance easier is if we could have actions give modifiers to scan profile. Crouch walking lowers the profile, while shooting increases it. IT would make for a more dynamic system: I can't see the scout unless he begins sprinting and increases his profile, and a Min/AmScout have a chance of beating scans if they play tactically and crouch-walk as opposed to run. I think Rattati said this can't happen, but honestly EWAR will always be OP or UP until we have more ways to find/beat the scans rather than only 2 numbers interacting. As far as range extenders, giving them a flat number makes them useful on all suits, but could easily have the AmScout becoming the new CalScout of old. Remember the cal scout has a range bonus inherent and can fit precision mods to match the amscout for said scan utility. So the amarr and caldari would be roughly similar for detection capacity. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.09.12 14:23:00 - [19] - Quote Interesting idea. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.09.12 14:42:00 - [20] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Honestly I think the calscout and amscout should switch bonuses. It makes sense lore wise: Cal would want to be able to find the sneaky GalScouts and the AmScout would want to see the fast MinScout coming from farther away, giving them more time to react. Plus it requires them to sacrifice their main tank in order to capitalize on their bonus. Agreed in concept. Though with today's active scans as they are, losing the damp bonus would require CalScout to commit 2 of 2 low slots to dampeners to remain off-radar. It can't hunt if it's permascanned. Wouldn't lose the damp bonus. Alena was suggesting swapping the range and precision bonuses out. Not a total bonus swap. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.09.12 15:42:00 - [21] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Honestly I think the calscout and amscout should switch bonuses. It makes sense lore wise: Cal would want to be able to find the sneaky GalScouts and the AmScout would want to see the fast MinScout coming from farther away, giving them more time to react. Plus it requires them to sacrifice their main tank in order to capitalize on their bonus. Agreed in concept. Though with today's active scans as they are, losing the damp bonus would require CalScout to commit 2 of 2 low slots to dampeners to remain off-radar. It can't hunt if it's permascanned. Wouldn't lose the damp bonus. Alena was suggesting swapping the range and precision bonuses out. Not a total bonus swap. Google Doc Can't really say one way or another. Nothing stands out as terribly good or bad. First impression falls somewhere between slight improvement and zero sum game. Is now a good time to gripe about the anemic-ass ranges? I'm still not comprehending why you have a 120m radar and only up to 40m of detection (the inner ring) WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.09.14 02:57:00 - [22] - Quote Unless we see some actual usage statistics, and average kills per spawn, quoting market data is wildly unhelpful. If we lost all the EZ mode FOTM jerks but the regulars stuck around and still devastate, then that would say quite a lot about the class. But market data alone, in a vacuum is next to useless. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.

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