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Moochie Cricket
Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback
1
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Posted - 2015.08.20 15:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
-Remove shield recharge delay from standard shield extenders -Add shield modules with much higher hp values but a very large shield recharge delay penalty -Add shield module with much lower hp values but give bonus to recharge delay and/or regen speed
Caldari Tribute Montage
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Alena Ventrallis
Commando Perkone Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2015.08.20 19:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
I think just lowering the shield delays themselves will suffice, but there definitely needs to be a sort of ferroscale shield extender with less hp and no penalty.
Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
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Megaman Trigger
OSG Planetary Operations
463
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Posted - 2015.08.20 20:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:I think just lowering the shield delays themselves will suffice, but there definitely needs to be a sort of ferroscale shield extender with less hp and no penalty.
And a Reactive Shield with even less HP but boosts regen a little?
Purifier. First Class.
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Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.08.20 21:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
Just buff energisers and rechargers. |
Carmine Lotte
Talon Havocs
15
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Posted - 2015.08.20 22:52:00 -
[5] - Quote
All it needs is an increase to Caldari base recharge and maybe remove shiled depleted delay. |
Chosokabe Ite
Shields Of The State
98
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Posted - 2015.08.20 23:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:I think just lowering the shield delays themselves will suffice, but there definitely needs to be a sort of ferroscale shield extender with less hp and no penalty.
Maybe resistance amplifiers?
Basic: Reduces shield damage taken by 5%
Enhanced: 15% or 10%
Complex: 25% or 15%
Could these work? |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
13
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Posted - 2015.08.21 17:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote:Just buff energisers and rechargers. ^
Probably wouldn't hurt to nerf armor a tad as well.
CPM Sgt Kirk - On Community
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Sicerly Yaw
Corrosive Synergy No Context
876
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Posted - 2015.08.21 21:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Varoth Drac wrote:Just buff energisers and rechargers. ^ Probably wouldn't hurt to nerf armor a tad as well.
actually it would, armor is actually not in the best sate either without a logi or rep tank its pretty much bleh but compared to armor it does a whole lot better
my premise would be to buff both shields more then armor as they lack eHP and regen that can only be increased by using a fair amount of rechargers/energizers which makes you have even less tank as well as having higher fitting costs compared to armor mods
as for armor passive regen stats need to be increased a tad bit and speed penalties need to be looked at and I would even suggest moving reps to high slots perhaps add more speed penalties to reps as well
I would like to see both shields and armor be good at stand alone fights rather then always having to rely on a logi to stick to them
with lower amounts of high slots especially on suits that have high eHP such as the sentinel reactive armor mods and logis would become more useful and for assault suits and even scouts would have more viability by themselves while not having to rely as much on logis
I would suggest bringing shield recharge rates up to around 50 possibly more for cal assaults while passive armor reps should be around 8 for gal assaults and with armor reps being in high slots they could rep for a max of about 40hp per second without any delays but shiled suits with recharges could easily reach triple digits where it becomes really useful for hit and run tactics as well as very useful at range and with the increased passive reps for armor I would suggest bringing shiled thresholds to at least 10 if not more perhaps even as high as 15, these changes would make the battlefield a whole lot more dynamic with players actually being more aggressive but staying tactical as each suit would have more potential then they currently do
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Carmine Lotte
Talon Havocs
15
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Posted - 2015.08.21 22:03:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sicerly Yaw wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Varoth Drac wrote:Just buff energisers and rechargers. ^ Probably wouldn't hurt to nerf armor a tad as well. actually it would, armor is actually not in the best sate either without a logi or rep tank its pretty much bleh but compared to armor it does a whole lot better my premise would be to buff both shields more then armor as they lack eHP and regen that can only be increased by using a fair amount of rechargers/energizers which makes you have even less tank as well as having higher fitting costs compared to armor mods as for armor passive regen stats need to be increased a tad bit and speed penalties need to be looked at and I would even suggest moving reps to high slots perhaps add more speed penalties to reps as well I would like to see both shields and armor be good at stand alone fights rather then always having to rely on a logi to stick to them with lower amounts of high slots especially on suits that have high eHP such as the sentinel reactive armor mods and logis would become more useful and for assault suits and even scouts would have more viability by themselves while not having to rely as much on logis I would suggest bringing shield recharge rates up tyo around 50 possibly more for cal assaults while passive armor reps should be around 8 for gal assaults and with armor reps being in high slots they could rep for a max of about 40hp per second without any delays but shiled suits with recharges could easily reach triple digits where it becomes really useful for hit and run tactics as well as very useful at range and with the increased passive reps for armor I would suggest bringing shiled thresholds to at least 10 if not more perhaps even as high as 15, these changes would make the battlefield a whole lot more dynamic with players actually being more aggressive but staying tactical as each suit would have more potential then they currently do Armor is more flexible than Shield's in Dust but the Speed penalties need to apply to the amount of armor a suit has. |
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
12
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Posted - 2015.08.22 02:27:00 -
[10] - Quote
Why not just take the Repair Tool and create a Remote Shield Repair Tool out of it? Just change the colors and adjust the values to target the shields instead of the armor for remote repairing.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
13
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Posted - 2015.08.22 02:35:00 -
[11] - Quote
Sicerly Yaw wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Varoth Drac wrote:Just buff energisers and rechargers. ^ Probably wouldn't hurt to nerf armor a tad as well. actually it would, armor is actually not in the best sate ... It's in a better state than shields, and it's in a better state than every other low-slot module. If the goal is "a more dynamic battlefield", why not move away from HP > All Else?
CPM Sgt Kirk - On Community
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Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
12
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Posted - 2015.08.22 02:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Sicerly Yaw wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Varoth Drac wrote:Just buff energisers and rechargers. ^ Probably wouldn't hurt to nerf armor a tad as well. actually it would, armor is actually not in the best sate ... It's in a better state than shields, and it's in a better state than every other low-slot module. What pays more bang per buck than plates? What module type is more widely used?
More bang per buck? Cardiac Regulators :D
Thanks for all the support guys, let's fix Dust 514
:D
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DRT 99
RAT PATROL INC. The Empire of New Eden
545
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Posted - 2015.08.22 06:03:00 -
[13] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:More bang per buck? Cardiac Regulators :D
kincats make you 'get where youre going' faster but dont do that for my logi-ho so thats a no go for me. |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
10
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Posted - 2015.08.22 07:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:I think just lowering the shield delays themselves will suffice, but there definitely needs to be a sort of ferroscale shield extender with less hp and no penalty. This.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Ahkhomi Cypher
0uter.Heaven
1
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Posted - 2015.08.22 11:39:00 -
[15] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Why not just take the Repair Tool and create a Remote Shield Repair Tool out of it? Just change the colors and adjust the values to target the shields instead of the armor for remote repairing.
Having a shield rep tool sounds good but depending on how it's done it can also really **** over shield suits also. Why? Armor suits can just stack rep mods and have a shield rep tool on them. So a AmSent can have 40 armor reps + the shield rep tool at the same time. CalSents only having 1 low allows for only 10 armor rep + shield rep tool. I currently run a Galass that reps at 20ish. In theory I'd think that having my passive armor reps happening concurrently with a shield rep logi would be cool. Then id drop a k17. The logi drops a wyro triage hive. Much fuckery.
But ignore me tho. Im just the guy that says "bruh" alot in forum post.
bruh
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Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
12
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Posted - 2015.08.22 13:42:00 -
[16] - Quote
I dislike the notion of simultaneous buffing and nerfing. Balance requires patience and even a simple fix can potentially lead to a positive outcome. Buffing and nerfing at the same time only exacerbates the issue and appeals to that pendulum balancing method offers the impression that it has been over-corrected and we're forced to backtrack. The scalpel is preferable to the sword.
What is certain is that everyone has a different idea on how to fix shields. However, an overall theme and idea is present in each argument and reading between the lines offers a unanimous opinion: Shield recharge capability is suboptimal.
I've tinkered with the concept of shields simply not having a recharge delay, only a depleted recharge delay, so that they can recharge through damage. On paper, it looks optimistic, although practice is different and this is quite an extreme concept. However, it offers merit to reducing shield delays and increasing recharge.
Thanks for all the support guys, let's fix Dust 514
:D
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
13
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Posted - 2015.08.22 15:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:I dislike the notion of simultaneous buffing and nerfing. Balance requires patience and even a simple fix can potentially lead to a positive outcome. Buffing and nerfing at the same time only exacerbates the issue and appeals to that pendulum balancing method offers the impression that it has been over-corrected and we're forced to backtrack. The scalpel is preferable to the sword.
What is certain is that everyone has a different idea on how to fix shields. However, an overall theme and idea is present in each argument and reading between the lines offers a unanimous opinion: Shield recharge capability is suboptimal.
I've tinkered with the concept of shields simply not having a recharge delay, only a depleted recharge delay, so that they can recharge through damage. On paper, it looks optimistic, although practice is different and this is quite an extreme concept. However, it offers merit to reducing shield delays and increasing recharge. Simultaneous buffing and nerfing can work when done carefully; consider the recent changes to movement speed:
Assaults were Nerfed. Logis were Buffed. No pendulum swings were observed. Assaults were Nerfed. Commandos were really Buffed. No pendulum swings were observed.
"CCP cannot simultaneously nerf and buff successfully" is an inaccurate assertion and a poor foundation upon which to build an argument (or attempt to dismiss another's).
What is certain is that Armor Modules are the best-in-class low-slot option. If we buff Shields sufficiently to rival Armor, we'll have an obvious, best-in-class high-slot option. Should we choose this HP > All Else path, we'll end up observing less battlefield diversity rather than more, and a further widening of the performance gap between units which tank or dual-tank and units which do not.
Further, an HP > All Else approach to module balance stands to benefit MedFrames by wider margin than other frames, thanks to their superior slot counts. MedFrames are already outselling all else. We should be looking for ways to bring the dropsuit sales trendlines closer together; not for ways to spread them further apart.
CPM Sgt Kirk - On Community
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
13
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Posted - 2015.08.22 16:41:00 -
[18] - Quote
Afterthought:
Assume Shields were going to be buffed to perform on par with Armor. Increasing fitting requirements of plates would be an excellent way to prevent dual tanking. And why not? Shouldn't best in-class modules cost the most?
CPM Sgt Kirk - On Community
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Carmine Lotte
Talon Havocs
15
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Posted - 2015.08.22 16:57:00 -
[19] - Quote
What about a Shield Tool that repairs you by your recharge stats making it an equipment that works with Recharges and energizers. That should slow any shield Rep on armor Suits that don't rely on Recharges/energizers. |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
13
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Posted - 2015.08.22 17:04:00 -
[20] - Quote
Carmine Lotte wrote:What about a Shield Tool that repairs you by your recharge stats making it an equipment that works with Recharges and energizers. That should slow any shield Rep on armor Suits that don't rely on Recharges/energizers. I'd run it by Cross and the Triage Ward in the Locker Room. Could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure consensus there is that a shield rep tool would create new imbalance.
CPM Sgt Kirk - On Community
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Alena Ventrallis
Commando Perkone Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2015.08.22 17:43:00 -
[21] - Quote
Chosokabe Ite wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:I think just lowering the shield delays themselves will suffice, but there definitely needs to be a sort of ferroscale shield extender with less hp and no penalty. Maybe resistance amplifiers? Basic: Reduces shield damage taken by 5% Enhanced: 15% or 10% Complex: 25% or 15% Could these work?
there's some sort of coding barrier preventing resistance modules for infantry.
Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
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Piercing Serenity
Immortal Guides Learning Alliance
1
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Posted - 2015.08.22 22:55:00 -
[22] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Afterthought: Assume Shields were going to be buffed to perform on par with Armor. Wouldn't increasing fitting requirements of plates be an excellent (if not, the only) way to prevent dual tanking? Shouldn't best in-class modules cost the most?
This is already the case, If you look at the the fitting requirements of shield extenders:
Complex Shield Extender: 54 CPU / 11PG / 66HP Complex Armor Plate: 37 CPU / 12 PG / 135 HP Complex Ferroscale Plates: 23 / 8 / 75 HP Complex Reactive Plates: 25 / 8 / 60 HP
Source: http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Armor_Plates
I'm of the opinion that shields were given fitting values after armor very early in development for the purpose of dissuading dual tanking. However, this leaves shield suits in a bad spot, as they just don't have the PG to fit everything that you need.
With Complex reactive plates essentially offering the same HP for a huge CPU discount (and a moderate PG discount) I couldn't possibly advocate for a shield fitting cost increase, even if the modules were buffed. To be honest, I think that armor mods would need to get a fitting requirement increase (PG specifically) first before I would be okay with that change to shield mods (CPU specifically). After that, I would expect dual tanking to be curbed by the fact that armor suits would need to fit PG upgrades to run their armor set-ups, and shield suit would need to fit CPU upgrades to run their shield fits.
In this way dual tanking is both very difficult due to fitting, as well as unattractive because you can run a stronger thematic suit by devoting your off slots to get more fitting space.
"For people who don't really do S**T, ya'll really doing the most"
Lv. 1 Forum Warrior
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Moochie Cricket
Fatal Absolution
1
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Posted - 2015.08.25 19:18:00 -
[23] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Why not just take the Repair Tool and create a Remote Shield Repair Tool out of it? Just change the colors and adjust the values to target the shields instead of the armor for remote repairing. I was hoping shields would become as viable as armor (in terms of flexibility through mixed-use modules) rather than copying armor mechanics such as a shield rep tool which does the same thing an armor rep tool does. However, give me a shield rep tool which is different (maybe starts shield regen on all friendly suits within x meters, visually demonstrated through a colored flux animation, and balanced through the use of a cool down timer) and we are talking.
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