DUST Search - Scrambler Rifle Micro-Charging [Test/Video]

Varoth Drac wrote:

Aeon, if you manage to do more testing, please would you test scrambler rifle dps by firing at a close target by spamming the trigger (realistically) and then using the damage done and time taken to calculate actual dps? Please also do this with an assault variant rifle (preferably CR, RR or AR) and a TacAR for comparison.

If you were able to fit this into your tests it would be awesome.

I don't know if you have an unusually fast or slow trigger finger, but it would be really interesting to see actual in game dps for semi auto weapons.

I suspect the scrambler rifles will do the most dps.

I feel that if the scrambler rifle were truly OP, more people would use it. I know this thread isn't calling for a nerf. I just think it would be a shame if the gun did get nerfed without the whole picture being taken into account. Rattati has the spawn efficiency numbers, which would probably be the most telling. If it does need a nerf, these investigations will help determine what to do. I suspect toning down damage or rate of fire threshold would be better balances, rather than messing with charge mechanics.


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Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 12	Posted - 2015.08.20 05:14:00 - [1] - Quote Thaddeus Reynolds persuaded me to help test out a little myth that has been apparently circulating and we decided to hit the books (or controller as it were) and get to the bottom of this. Now, with the majority of my tests I use the Scientific Method, which anyone who's gone to grade school should know this but if you don't then here's a flow-chart provided by ScienceBuddies: http://www.cdn.sciencebuddies.org/Files/5084/7/2013-updated_scientific-method-steps_v6_noheader.png So, we started off with our preliminary question and focal point of the test: "Is the Scrambler Rifle doing the correct amount of damage to Armor?". We did some background research on plausible theories, the two prominent ones being that either A) The weapon's damage is messed up. B) The damage profile of laser weaponry is messed up. Forming a hypothesis for both and then proceeding to testing procedures, we used a Flux Grenade to rid the suit of shields and let it rest at full armor, firing a single shot each time and then cross checking between frames on the recorded video for armor values at the moment the shot hit as to not factor in repair rate as a variable. Here's our results: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CgTyBQgp5PLRG0wWFlRUitr9O0Gqawn-yue5iGpeb9s/edit?usp=sharing We noticed that the Scrambler Rifle was indeed doing more damage than it was supposed to, stat-wise, so we needed to control against Hypothesis B: The damage profile theory. To do this we needed another laser weapon to check and see if the damage profile was busted. Insert: Assault Scrambler Pistol. It did -exactly- the amount of damage it's supposed to, stat-wise, which means that the damage profile was not flawed, but the Scrambler Rifle may very well have been. Initially our theory was that the excess damage was caused by micro-charging: the slight depression in the finger when firing. The miniscule amount of time it takes for you to press the R1 button, and lift your finger, is enough to cause the weapon to think it is charging and fire a shot that does more damage than slated stat-wise. After a few tests, and a roll-back of the video footage, we can confirm that this is absolutely the case and is very easy to replicate. See Video Footage: https://youtu.be/ub69fHGFFNg So, for those of you with a fat or heavy trigger finger, congratulations! You actually have a genetic advantage with the Scrambler Rifle in Dust 514 Thanks for all the support guys, let's fix Dust 514 :D
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 12	Posted - 2015.08.20 05:21:00 - [2] - Quote Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Always glad to help test out DUST SCIENCE! Also...the micro-charges could explain the anomalous heat buildup I was seeing during the tests I did of the Scrambler Rifle Overheats at different Rates of Fire. To what degree this modifies heat buildup though will be difficult to measure without a more accurate/precise heat buildup indicator to measure from. Well, we know that heat buildup is on a per-second rather than per-shot basis, so simply holding the trigger down for any duration is adding heat to the weapon. If you can pin-point those minute amounts of time between each trigger pull with consistency and reliability (you -WILL- need a modded controller to test this) than you can perhaps pinpoint the numbers more accurately :D Thanks for all the support guys, let's fix Dust 514 :D
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 12	Posted - 2015.08.20 11:04:00 - [3] - Quote CHET CHEWS wrote: My head hurts, someone please explain to me what Aeon did here Pretty much how Tesfa explained it. 'Pulling the trigger' as it were will cause the Scrambler Rifle to charge the shot by a miniscule amount unless you are -lightning quick- on the button press and it results, more often than not in my case, in higher damage than what is stated on the stats screen. This isn't to say that the Scrambler Rifle is OP, should be buffed/nerfed, or anything of the sort. It is just an interesting little quirk we picked up on when testing something completely different! I love science :D Shadowed Cola wrote: i've found that semi-charged shots run damage un-proptionately to a full charged shot. But by how much does a semi-charge actually build up the damage? I didn't do extensive testing but from what we saw we were looking at a 10 - 15% increase in damage just on normal trigger pulling per shot. If I have time today I might do more and see what kind of results we come up with many more 'rounds' being fired down range in rapid sequence and calculate the damage values between each shot to see what sort of damage we're doing in a panic state. Thanks for all the support guys, let's fix Dust 514 :D
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 12	Posted - 2015.08.21 02:00:00 - [4] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Aeon, if you manage to do more testing, please would you test scrambler rifle dps by firing at a close target by spamming the trigger (realistically) and then using the damage done and time taken to calculate actual dps? Please also do this with an assault variant rifle (preferably CR, RR or AR) and a TacAR for comparison. If you were able to fit this into your tests it would be awesome. I don't know if you have an unusually fast or slow trigger finger, but it would be really interesting to see actual in game dps for semi auto weapons. I suspect the scrambler rifles will do the most dps. I feel that if the scrambler rifle were truly OP, more people would use it. I know this thread isn't calling for a nerf. I just think it would be a shame if the gun did get nerfed without the whole picture being taken into account. Rattati has the spawn efficiency numbers, which would probably be the most telling. If it does need a nerf, these investigations will help determine what to do. I suspect toning down damage or rate of fire threshold would be better balances, rather than messing with charge mechanics. That's reasonable. I'll see what I can do when I get back home tonight :) Thanks for all the support guys, let's fix Dust 514 :D
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 12	Posted - 2015.08.21 04:35:00 - [5] - Quote Okay. So, tested to see what happens in rapid fire or 'Panic Mode' conditions in which I accidentally killed Thaddeus Reynolds a few times during testing (sorry bro!) in order to illustrate what sort of increased damage occurs from Micro-Charging when firing rapidly. You can see the results of that in Sheet 2 on the page which I will link again here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CgTyBQgp5PLRG0wWFlRUitr9O0Gqawn-yue5iGpeb9s/edit?usp=sharing VERY VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU READ THIS PART AS IT ANTICIPATES SOME ARGUMENTATIVE VIEWS I know a lot of you will be saying "but repair rate" - so we anticipated for that and factored it in using the in-game HP readout rather than mathematics. This was to prevent from rounding errors in the mathematics and the results were true to what happened in game. I also know that a lot of you will be thinking, "Okay, well why does it say you shot nine 'rounds' but only recorded seven entries in some of the tests". His suit could only take eight rounds of fire (though statistically speaking it is -SUPPOSED- to take nine) before dying so there were some instances in which he lived (when I fired seven rounds) and some instances when I kept firing after he was already dead (when I fired nine rounds). Beyond that, any more than seven rounds would not have provided any usable data as his HP was so low that the next round would have killed him -no matter what-, so we opted to simply put 'DEAD' as the result of that. VERY VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU READ THE ABOVE AS IT ANTICIPATES SOME ARGUMENTATIVE VIEWS Now, down to the facts of the test: Mathematically speaking, his suit had enough armor (449) to survive nine rounds from my Quafe Scrambler Rifle as it is only supposed to do 54.6 damage per shot, even with the Warbarge Damage Bonus. Due to micro-charging when firing the Scrambler Rifle, he could only survive eight, as each round did higher than expected damage. The AMOUNT of extra damage ranged from 4-7% - the equivalent of having a free enhanced or complex damage mod. So, yes, there is some weight to stating that the Scrambler Rifle does more damage than it is supposed to - but whether or not that is over-powered or should be nerfed is debatable and argumentative. We're not here to say that, we're only here to provide the facts behind the weapon and the very simple fact is that due to Micro-Charging, YES, the Scrambler Rifle does more damage than it shows on paper. Thanks for all the support guys, let's fix Dust 514 :D
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 12	Posted - 2015.08.21 07:29:00 - [6] - Quote Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: @Deezy Debest A fairly large variance appeared when I used my device on the PS3 again, can't wait for your test data to be recorded...to see if this is just a problem on my end or something common). The Data recorded is also on the spreadsheet Aeon Posted, it seems to suggest that damage scales linearly with the charge, but more data is necessary to test this. Edit: It's also worth it to note that it appears to generate additional heat based on past data; however, more data needs to be gathered on the subject Also...yes there is massive variance when I use the turbo functions, and I'm not sure what causes it, but I test the scripts on the PC to ensure that they are outputting correctly...the ScR is the only weapon where measured data has any noticeable variance at all. I'm wondering if client <-> server latency has anything to do with it. Thanks for all the support guys, let's fix Dust 514 :D