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![[Veteran_Doctor Spankit]](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/dust-avatar-128.png "[Veteran_Doctor Spankit]")
[Veteran_Doctor Spankit]
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Posted - 2012.06.13 00:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
BEFORE YOU FLAME: READ HOW I EXPLAIN THAT BOARDING SHOULD ONLY HAPPEN IF YOU WERE GOING TO LOSE YOUR SHIP ANYWAYS.
- There has to be a worthwhile reason to do this. It has to be useful enough that people outside of boredom/griefing will attempt to do this, or its not worth doing.
- There needs to be sensitivity to pilots flying expensive ships, that this doesn't become abused by griefers. If your going to board a ship, there has to be consequences for failing. i.e. no suicide boarding.
anything *** starred, will be either optional/exceptions or just ideas that might be cool, but non essential or over complicated to the overall system.
BEFORE BOARDING: Equipment
- A ship would need to have a module to forcefully enter a ship. It would either require a high power slot, or an appropriate for the ship sized boarding rig (medium, large, capital etc)
- Reinforcement tickets will be low or medium power slots, that are lost on boarding. They would be "transport boxes" The more of the boxes, the more tickets, with a diminishing return for multiple boxes.
- *** Skill/modules would influence what type of dropsuits would be available for the attacker. Considering heavier armour is a close quarters thing, it should be a lot of skill points to unlock the modules for heavy armour. The defending pilot should have a very low multiplier skill for boarding defense.
CONDITIONS FOR BOARDING
- Obviously Null sec, (otherwise concord would come and board the offending ship)
- Defending ship would need its shields down, below 20% (to account for recharging shields) and the hull would need to be exposed (armour would need to have been punctured.... 30-60% damage?)
- The attacking ship would drop its shields on its approach
- a minimum distance the attacking ship would need to be to start the boarding attempt. (skill reduces the distance)
If the boarding ship can successfully "dock" their ship, without being destroyed, the attacking ship will be considered 'boarded". Once boarding has been successful, both ships become untargetable.
During this time, the defending player has to make a choice to try and save his ship, and defend it, or surrender it. He will know how many tickets the attacker has (so if the boarding ship forgot to bring any troops.... he wont be bluffed) If he surrenders it, he escapes in a pod, the attacker gains control of the ship instantly,and defender receives the normal insurance money. The attacking ship is now empty and can be reclaimed under normal EVE rules. (I don't know EVE well enough to know if they can make it so that the defender that lost can't just jump into the attacker's ship)
If the defending pilot chooses to fight, then a contract is created, and will begin at a set time. This gives the defender time to secure a corp he trusts, as well as prepare a rescue fleet for when the ships are back target-able.
The defender has a set amount of tickets, based upon the ship he is in. Bigger the ship, the more tickets.
The DUST SIDE
A dust corp will take a contract for defending/attacking the ship as any other contract. The defender/attacker can choose as normal who can take the contract, and this will all be done in a set time limit. Failure to resolve the contract on either end, will result in the servers choosing a random corp for the mission.
WIN Conditions
Attackers:
- Defenders tickets/troops are all killed
- bridge is held for 1 minute (give or take some time)
Defenders:
- all attacking troops are destroyed, and tickets are empty.
- attackers have unprotected spawns so stall tactics wont work
- **two release sites that eject the attackers if controlled?**
NOTE: There is infinite possibilities for secondary objectives, or alternate win conditions. The idea is to K.I.S.S.
Defender tickets are determined by ship size.
***modified by skill "boarding defense"
Attacker tickets determined by ship size/modules
****drop suits will be determined either by pilot skill/modules, possibly with defender having full drop suit selection by default, or it can be determined by dust mercs having boarding SPECIFIC drop suits (to minimize the natural advantage of heavy dropsuits/weapons.***
RISK / REWARD reasoning.
Attacker:
The attacker's incentive to board, is to get the ship instead of getting scrap metal. All the modules/weapons and the ship in tact. Not to mention bragging rights. The risk is, you are vulnerable while you attempt this. As well, even if you do take the enemy ship, if you are not supported, the ship will either be taken right back... or you will be destroyed/podded when the enemy warps in support ships for when the battle is over.
If you had a ship down to the health required to board it... the time it would take to board, not to mention the firepower you could of had if you had regular weapons, would have resulted in an easy kill. In this system:
IF YOU CAN GET IN A POSITION TO BOARD, CHANCES ARE, YOU WOULD HAVE POPPED THEM ANYWAY. This is a risky maneuver that results in much higher returns/bragging rights then normal.
and finally: boarding modules are not cheap!
DEFENDERS:
If you are group ganked... you would have lost your ship anyway. In this... you have a small chance of knowing your going to be boarded, and attempting to destroy the vulnerable boarding ship, with superior defending DUST mercs. And then, you can get revenge, because while the battle happens, you can summon assistance, or pay someone to get revenge on your attackers.
In large scale battles, there is one less ship speced out for damage. If they take your ship... they earned it by not being
Ships like titans would require a certain size of ship to board it.
DUST MERCS
The dust mercs job is simple. Accept the contract, and use boarding specific drop suits that are more balanced for close quarters. Maybe this is a perfect place to nerf the bunny hopping :D |
[Veteran_Doctor Spankit]
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Posted - 2012.06.13 00:34:00 -
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I would like to note, any TL:DR, or variations, agree to buy me a titan within one week of posting. |
[Veteran_Markus]
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Posted - 2012.06.13 00:36:00 -
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NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!! You will have so many people on the EVE side raging this will NEVER EVER EVER EVER HAPPEN get it through your thick skull Dust Bunnies belong on the ground milling around not in space and sure as hell not aboard my damn ships!! |
[Veteran_Doctor Spankit]
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Posted - 2012.06.13 00:39:00 -
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U MAD BRO?
Its simply an idea. Just because I expanded upon an idea doesn't mean CCP is going to do it.
If you disagree, why did you post? just let the post sink to the bottom.
And if you read what I said... you would see that I made provisos, so that the ONLY WAY you can be boarded, is if your ship was going to DIE anyway. |
[Veteran_Markus]
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Posted - 2012.06.13 00:41:00 -
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Because guys like you keep making new threads
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[Veteran_Doctor Spankit]
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Posted - 2012.06.13 00:46:00 -
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Hey it looks like people actually like the threads I make.
*glances at your likes*
I took time to think about this idea, I balanced it in favour of the defender, and this boarding idea would be so incredibly wicked IF DONE PROPERLY. And last time I checked, there is no rule that says I can't post.
People like you would have yelled at CCP for thinking up some stupid thing where mercenary players took over your planetary installations you worked hard for.......
oh wait....
Stop being so negative. Boarding doesn't have to happen right away, but it can add some awesome flavour a year or so down the road in an expansion. |
[Veteran_Markus]
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Posted - 2012.06.13 00:49:00 -
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Doctor Spankit wrote:Hey it looks like people actually like the threads I make.
*glances at your likes*
I took time to think about this idea, I balanced it in favour of the defender, and this boarding idea would be so incredibly wicked IF DONE PROPERLY. And last time I checked, there is no rule that says I can't post.
People like you would have yelled at CCP for thinking up some stupid thing where mercenary players took over your planetary installations you worked hard for.......
oh wait....
Stop being so negative. Boarding doesn't have to happen right away, but it can add some awesome flavour a year or so down the road in an expansion.
SHall I make a poll on the eve forums and show you the results??? |
[Veteran_Doctor Spankit]
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Posted - 2012.06.13 03:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
I wrote this while I was bored at work... an unpopular idea still has merit, if properly reasoned. Especially when I believe that
1: I dislike everyone else reasoning/ideas on how to implement boarding.
2: Obviously people that have seen 100 bad boarding threads, are not going to read my huge ass post....
And if people arn't reading it,then you have no real right to critizise it. If its such a bad idea, just letting it die will send the signal that no one wants to discuss it.
I do not believe my way of boarding is like the other ideas, and that my idea is very fair, and addresses all the complaints people have about boarding contracts.
I thought this was EVE? Where this game is more advanced than the other games... and that EVE players have much thicker skin, and embrace the open and dangerous nature of the game?
-=-=-=-=-=-
Anyway you put it, I am free to express what I think would be a wicked feature in a game. I am here for discussion, not to have anyone tell me what I can and cannot post.
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[Veteran_Avinash Decker]
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Posted - 2012.06.13 03:47:00 -
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I expand on your idea a bit . The Eve player that gets boarded would still have some degree of control inside his ship. Since Capsuleers control the ship with their thoughts ( ? ) they still control a lot of functions inside the ship like security , doors , drones , etc. So the capsuleer can lock doors , trap dust players , send crew members (NPCs, i think its now been established that the ships have crew members ) or defending dust players to ambush the attacking force, etc . The capsuleer knows where the attacking force is at ALL times unless the attacking force can either trick or conceal themselves.( usually can be done by sabotage or a dropsuit module ). Plus bigger the ship the more dust players that is acquired to invade . |
[Veteran_Nellantar Ballsinya]
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Posted - 2012.06.13 03:52:00 -
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No.
It should never be implemented.
It isn't about how the ships are hard to get.
It isn't about how it would take skill to board an enemy ship.
And it definitely isn't about Rule of Cool. I would LOVE to board ships and destroy them.
It's all about how the game works: In EVE, in general, you will always know and be able to do something, productive or not, to save your ass. Making Capitals boardable would take that control out of the hands of the pilot and no one would leave their POSes unless they had their own merc ships with active boarding parties. This would lead to fleets always alphaing merc ships because no one wants to lose a ship because someone got lucky and gave them the equivalent of space AIDS. The Alphaing of merc ships would lead to loss of something MOST valuable to all mercs, their precious time.
No one will or should sit around waiting to get blown up with no way of defending themselves. This goes both ways.
REposted from one of the 10 other boarding topics. |
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[Veteran_iwillrock yourworld]
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Posted - 2012.06.13 16:39:00 -
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Will keep brief.
Ship combat should remain to be ship combat.
Only interaction in this aspect with Dust shoud be bombardments and the planet's base shooting back.
So no to ship boarding, Looks cool in a movie, dont think it has a place in EVE/Dust integration as long as gameplay for all parts involved is concerned. |
[Veteran_Eldorlon Tharn]
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Posted - 2012.06.13 17:00:00 -
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well to be fair - i see the point of idea.... ships blowing up dudes on planets, could be fun if we could commandere their ship.
a few suggestions -
only ships in orbit around a planet where DUST players are should be boardeble (they chose to be there)
BUT I could see the problem mentioned before about the time for the battle....
I mean - you fly around in you Raven, or Mael or whatever you use and suddenly an idiot tryes to board you - so for the next 30 min you sit in space starring at each other, maybe cry a little in local or whatever you do when your ship is sitting still for that long... wouldent work.
what COULD work is trying to board a POS tower to take controll of it.... (just throwing out another idea for the reason of boarding stuff) |
[Veteran_Cong Zilla]
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Posted - 2012.06.13 17:08:00 -
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The only way boarding ships will ever gain traction with the space ship flying side of EVE is if the worst thing that could happen is modules being offlined. It could work the same way as turning off defense nodes works now.
But honestly it could never work, even the planetary battles will have to be scheduled so both sides knows when the fight start like how clan wars works on WoT and you couldn't arrange that in the short time most space battles last. |
[Veteran_Traynor Youngs]
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Posted - 2012.06.13 17:15:00 -
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Ok, i have been a vocal opponent to the boarding thing and I will reiterate why here:
Either way you slice it, the boarding action has two district phases, a fleet phase and a CQB phase. During each phase, the other people in the other game are helpless to do anything to affect the outcome and that is bad. It should never happen EVER.
With that being said, someone said its not fair to have orbital bombardment then. But that is a different issue. First of all, the space ships need a targetable location which must be provided by the DUST players. There is a limit to how much they can shoot in a certain period of time, and the DUST players can RUN AWAY.
The corollary to the boarding thing would be if I fly my falcon (Electronic Warfare ship, and a damn good one too) in orbit where I am able to hack and shut down all your suits with nothing for you to do to prevent it except fit some anti hacking module, or hire an EVE fleet to blow me up. See how unfair that would be?
Eve fleets can shoot at DUST battles when a bombardment is called for.
Dust mercs can shoot into space if they control the battery, so there is something for you to do in response.
As to the original post idea, I think it is brilliant, WHEN APPLIED TO ANCHORED STRUCTURES. Like stations or POS's. Ill even let the DUST mercs keep/sell whatever was in the station or POS when they took it, so they can sell off the Dreads and Carriers if they want and make mad bank.
But there should be ZERO mechanic that allows for DUST bunnies to board active Eve ships.
EDIT: Also, when your idea is applied to POS's or Stations, it shouldnt be some cruiser sized ship. It should be a set of modules on a carrier that is carrying assault shuttles instead of fighters. This would make it balanced since the Eve player corp using it would have to field a carrier dedicated to it which is mostly helpless against other ships. |
[Veteran_iwillrock yourworld]
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Posted - 2012.06.13 17:22:00 -
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Eldorlon Tharn wrote:
what COULD work is trying to board a POS tower to take controll of it.... (just throwing out another idea for the reason of boarding stuff)
Yeah, a pos is another thing entirelly, being a fixed asset and suceptible to scheduled battled and the such.
A scheduled attack would be a nice alternative for the reinfocement mechanics that take things so long in EVE and a nice driver for EVe players to post Dust contracts, both defend and attack ones. |
[Veteran_iwillrock yourworld]
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Posted - 2012.06.13 17:25:00 -
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Traynor Youngs wrote:Ok, i have been a vocal opponent to the boarding thing and I will reiterate why here:
Either way you slice it, the boarding action has two district phases, a fleet phase and a CQB phase. During each phase, the other people in the other game are helpless to do anything to affect the outcome and that is bad. It should never happen EVER.
With that being said, someone said its not fair to have orbital bombardment then. But that is a different issue. First of all, the space ships need a targetable location which must be provided by the DUST players. There is a limit to how much they can shoot in a certain period of time, and the DUST players can RUN AWAY.
The corollary to the boarding thing would be if I fly my falcon (Electronic Warfare ship, and a damn good one too) in orbit where I am able to hack and shut down all your suits with nothing for you to do to prevent it except fit some anti hacking module, or hire an EVE fleet to blow me up. See how unfair that would be?
Eve fleets can shoot at DUST battles when a bombardment is called for.
Dust mercs can shoot into space if they control the battery, so there is something for you to do in response.
As to the original post idea, I think it is brilliant, WHEN APPLIED TO ANCHORED STRUCTURES. Like stations or POS's. Ill even let the DUST mercs keep/sell whatever was in the station or POS when they took it, so they can sell off the Dreads and Carriers if they want and make mad bank.
But there should be ZERO mechanic that allows for DUST bunnies to board active Eve ships.
EDIT: Also, when your idea is applied to POS's or Stations, it shouldnt be some cruiser sized ship. It should be a set of modules on a carrier that is carrying assault shuttles instead of fighters. This would make it balanced since the Eve player corp using it would have to field a carrier dedicated to it which is mostly helpless against other ships.
And if Dust vid's are to be taken seriously, plenets will be able to shhot back at the bombarding ships.
So tecnically its a "ship to ship" combat, if you follow the abstraction :)
PS.: i see you wrote the planet shooting back already, so, yeah, great post ;) |
[Veteran_Eldorlon Tharn]
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Posted - 2012.06.13 19:46:00 -
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for the bording of a POS idea, i'd say that it's fair thinking that the defender has time to scrounge together a force untill their reinforced timer runs out, and same for the attacker
but it might be most practical if the attacker is forced to choose as soon as the POS bash starts, if they wanna blow up the tower, or try to board it.
otherwise the defender is gonna try to hire as many, and as good grunts as he can.
when timer then runs out - the tower is blown to rubble...... wich means the DUST players have logged on and waitet for nothing as far as this battle goes....
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[Veteran_Traynor Youngs]
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Posted - 2012.06.13 19:57:00 -
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Eldorlon Tharn wrote:for the bording of a POS idea, i'd say that it's fair thinking that the defender has time to scrounge together a force untill their reinforced timer runs out, and same for the attacker
but it might be most practical if the attacker is forced to choose as soon as the POS bash starts, if they wanna blow up the tower, or try to board it.
otherwise the defender is gonna try to hire as many, and as good grunts as he can.
when timer then runs out - the tower is blown to rubble...... wich means the DUST players have logged on and waitet for nothing as far as this battle goes....
I would say that the best way to handle it would be for a 2 hour period before the POS comes out of reinforce, it becomes board-able and defendable. If it is not taken during that time, then the attackers can either destroy the POS, or allow it to be repaired and then reinforce it again.
This way, as soon as a POS goes into reinforce, a battle could be posted on the DUST boards with a time and a contract button to see/create contracts associated with that POS. |
[Veteran_Eldorlon Tharn]
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Posted - 2012.06.13 20:00:00 -
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That isent a half bad idea.. that way the attacker could lose the battle for the tower, but still blow it up
at the same time it gives defender some more time to mount a counter attack....
I like it =) |
[Veteran_Dargondarkfire darkfire]
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Posted - 2012.06.13 21:07:00 -
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i think station boarding is more likely myself. if boarding made ships invulnerable eve players would all just try docking to each other instead of blowing each other up.
and besides docking to do boarding is not that simple, you would either have to cripple the engines or web them into being unable to move at all. otherwise the opposing ship would just have to hit its thrusters and break away likely dealing hull damage to both ships.
actually a better method would be to launch boarding pods/ships, these latch onto the hips hull, then boar and entrance into the ship letting the boarding party inside. or in case of ships with fighter bays, breach the fighter bay letting troops in and blocking the ship's ability to launch fighter's or ships (depending on the size of the ship).
i know alot of eve players wont want this feature added thou. |
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[Veteran_Iceyburnz]
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Posted - 2012.06.13 21:10:00 -
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Station boarding i'd like to see.
Ship boarding...meh. |
[Veteran_Sha Kharn Clone]
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Posted - 2012.06.13 21:14:00 -
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If anything maybe it is indeed going to be staion boarding thats going to work since its part of sov and all. |
[Veteran_Traynor Youngs]
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Posted - 2012.06.13 21:24:00 -
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Iceyburnz wrote:Station boarding i'd like to see.
Ship boarding...meh.
Ive been thinking more about this and I really think there is a good possibility here for a great set of mechanics.
Just in rough outlines:
Each station has 5 zones:
Core
Engineering
Habitat
Hanger
Control
You have to first take and control the core because that is what gives you access to the rest of the station.
Habitat areas are where people live and such, the Hanger is full of Eve Ships and large open areas (where tanks can operate) Engineering is like a warren of pipes and cables but controls lights and such throughout the station, and control is where the station can be controlled from and you can lock it down, etc.
Once the station has some structure damage, it becomes vulnerable. In order to take the station, a carrier must launch assault shuttles at the station. The Carrier would also need a high slot module that provides mercenary clone relay services. IF this carrier shuts down that module, or is destroyed, then the DUST mercs can no longer respawn.
A single carrier with this module allows one assault at a time.
Each zone of the station is a different 32 vs 32 battle, so if you want to take the station as quickly as possible, then you need four carriers (you have to take the core first, and then you can assault the other four simultaneously).
This would require that the Eve corp seizing the station would have to commit at least one carrier to the fight. There would be no orbital bombardment possible, but they would have to stay while the carriers support the assault.
Defense could be arranged while the station is reinforced the second time (below 50% armor). This way the station could be listed on the DUST boards before hand. If no contracts are made for defense of the station, then it will be defended by some set number of NPC's and would most certainly be conquered.
If the attackers fail to take the station, then they can destroy it and would have to spend money to build a new one.
If the attackers take the station, then ownership transfers to the corp that contracted the mercs. IF the contract allows for spoils of war, then the Mercs have the choice to sell off the contents of the station hangers on the Eve Market. If not, then the same mechanic that exists now would hold (private hangers stay sealed). The ability to manage the station would not transfer until next downtime.
For POS's, kind of the same mechanic, except that there should only be Engineering and Control zones, and you shouldn't have to have a carrier for high sec POS's, but that needs more discussion and balance.
Thoughts? |
[Veteran_Neo161]
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Posted - 2012.06.13 22:13:00 -
[24] - Quote
no for ship to ship boarding, control is taken away from the eve players
YES for Station and pos boarding. even make a simple mechanic that allows anchored and long abandoned poses to be boarded, easy as taking the control points, everybody's happy.
also, YES to boarding Sleeper structures for epic loot, and sleeper ships to deactivate them.
also gotta remeber, just cause somethings sheilds are down, doesn't mean your boarding crew has the abillity to penetrate 800mm of solid steel to get inside the ship.
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[Veteran_Azure Horned Wolf]
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Posted - 2012.06.13 23:15:00 -
[25] - Quote
I support this, I want ship boarding. |
[Veteran_Traynor Youngs]
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Posted - 2012.06.14 03:09:00 -
[26] - Quote
So it seems that some people still want ship boarding, and I think a lot more people would rather it be just stations/Pos's and not ships.
So, I am gonna start a new thread for Station boarding discussions. |
[Veteran_Eldorlon Tharn]
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Posted - 2012.06.14 05:45:00 -
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Azure Horned Wolf wrote:I support this, I want ship boarding.
I still fail to see how you want to sell this idea to the general EVE player as it would result in long waiting times where they can do nothing at all.
If my BS or whatever was borded and i was forced to sit for 30-60 min waiting for the outcome of a boarding action, i might end up logging..... and then what happens?
another problem with the boarding is - once the ship is won by the attacking side - who is gonna fly it?
would the attacking pilot be moved to the new ship?
cos if so - i'll stop trying to earn isk and just start finding abbandond ships i can board and sell...
so no - I can't se boarding actions working on other things then static things like a POS (or station if CCP want's to go large) |
[Veteran_knight dt]
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Posted - 2012.06.14 06:19:00 -
[28] - Quote
Not to imply that I'm actually in favor of ship boarding... I haven't really made up my mind yet...
But to progress the discussion. I think it would require a specific boarding ship (or ship class). The ship itself would need to be relatively inexpensive, and obviously one time use. Since the ship would require a pod pilot, that would be the new pilot of the captured vessel if the action were successful. If the action was NOT successful then the boarding ship would be lost and the pilot would find themselves floating in their pod.
The ONLY way that ship boarding could reasonably happen is in a gate camp where a single enemy foolishly jumps in or maybe if a roaming gang jumps someone ratting and manages to snag them before they warp to a safe - or scans them down? The attacking force would be down a ship (since there would have to be a boarding ship - no guns)
But there would also be almost no chance of failure for the attackers. I mean, if it didn't work, they just keep the helpless ship bubbled/webbed, and bring in another boarding party... If the captured ship had decent cargo (gives a good reason to equip a cargo scanner) or if it was valuable enough then why not keep sending in the troops? If they do a logoffski then they have 'aggro' and could maybe be captured within that timeframe.
Fairness and balance? The attackers are down one pilot in a vulnerable ship instead of a combat one, forfeit a little isk, a bit of time. Instead of getting some of the loot out of the wreckage, they end up with all the loot (given the armor and shield damage requirements in the OP, I think we can assume the ship was going to die one way or another. Additionally, if they couldn't kill the slow, unarmed, boarding ship before it got close then they weren't going to get away from death either.
More food for thought --- how would the 30 second self destruct needs to change to make this workable? What if the DUST players were given one minute in a speed-ball style arena? We can't have the EVE players sitting around all day, and we can't make it so quick that the bunnies have no time to finish the job... Obviously pressing the self destruct is still ultimately the pod pilot's decision...
And as for the fact that the ships have crews --- when one 'ejects' from a ship and some other hostile entity sweeps in and boards it with the current EVE game mechanics, guess what? That's right, all systems are fully under the new pilot's controls. If there is no issue with this current mechanic then there shouldn't be an issue with bunny-boarding.
As for the big ships --- if a Titan (or other cap) gets tackled and here come the boarding ships... well... you could either make really expensive big boarding ships and require a minimum size of boarding ship to take a capital; or you could give the defender some ridiculous advantages --- generally I think Titan pilots suck it up and die rather than self-destruct; if threatened by boarding, that might change... You could just make anything bigger than a battleship un-boardable.
All that and I'm STILL not sure I'm ready to accept the concept of ship boarding. Very game-changing... Definitely something that would require a LOT of forethought and development that we won't see within the next few... years. |
[Veteran_Eldorlon Tharn]
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Posted - 2012.06.14 06:27:00 -
[29] - Quote
If boarding ships is a good idea or not is stil a hot potato...
what i havent heard anything about is solving the problem about - where would the defending ship get it's troops from?
would ppl be flying around with marines (yes the once you can buy on market) to ensure they have a small force onboard?
cos saying that it's the crew itself figthing would be silly IMO. where would they get jumpsuits from?, and where would they keep 200 clones ready to jump into action? |
[Veteran_Dargondarkfire darkfire]
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Posted - 2012.06.14 10:34:00 -
[30] - Quote
Eldorlon Tharn wrote:If boarding ships is a good idea or not is stil a hot potato...
what i havent heard anything about is solving the problem about - where would the defending ship get it's troops from?
would ppl be flying around with marines (yes the once you can buy on market) to ensure they have a small force onboard?
cos saying that it's the crew itself figthing would be silly IMO. where would they get jumpsuits from?, and where would they keep 200 clones ready to jump into action?
unless your ship comes with npcs, the only one holding 200+ marines would probably be capital ships.
althou now i have a hilarious image in my head of a large galente cargo ship with 200+ players were sitting in to get transported gets a boarding ship stuck to it, and as the boarding party trys to enter the ship, the players just blaze there gun into the opening mowing everything down. |
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[Veteran_EnglishSnake]
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Posted - 2012.06.14 12:10:00 -
[31] - Quote
What is to stop the 1 lone pilot from activating the self destruct sequence, jettision his pod and killing everyone on board and thus ending the match as a win for him
As much as boarding sounds good atm i dont think it should be in at all because ships are piloted by 1 person trying to defend against 16-32 attackers
I say no to it atm |
[Veteran_Eldorlon Tharn]
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Posted - 2012.06.14 13:33:00 -
[32] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:What is to stop the 1 lone pilot from activating the self destruct sequence, jettision his pod and killing everyone on board and thus ending the match as a win for him
As much as boarding sounds good atm i dont think it should be in at all because ships are piloted by 1 person trying to defend against 16-32 attackers
I say no to it atm
this is my point to. there would be no real explanation for were the 16 guys defending the ship came from...
unless boundless comes up with a "instant marine" kit...
How to use:
"add water to the instant marine kit, give it a good shake and wait 15 sec."
BTW - CCP if you use my INSTA GRUNT kit i hereby call it by trademark, copyright and all that   |
[Veteran_Degren Cthulhu]
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Posted - 2012.06.14 14:12:00 -
[33] - Quote
granted ive only been playing eve for 10 months but i would like to see this happen down the road. i would change a few things in the op thou like it would require a new ship type so the victim can see what might be about to go down and that the ship it wants to board has got to be in structure.
eg 1. im in lowsec in my armageddon when im engaged and tackled by 5 hostiles i put up a good fight kill 2 of the ships but im now capped out and in structure and cant fight back anyway, boarding ship warps in and latches onto my now stricken ship and starts to chew through whats left of the hull once thtas done my pod ejects as normal. ive now got 2 options i can contract a defence if they win the ship loss goes down as a self destruct if the attacker wins they now have a new but beat up ship or i can come back with friends and try and get my ship back the same way they took it. in this scenario i would have lost my ship any way so no tears that anything was taken out of my control
eg 2. same deal tackled and capped out but just as the boarding ship is about to finish of whats left of my hull friends warp in and start landing reps and cap on my ship giving some armour back forcing the boarding ship of my ship, the hostiles now need to make a choice stay and fight and try to finish me of as normal or bail
eg 3. im in my armageddon in lowsec doing whateva i come across a lone boarding ship and because its weaponless and slow its an easy target i get a scram and web on him and ransom/pod his sorry ass |
[Veteran_EnglishSnake]
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Posted - 2012.06.14 14:17:00 -
[34] - Quote
Eldorlon Tharn wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:What is to stop the 1 lone pilot from activating the self destruct sequence, jettision his pod and killing everyone on board and thus ending the match as a win for him
As much as boarding sounds good atm i dont think it should be in at all because ships are piloted by 1 person trying to defend against 16-32 attackers
I say no to it atm this is my point to. there would be no real explanation for were the 16 guys defending the ship came from... unless boundless comes up with a "instant marine" kit... How to use: "add water to the instant marine kit, give it a good shake and wait 15 sec." BTW - CCP if you use my INSTA GRUNT kit i hereby call it by trademark, copyright and all that
Thats why i dont like it
Your ship in EVE is a 1man ship, it has no marines on board with a cook/cleaner and medic
Now a station will have security so boarding a station makes more sense than a ship
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[Veteran_Zalifer Nakamoda]
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Posted - 2012.06.14 14:32:00 -
[35] - Quote
Boarding ships is for people who are dumb and ugly. It should not happen. While I agree the games need to be linked, the also need to be separate.
Also, ships are NOT one man. They have one pilot or capsuleer in them, but there could be thousands of staff on a titan, so some of them could be marines. Besides, they are freaking clones who's consciousness can fly instantly across the universe. They would just activate clones on any ship being attacked.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/New_Eden_crew_guidelines |
[Veteran_EnglishSnake]
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Posted - 2012.06.14 14:43:00 -
[36] - Quote
Zalifer Nakamoda wrote:Boarding ships is for people who are dumb and ugly. It should not happen. While I agree the games need to be linked, the also need to be separate. Also, ships are NOT one man. They have one pilot or capsuleer in them, but there could be thousands of staff on a titan, so some of them could be marines. Besides, they are freaking clones who's consciousness can fly instantly across the universe. They would just activate clones on any ship being attacked. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/New_Eden_crew_guidelines
Could be but most likely not, in EVE the ship is piloted by you and you alone i thought until i saw the link
That link is usefull but the stats i mean 10000ppl on the ship its a bit much tbh hence why i dont think they will bother |
[Veteran_Zalifer Nakamoda]
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Posted - 2012.06.14 15:15:00 -
[37] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:Zalifer Nakamoda wrote:Boarding ships is for people who are dumb and ugly. It should not happen. While I agree the games need to be linked, the also need to be separate. Also, ships are NOT one man. They have one pilot or capsuleer in them, but there could be thousands of staff on a titan, so some of them could be marines. Besides, they are freaking clones who's consciousness can fly instantly across the universe. They would just activate clones on any ship being attacked. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/New_Eden_crew_guidelines Could be but most likely not, in EVE the ship is piloted by you and you alone i thought until i saw the link That link is usefull but the stats i mean 10000ppl on the ship its a bit much tbh hence why i dont think they will bother
I really don't understand...
the table makes clear that even on a pod pilots titan, there are at least 3000 crew. So you, and 3000 non pod people.
and don't think they will bother what?
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[Veteran_EnglishSnake]
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Posted - 2012.06.14 15:19:00 -
[38] - Quote
Zalifer Nakamoda wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:Zalifer Nakamoda wrote:Boarding ships is for people who are dumb and ugly. It should not happen. While I agree the games need to be linked, the also need to be separate. Also, ships are NOT one man. They have one pilot or capsuleer in them, but there could be thousands of staff on a titan, so some of them could be marines. Besides, they are freaking clones who's consciousness can fly instantly across the universe. They would just activate clones on any ship being attacked. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/New_Eden_crew_guidelines Could be but most likely not, in EVE the ship is piloted by you and you alone i thought until i saw the link That link is usefull but the stats i mean 10000ppl on the ship its a bit much tbh hence why i dont think they will bother I really don't understand... the table makes clear that even on a pod pilots titan, there are at least 3000 crew. So you, and 3000 non pod people. and don't think they will bother what?
Bother implementing it
3000vs 3000 is a bit much
Hell for a destroyer/cruiser or BC id just self destruct it instead of bothering with a contract and waiting on the outcome for a ship i can easily replace |
[Veteran_Zalifer Nakamoda]
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Posted - 2012.06.14 15:30:00 -
[39] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:Blah blah blah
I never suggested those sorts of numbers. My stance is that boarding is dumb and ugly.
People were saying it was silly to have boarding, because where would the defensive mercs come from, and the answer to that question is that there could be up to 6000 crew on a ship, and even if there were not, we could assume ships would have CRU's onboard, and only needed to request mercs, and they could die, and awake on the ship.
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[Veteran_Vesta Ren]
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Posted - 2012.06.14 15:30:00 -
[40] - Quote
Whats with all this concern about EVE rage? Are we really so concerned that some internet nerds are going to be angry that there is one very specific very risky way to take over their ship that would have otherwise been destroyed?
Stop handicapping dust just to keep EVE happy, as long as a feature is well thought out and well balanced it will add to the game's fun, regardless of the few people who will flame because it happens to effect them slightly.
As an EVE player, i actualy have no idea who would be angry about this idea if implemented properly. Pirates certanly would be fine with it, as it would let them get a little bit more isk if they do things properly. Wouldn't effect high sec. And in null wars unless your just hunting down individual people the Dust boarding crafts could jsut be picked off your expensive ships with a few shots, stopping the boarding before it realy begins.
All it does is add depth to both games. |
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[Veteran_Markus]
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Posted - 2012.06.14 15:36:00 -
[41] - Quote
I will self destruct my ship the second any dust bunny sets foot on my ship I could care less what ship or how its fiited. If theres something that prevents me from blowing it up that way ill log in an alt and burn my own ship to a wreck and smile gleefully as I watch the lil dust bunnies spew out of the hull breaches gasping and clawing for air. Stay away from our ships it will never ever work no one will ever agree to having you board our ships. The second that a patch goes into effect that allows this to happen you will lose so many subscribers to EVE CCPs pocket book will never recover. You lose eve you lose DUST. |
[Veteran_EnglishSnake]
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Posted - 2012.06.14 15:38:00 -
[42] - Quote
Zalifer Nakamoda wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:Blah blah blah Blah blah blah
Que?
Your the one with the link its where the numbers came from but atm the game being 16v16 and hopefully larger then fighting on a ship is kinda pointless if said ship can hold 10times the max player count
It would be like BF3 massive ship but no one around
Plus you self destruct the ship and the match wont take place |
[Veteran_Eldorlon Tharn]
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Posted - 2012.06.14 16:05:00 -
[43] - Quote
Vesta Ren wrote:Whats with all this concern about EVE rage? Are we really so concerned that some internet nerds are going to be angry that there is one very specific very risky way to take over their ship that would have otherwise been destroyed?
Stop handicapping dust just to keep EVE happy, as long as a feature is well thought out and well balanced it will add to the game's fun, regardless of the few people who will flame because it happens to effect them slightly.
As an EVE player, i actualy have no idea who would be angry about this idea if implemented properly. Pirates certanly would be fine with it, as it would let them get a little bit more isk if they do things properly. Wouldn't effect high sec. And in null wars unless your just hunting down individual people the Dust boarding crafts could jsut be picked off your expensive ships with a few shots, stopping the boarding before it realy begins.
All it does is add depth to both games.
It has nothing to do with keeping anyone happy for my part - my problem with the issue of boarding ships is still mostly how much i would hate sitting 30 min untill the contract for the DUST players was ready and then another 30 min for the outcome of the fight.
I mean - would you really wan't to find yourself in that spot???
the point behind the idea is great but why would you wanna force an eve player to be bound in a place for any amount of time?
it dosent even have to be a ship in combat... some guy could be sitting in his hulk in 0.0 getting jumped by a cloaky and boarded... now he has ti sit and wait (I don't wanna hear "he's prolly AFK mining anyway")
If he's really lucky he was even about to dock and log, but now he's forced to decide to stay and wait. hopeing he might end up keeping his ship or lose his ship anyway..... the good old blow'em up and move on still leaves you able to log queit fast after getting blown up
EDIT: appart for that - if this WAS about keeping someone happy I would say it's the EVE players, since they pay to play and have been around longest.... DUST is PR for EVE |
[Veteran_Traynor Youngs]
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Posted - 2012.06.14 19:26:00 -
[44] - Quote
Eldorlon Tharn wrote:Vesta Ren wrote:Whats with all this concern about EVE rage? Are we really so concerned that some internet nerds are going to be angry that there is one very specific very risky way to take over their ship that would have otherwise been destroyed?
Stop handicapping dust just to keep EVE happy, as long as a feature is well thought out and well balanced it will add to the game's fun, regardless of the few people who will flame because it happens to effect them slightly.
As an EVE player, i actualy have no idea who would be angry about this idea if implemented properly. Pirates certanly would be fine with it, as it would let them get a little bit more isk if they do things properly. Wouldn't effect high sec. And in null wars unless your just hunting down individual people the Dust boarding crafts could jsut be picked off your expensive ships with a few shots, stopping the boarding before it realy begins.
All it does is add depth to both games. It has nothing to do with keeping anyone happy for my part - my problem with the issue of boarding ships is still mostly how much i would hate sitting 30 min untill the contract for the DUST players was ready and then another 30 min for the outcome of the fight. I mean - would you really wan't to find yourself in that spot??? the point behind the idea is great but why would you wanna force an eve player to be bound in a place for any amount of time? it dosent even have to be a ship in combat... some guy could be sitting in his hulk in 0.0 getting jumped by a cloaky and boarded... now he has ti sit and wait (I don't wanna hear "he's prolly AFK mining anyway") If he's really lucky he was even about to dock and log, but now he's forced to decide to stay and wait. hopeing he might end up keeping his ship or lose his ship anyway..... the good old blow'em up and move on still leaves you able to log queit fast after getting blown up EDIT: appart for that - if this WAS about keeping someone happy I would say it's the EVE players, since they pay to play and have been around longest.... DUST is PR for EVE
Space AIDS is bad game design.
In Eve, you ARE the spaceship. There are some captains quarters or something somewhere but your real avatar IS your ship. So when DUST bunnies board you, you might as well have contracted AIDS, and the only thing to do is wait and see if the meds work.
That is bad game design and I can prove it. Ill make a game and call it space AIDS, and tell people that they are starship pilots on a ship that has been boarded and their mission is to win the battle for their ship. When they enter the game they sit and wait for one hour, then a pop up tells them if they won. How fun does that sound?
So Vesta, its not about Eve Rage, its about gameplay. As anyone who has ever played a game before knows, its all about the gameplay being fun.
I agree with Eldorlon in that boarding ships is dumb. But I disagree that one game is more important than another. They are both important and they need to both be compelling games. But what does boarding ships really add to DUST? Does it add so much that simply cannot come from any other source that justifies what it takes away from Eve? I think not.
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