DUST Search - Scrambler rifle and ion pistol functionality change

Sicerly Yaw wrote:

Bradric Banewolf wrote:

Sicerly Yaw wrote:

the simple fix would be for the ScR not to be able to hold max charge and instead be instantly discharged when maxed out making it either slow burst damge or fast fire low damge, I myself like this idea better as it makes it so people actually have to aim and not just go in and out of cover with charged shots or staring out with a high damge then bursting down whats left

as for the ion pistol the mechanics for it work perfectly fine there is nothing wrong with it and it performs very well for its intended uses

Lol! Clearly you don't run the ion pistol in CQC.

Any weapon siezing in a close quarters situation is bad, be it the scrambler rifle or ion pistol.

If the shotgun siezed in close quarters would you wanna use it?

I have no issue with the charge shot from the scrambler. This makes it unique, and remember, the suit is just as important as the weapon!

I wouldn't cripple the amarr assault by making the charge shot "hit or miss" that way?! The dropsuit it too slow to be missing the charge shot because in a stressful situation you over shot it?! This would just lead to the death of the viziam, and an influx in the use of the carthum to compensate.

What I'm suggesting easily fixes the issue, and is an easy enough task for CCP to implement quickly.

With the Viziam you either charge shot from range, conserving ammo and dealing major damage, or single shot, faster fire rate, and possibility of use in closer ranges.

With the carthum it's auto fire ftw, but with the Viziam it's a strong game of tactics and precision from range, requiring actual skill.

What I propose makes the weapon not so devastating, while still allowing regular use.

first of all I have used the ion pistol since its release and have been successful with it even before its buff, the Ion pistol does not sieze if you use it right rather then just spamming it like a noob

crippling the amarr by not being able to hold a shot? are you telling me you cant aim or that charge up mechanics make weapons too hard to use, so what does that say about the assault forge or any caldari weapon

saying that the carthum requires more skill then the viziam just because its semi auto rather then full auto , thats like saying an full auto AK is more powerful then a semi auto one

the charge shot currently takes little to no skill to use especially with AA being involved if AA wasnt a part of the game semi auto weapons would in fact take more skill to use and high damge could be justified this is also true for the BP

what you propose ruins the weapons, perhaps not the ScR but the ion pistol works fine as it is and making it a mini ScR does not help at all even if for some reason it was lacking, auto seize on a weapon that can OHKO you doesn't really make a difference either it only further encourages the armor meta


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Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 1	Posted - 2015.08.12 16:32:00 - [1] - Quote TL;DR below, but please read in it's entirety, and consider the possibilities with an open mind. This could be the small fix without hurting anyone's class! So, I was thinking about the issues and complaints surrounding the scrambler rifle, and my own issues with the ion pistol. To start off the scrambler rifle to many players is considered OP for many reasons, but the one that I think makes it so, hands down, is the charge shot, followed by repeated single shots before overheat. This mechanic is what makes the scrambler so dangerous, and if you add the dmg profile, range, and accuracy it does seem extremely OP. I saw a scrambler nerf post that brought to my attention a change that may solve the problem! Currently the ion pistol has this mechanic that cripples it for it's job. The merc suggested that the charge shot from the scrambler cause an instant overheat like the ion pistol, but with no feedback dmg, like the ion pistol. This, to me, was genius! With this you don't have to nerf the scrambler rifle at all, but still takes away the most OP factor without killing the weapon! The charge shot can still be devastating, but isn't followed up by multiple shots. It fires the charge, overheats with no feedback dmg, and cools down for more shots. If you don't charge, and just single fire the weapon, it will simply overheat after so many shots, with no feedback dmg! This is an awesome setup that leaves the dmg profile in tact, but takes away the charge shot followed by multiple shots without crippling the rifle. It offers choice! Charge shot, or multiple single shots! This allows shield players the chance to recognize they have been charged shot, and go for cover. Also allows their shields to recover before multiple shots are directly on them. The scrambler single shot dmg directly after a charge shot is too much even for armor suits?! Now with the ion pistol the mechanic currently works this way, but for a CQC weapon is terrible?! The weapon is either multiple shots til overheat with no feedback dmg, or charge shot instant overheat with no feedback dmg. The problem is the charge shot doesn't often finish off enemies, and leaves you overheated not 20 meters away from a firing enemy?! I would suggest the ion pistol be capable of charge shot with follow up shots til overheat, and feedback dmg! In CQC it will be very dangerous then, but with feedback dmg to lookout for. The concept makes sense in CQC as you need that kind of firepower to back enemies down. With the scrambler rifle you're usually at range when you charge shot, and not in need of follow up shots. With the ion pistol follow up shots in cqc are almost a beautiful miracle! This could change both weapons drastically for the better! The scrambler, while still completely powerful, will have the drawback necessary without the "OP" factor. While the Ion pistol can get busy in CQC without being rendered useless after a charge. I've said this before when the ion first was released. Why on earth would anyone want a weapon to overheat and sieze in CQC? It's illogical, like jumping through the air with PLC, HMG, Forge guns, and Mass Drivers.... large weapons with mass that would logically be too heavy to jump with.... yeah, another post coming on that bs?! Overheating at range isn't dangerous as the target is, in the case of the scrambler, 60+ meters away in most cases. Overheating at less than 20 meters is a nightmare! The ion pistol as a sidearm to the UP Assault rifle class in CQC doesn't have the stopping power to deal with the environment of CQC, in my opinion. You have heavies, scouts, the logies with rifles backing the heavy, splash dmg, etc. As a gallente assault, built for CQC with short ranged, under-powered, and seizing weapons, you're probably not fairing too well with gallente weaponry. I'm also sure the data shows it as well. Swap the overheat mechanics of this weapon CCP! You'll fix two problem with one wrench on this one. I would also like to roll around an idea along the same lines for the Assault rifle class being that it's a plasma rifle. Overheat! Let the AR, like the Ion pistol, have an overheat, and buff the dmg in CQC! This would give it the dmg needed without making it OP, as you would have to manage overheat and feedback dmg! It would also make logical, stay with me CCP, sense because plasma heat can obviously cause overheat! This way you can buff the dmg profile of the standard assault without making it too powerful. It can carry and fire 70 rounds, but will overheat at 40 rounds of continuous fire. More dmg can definitely be justified if the rifles overheat, and overheat on the tactical variants would stop, or atleast deter, modded controller usage! TL;DR Swap the overheat mechanics for the Scrambler rifle (Viziam variant) and the Ion Pistol. Add dmg to the Assault rifle variants, but add overheat and feedback dmg to counter. It just makes sense in CQC, but CCP please be careful not to over buff if you buff the AR dmg! Over buffing is BAD, but if you get this right you will fix a large number of weapon balance issues in both the plasma and laser class of rifles. Put the Close Quarters back in the gallente! Thanks for reading o7 "Anybody order chaos?"
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 1	Posted - 2015.08.12 18:42:00 - [2] - Quote Sicerly Yaw wrote: the simple fix would be for the ScR not to be able to hold max charge and instead be instantly discharged when maxed out making it either slow burst damge or fast fire low damge, I myself like this idea better as it makes it so people actually have to aim and not just go in and out of cover with charged shots or staring out with a high damge then bursting down whats left as for the ion pistol the mechanics for it work perfectly fine there is nothing wrong with it and it performs very well for its intended uses Lol! Clearly you don't run the ion pistol in CQC. Any weapon siezing in a close quarters situation is bad, be it the scrambler rifle or ion pistol. If the shotgun siezed in close quarters would you wanna use it? I have no issue with the charge shot from the scrambler. This makes it unique, and remember, the suit is just as important as the weapon! I wouldn't cripple the amarr assault by making the charge shot "hit or miss" that way?! The dropsuit it too slow to be missing the charge shot because in a stressful situation you over shot it?! This would just lead to the death of the viziam, and an influx in the use of the carthum to compensate. What I'm suggesting easily fixes the issue, and is an easy enough task for CCP to implement quickly. With the Viziam you either charge shot from range, conserving ammo and dealing major damage, or single shot, faster fire rate, and possibility of use in closer ranges. With the carthum it's auto fire ftw, but with the Viziam it's a strong game of tactics and precision from range, requiring actual skill. What I propose makes the weapon not so devastating, while still allowing regular use. "Anybody order chaos?"
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 1	Posted - 2015.08.12 19:52:00 - [3] - Quote Caveat I'm not for any part of this game being easy. I play for the challenge, and customization! I make plenty of money, and can respec at any time I choose. I have ran every suit in the game at one point or another, and yet I choose to run gallente suits and weaponry? Running any of the other races, especially minmatar, is much much easier, but I choose to run gallente, and to boot, the assault rifle. Not because it's the easier choice I assure you lol! I enjoy the lore in this game, specifically gallente, and so to challenge myself, against all odds, I run gallente FW and gear. I welcome the challenge of an overheat mechanic to the Assault rifles! I think this adds to lore, and helps make the spam use of ease in the modded controller much more difficult. I don't want to just add dmg as a buff to the weapon without consideration for other races, weapons, and playstyles. Indescriminantly nerfing and buffing rifles without full consideration for bonuses, dmg profiles, environment, and combat situations is what keeps us in the OP fotm loop. The idea behind the scrambler/ion mechanics change is to offer to keep the weapons virtually unchanged in intended operation while accommodating the users and opponents. As a shield dropsuit user you're options for survival in the aftermath of a charged shot attack is slim because of the huge shield dmg capabilities, and the follow-up shots! Your options are limited to one. RUN! If you turn to fight, you die. If you're too far from the nearest cover you'll never make it. The charge shot then sieze, gives players a chance to return fire, or take cover at the minimum. This levels the playing field a little as most charge shots will be fired from range and likely cover positions. If the scrambler rifle user decides to fire single shots the shield suit can still choose to return fire, or take cover. For the ion pistol, in close quarters, what good is the weapon, at 20 meters, if I fire a charged shot that doesn't kill the enemy? I'm now siezed, and he's shooting at me, AT 20 METERS! If you get within 40 meters of a gallente assault suit I should have a sidearm/light weapon combo to be feared! This charge shot/follow-up mechanic should be the ion pistols bread and butter! As Sgt kirk said, the ion and scrambler pistols seem to be confused. To compliment this, the AR should also sieze after extended use firing plasma(heated) rounds in rapid succession for extended periods of time, but should be a tad stronger so there is some sort of payoff to the weapons mechanics! Otherwise there's no real reason to put any SP into either weapon except stubborn loyalty lol! Currently what most Gallente loyalist are running on lol! The facts: 1.The gallente race specializes in close quarters combat 2. The Assault rifle, and variants, are shorter ranged than every other rifle 3. They are, without question, under performing in comparison to other rifle classes (at long range, AND CQC) 4. The Combat rifle currently stands as the best CQC rifle to use (regardless of dropsuit) it even out performs the AR on the gallente dropsuit which has an AR bonus 5. The Assault rail rifle and Combat rifle both out perform the Assault rifle on the gallente assault dropsuit (with no bonus) This should be rectified. So many mercs ask for a raw dmg buff, but some are afraid this would make the weapon OP. Rightfully so if you're caldari! So what I suggest to counter that action is an added overheat mechanic, a proficiency per level of 2% shield dmg and 1% armor dmg (due to most CQC situations have armor based heavies), and a small dmg CQC dmg buff. Meaning inside of optimal range the AR hits slightly harder to make it the king of CQC once more. Lowering the shield proficiency dmg from 3% to 2%, plus the overheat mechanic being added, counters any "don't buff the AR" arguments. CCP can safely bring the dmg "SLIGHTLY" higher without fear of making the weapon OP. Keep in mind the dmg buff should only be applied within optimal range! Keeping the weapon CQC without mercs getting carried away at 65 meters?! Meaning, you still have a huge disadvantage outside of optimal range, but now have a greater advantage in CQC. This, in my opinion, is fair. It also doesn't leave shield suits in the dust, but instead forces them to stop thinking they can just hold R1 with the rail rifle. The Minmatar will have to expect the same dmg they deal out in CQC! At the appropriate ranges each suit can use their respective weapons and bonuses in their intended ranges! The scrambler can stay unique while getting a well deserved nerf that doesn't cripple the weapon! The option to single shot or charge shot is there, but not together like before. This gives the shield suit user a greater chance to regen or withstand dmg, but also leaves the weapon(scrambler rifle) considerably dangerous all the same. "Anybody order chaos?"
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 1	Posted - 2015.08.12 20:05:00 - [4] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: I like this idea. Having a lot of experience with both weapons I think this would work. Do you think the damage level for overheat should remain the same if transferred to the Ion Pistol? Taking damage from the overheat on the SCR is not to big of a deal in many situations (It won't break your own shield if full), due to the range. In CQC that level of damage has different repercussions. The dmg can stay the same because the ion pistol wouldn'toverheat immediately as before. There would be a possibility for follow-up shots, but no many as the original charge shot puts you severely close to overheat. Example: You've expended all 70 rounds from your assault rifle, and after downing 1 assault dropsuit and a logi in 1 magazine, you're face to face with a third assailant. Naturally you go to your sidearm, and charge the Ole ion pistol! You land the shot which backs the assailant off, but currently he realizes you're jammed, and finishes you off?! With what I've suggested, you're capable of charge shot and follow-up shots! How you apply it, and manage both overheat of AR and ion pistol is upon the skill of the user! This setup would give any skilled player far more dmg potential, and options when using this combo! In the case of the ion pistol, I can charge a shot to back off the enemy for time to reload my AR! I can charge shot and spam follow-up shots for the finish! I can charge, and charge again for a second charge shot! All of this is possible with the change, but currently your AR probably would only kill the logi, and leave you with 2 assailants to deal with only left with the ion pistol in it's current state. You'd be lucky to get the second currently, and the 3rd assailant would definitely kill you before ion pistol cooldown?! The dmg profile of the ion pistol need not change for this to work! "Anybody order chaos?"
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 1	Posted - 2015.08.13 05:03:00 - [5] - Quote Sicerly Yaw wrote: Bradric Banewolf wrote: Sicerly Yaw wrote: the simple fix would be for the ScR not to be able to hold max charge and instead be instantly discharged when maxed out making it either slow burst damge or fast fire low damge, I myself like this idea better as it makes it so people actually have to aim and not just go in and out of cover with charged shots or staring out with a high damge then bursting down whats left as for the ion pistol the mechanics for it work perfectly fine there is nothing wrong with it and it performs very well for its intended uses Lol! Clearly you don't run the ion pistol in CQC. Any weapon siezing in a close quarters situation is bad, be it the scrambler rifle or ion pistol. If the shotgun siezed in close quarters would you wanna use it? I have no issue with the charge shot from the scrambler. This makes it unique, and remember, the suit is just as important as the weapon! I wouldn't cripple the amarr assault by making the charge shot "hit or miss" that way?! The dropsuit it too slow to be missing the charge shot because in a stressful situation you over shot it?! This would just lead to the death of the viziam, and an influx in the use of the carthum to compensate. What I'm suggesting easily fixes the issue, and is an easy enough task for CCP to implement quickly. With the Viziam you either charge shot from range, conserving ammo and dealing major damage, or single shot, faster fire rate, and possibility of use in closer ranges. With the carthum it's auto fire ftw, but with the Viziam it's a strong game of tactics and precision from range, requiring actual skill. What I propose makes the weapon not so devastating, while still allowing regular use. first of all I have used the ion pistol since its release and have been successful with it even before its buff, the Ion pistol does not sieze if you use it right rather then just spamming it like a noob crippling the amarr by not being able to hold a shot? are you telling me you cant aim or that charge up mechanics make weapons too hard to use, so what does that say about the assault forge or any caldari weapon saying that the carthum requires more skill then the viziam just because its semi auto rather then full auto , thats like saying an full auto AK is more powerful then a semi auto one the charge shot currently takes little to no skill to use especially with AA being involved if AA wasnt a part of the game semi auto weapons would in fact take more skill to use and high damge could be justified this is also true for the BP what you propose ruins the weapons, perhaps not the ScR but the ion pistol works fine as it is and making it a mini ScR does not help at all even if for some reason it was lacking, auto seize on a weapon that can OHKO you doesn't really make a difference either it only further encourages the armor meta The Ion pistol is fine like it is? Next you'll tell me the bolt pistol isn't OP lol! My point was made, and the majority has said there piece it seems. "Anybody order chaos?"