DUST Search - Swarm Launcher Problem ( needs adressed ASAP )

lee corwood wrote:

Mikel Arias wrote:

Beld Errmon wrote:

Just as I said, despite the OP speaking almost entirely about dropships, mentioning tanks has framed the debate in terms of madruger OP! swarms not good enough! which i actually agree with.

Anyone that thinks swarms are balanced against ADS, needs to face a squad in domination that has more than 1 minmando.
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There are many ways to die in this game. You are in a tank and you are complaining that there is a weapon that can kill you. Sounds silly to me.

That's not the point he was trying to make. He's pointing out specifically that the vehicle balance argument is lumping in Dropships and Tanks as if they were the same beast. And they're not. Every time we've balanced the AV weaponry against the vehicles they've shifted it as a whole class. I've been AV for a very long time and I've always felt DS were never given the love they need.

For the tank, we all agree. There's arguments to and fro about:

money value of tank vs AV fit
1 pilot verus multiple players
dps and/or survivability between the two
ease of use between the two

It goes on and on and on. I've seen all sides of it. I was there when swarmers were actually smart. I was there when tanks were TRULY insane. However, I feel both DS and Tankers suffer from is a lack of purpose in the game. DS much more so than Tanks. Tanks we sort of molded to fit into a murder bot because the whole idea of tanker battles in this game suffers such a quick end game against one another that it almost forces you into situations of tank versus man. I feel we all would react to them differently if there use was more varied. Like using a tank to bring down a wall that offers alternative access to an objective.

DS I feel are especially at a loss. We've basically created them for the sole purpose of roof camping. They run into an area. I chase them out of it. They run away. They come back and we do the dance all over. They're basically a pinata. I've seen great DS pilots but still their only ability to shine is in PC battles where most of the infantry wasn't equipped with AV. The rest of the time, they simply excel at maneuvering away.

It's common for you to see a tank go 22/1 in a pub. You'll never see a DS pilot do that, which is the point he was trying to make. The conversation can never be simply AV versus vehicles. We have to pull DS and Tank apart or one will always be severely out of balance.


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Mikel Arias Challengers 506 159	Posted - 2015.08.10 01:09:00 - [1] - Quote Beld Errmon wrote: Just as I said, despite the OP speaking almost entirely about dropships, mentioning tanks has framed the debate in terms of madruger OP! swarms not good enough! which i actually agree with. Anyone that thinks swarms are balanced against ADS, needs to face a squad in domination that has more than 1 minmando. Pointing out that you can escape isn't really the point, anyone can fly in and fly out, if you can't actually stay long enough to do some damage, you might as well be sitting in the redline. I guess someone else already mentioned this somewhere in the post, but if more than one AV player, minmandos for example, are attacking a tank, the tank should be in trouble. Not to get destroyed easily, but in need of kiling those AV players. No one can expect to stay put if they are being attacked with weapons specially created to destroy what they are using. The funny part is that even then I still see tanks with hardeners survive after several swarms without even worrying. Yes, yes, they require no skill to use and whatever, but seriously, a good tanker would know when to retreat, and even if they are using a tank (someone said god mode, that was good), they cant really expect to not die even if an AV weapon is being used against them. Its like to expect that because you are in the red line you wont get kill; you sholdnt, you are supposed to be safe, probably sniping, and then BOOM, headshot with: shotgun, sniper, missiles, railgun, melee... There are many ways to die in this game. You are in a tank and you are complaining that there is a weapon that can kill you. Sounds silly to me.
Mikel Arias Challengers 506 159	Posted - 2015.08.10 02:05:00 - [2] - Quote lee corwood wrote: Mikel Arias wrote: Beld Errmon wrote: Just as I said, despite the OP speaking almost entirely about dropships, mentioning tanks has framed the debate in terms of madruger OP! swarms not good enough! which i actually agree with. Anyone that thinks swarms are balanced against ADS, needs to face a squad in domination that has more than 1 minmando. [...snip...] [...snip...] There are many ways to die in this game. You are in a tank and you are complaining that there is a weapon that can kill you. Sounds silly to me. That's not the point he was trying to make. He's pointing out specifically that the vehicle balance argument is lumping in Dropships and Tanks as if they were the same beast. And they're not. Every time we've balanced the AV weaponry against the vehicles they've shifted it as a whole class. I've been AV for a very long time and I've always felt DS were never given the love they need. For the tank, we all agree. There's arguments to and fro about: money value of tank vs AV fit 1 pilot verus multiple players dps and/or survivability between the two ease of use between the two It goes on and on and on. I've seen all sides of it. I was there when swarmers were actually smart. I was there when tanks were TRULY insane. However, I feel both DS and Tankers suffer from is a lack of purpose in the game. DS much more so than Tanks. Tanks we sort of molded to fit into a murder bot because the whole idea of tanker battles in this game suffers such a quick end game against one another that it almost forces you into situations of tank versus man. I feel we all would react to them differently if there use was more varied. Like using a tank to bring down a wall that offers alternative access to an objective. DS I feel are especially at a loss. We've basically created them for the sole purpose of roof camping. They run into an area. I chase them out of it. They run away. They come back and we do the dance all over. They're basically a pinata. I've seen great DS pilots but still their only ability to shine is in PC battles where most of the infantry wasn't equipped with AV. The rest of the time, they simply excel at maneuvering away. It's common for you to see a tank go 22/1 in a pub. You'll never see a DS pilot do that, which is the point he was trying to make. The conversation can never be simply AV versus vehicles. We have to pull DS and Tank apart or one will always be severely out of balance. Ok, fair enough, you are right, I was too focused on tanks. I do agree that dropships should get some love, and Im waiting for the DEVs to do something about it and I believe they will. However, I disagree when you say they only work to roof camping; yes, thats what they are mostly used (I myself do it trying to avoid someone else doing it), however, I have seen great pilots killed many players with a python and with what I guess was a prototype missile luncher. Its true that that is something rare and that there a few pilots who could get a lot (+10) of kills with a dropship, however there are, wich means ADS have the potential to be a force to fear in the battlefield. Also, if a dropship gets attacked by swarms and can take it (hardeners, shield or armor), it has the chance to kill the AV player, altough its true this could be difficult (I dont consider myself a great pilot or anything, but at least I have a lot of trouble taking out a minmando). If the pilot considers and knows he/she cant risk it, then he/she should fly away inmediatly, wich is something easier to do for a dropship than it is for tank, when at the same time it might be harder to find cover. Cover, by the way, its something I see dropships dont use a lot. I read, if Im not mistaken, that swarms can turn around mountains. Thats crap and if the swarm landed then you didnt really take cover right. What Im trying to say is that dropships do well, but they certainly need a buff to make them something more reliable and a bit harder to take out, however, swarms are in a good place, and a pilot, a smart one, could and should know how to avoid danger, by killing the AV player, by running away or by using cover. Finally, most of the time I see a dropship surviving just fine under attack by one AV player with swarms. When I see them fall right away is when they are being attacked by 2 or more AV players, wich is fine, thats a coordinated attack, and the pilot was cocky or wasnt paying attention.
Mikel Arias Challengers 506 159	Posted - 2015.08.10 02:53:00 - [3] - Quote lee corwood wrote: Mikel Arias wrote: lots of stuff I will admit that I overstated. I have seen many good DS pilots just not lately. I feel with the big changes in the game, many pilots skilled out of vehicles, which is a shame. I see way less pilots than usual and they aren't the great pilots I remember. I also agree with cover. I've seen many pilots which engage in combat use large towers, spinning maneuvers and mountains to such a great advantage that you can't help but cheer for them. However, seeing a dropship get anywhere near 10+ kills in a match...I haven't seen that in a long, long time http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQJEM9bMUbsW8GKRmMOR9k5SYCGwHpDnG1UKaz8mrdP5V40d91mZQ