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Carmine Lotte
Talon Havocs
11
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Posted - 2015.08.08 22:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
The Assault Rifle, as the most balanced set of weapons in the game it is at the moment the weakest. I would like to change the effect of its proficiency instead of 5% per level to Shield's I would try changing that to 5% raw damage per level. Yes? |
Sicerly Yaw
Corrosive Synergy No Context
772
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Posted - 2015.08.08 23:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
no
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
25
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Posted - 2015.08.08 23:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
The proficiency bonus is 3% per level, not 5%.
You are effectively proposing a skill-gated damage buff to armour. There are better ways of buffing the AR, I feel. If you really want the proficiency changed, a sensible change to the proficiency (which has been proposed before) is a change from 3% against shields to 2% against shields and 1% against armour to improve the hybrid aspect of the weapon whilst still remaining primarily shield specific.
Arkena Wyrnspire - CPM2 candidate
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
25
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Posted - 2015.08.08 23:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
Thank you for your insight. I'm sure everyone reading this thread will feel they had their lives enriched through reading such a revelatory post.
Arkena Wyrnspire - CPM2 candidate
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Carmine Lotte
Talon Havocs
11
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Posted - 2015.08.08 23:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:The proficiency bonus is 3% per level, not 5%.
You are effectively proposing a skill-gated damage buff to armour. There are better ways of buffing the AR, I feel. If you really want the proficiency changed, a sensible change to the proficiency (which has been proposed before) is a change from 3% against shields to 2% against shields and 1% against armour to improve the hybrid aspect of the weapon whilst still remaining primarily shield specific. My mistake I had 15% in my head and placed 5% instead of 3%. That is a better deal than mine. |
Kierkegaard Soren
Eridani Light Horse Battalion
903
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Posted - 2015.08.08 23:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
Give AR's, except for the TAC, a very small amount of splash radius and splash damage. Have the operation skill increase this slightly per rank. Have the Gal Assault increase this further.
Reasoning: General concesus is that the AR is underperforming because it A) has the worst effective range of all the rifle classes, and B) when it does enter optimal, it doesn't hit hard enough to make it worth the risk of rushing the enemy in the first place. Hence the popularity of the TAC, and to a much lesser extent, the burst; they have the range and the precision via scopes to engage opponents at a reasonable distance. If we try to remedy this by simply buffing the AR's raw damage stats through RoF or damage per bullet then it starts to tread uncomfortably on the toes of the HMG, upsetting Heavies (rightly so) and undermining the AR as a unique weapon in its right.
So, give it splash damage. Make it the fully-automatic room sweeper that can smash the suit its directly pointing at and burn any of his friends that stuck to close to him. The Light counter to Heavy-Logi trains in CQC.
It sounds crazy at first, but if we could get the numbers just right it would make the AR truly unique and really, REALLY dangerous at <40m.
Dedicated Commando.
"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
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DRT 99
RAT PATROL INC.
495
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Posted - 2015.08.09 11:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
shameless hijacking: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=210653&find=unread |
Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
12
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Posted - 2015.08.09 15:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
I'm still convinced that the problem lies with it's underwhelming damage bonus comparative to the reduced range it gets.
Between the AR and the ARR there is a 30 DPS difference and a 30m range difference.
My proposal was to decrease the range to 30m but jack up the DPS so it retains it's current DPS at 40m. Quite literally the only thing that would change is how the weapon performs <40m. This way there is a clear-cut distinguishing feature to it: http://i.imgur.com/LTOv5xd.png
Obviously it looks extreme but we can always dial it down a bit, the premise is still the same: Higher DPS within optimal = Better performing AR.
Aeon Amadi for CPM 2
Design A SKIN 2
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Kierkegaard Soren
Eridani Light Horse Battalion
907
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Posted - 2015.08.09 16:14:00 -
[9] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:I'm still convinced that the problem lies with it's underwhelming damage bonus comparative to the reduced range it gets. Between the AR and the ARR there is a 30 DPS difference and a 30m range difference. My proposal was to decrease the range to 30m but jack up the DPS so it retains it's current DPS at 40m. Quite literally the only thing that would change is how the weapon performs <40m. This way there is a clear-cut distinguishing feature to it: http://i.imgur.com/LTOv5xd.pngObviously it looks extreme but we can always dial it down a bit, the premise is still the same: Higher DPS within optimal = Better performing AR.
Very true, but doesn't that just make it the Light HMG? And if that is the case, and you want to fit for that kind of fighting, why not just take the heavy with all its additional EHP? To clarify, I'd take a straight up damage bonus for the AR any day of the week, because at least that makes it effective. But in an ideal world, I'd like the solution to the AR dilemma to be a bit more nuanced, and something that ultimately makes the AR completely unique *and* effective.
Dedicated Commando.
"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
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Carmine Lotte
Talon Havocs
11
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Posted - 2015.08.09 17:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
Kierkegaard Soren wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:I'm still convinced that the problem lies with it's underwhelming damage bonus comparative to the reduced range it gets. Between the AR and the ARR there is a 30 DPS difference and a 30m range difference. My proposal was to decrease the range to 30m but jack up the DPS so it retains it's current DPS at 40m. Quite literally the only thing that would change is how the weapon performs <40m. This way there is a clear-cut distinguishing feature to it: http://i.imgur.com/LTOv5xd.pngObviously it looks extreme but we can always dial it down a bit, the premise is still the same: Higher DPS within optimal = Better performing AR. Very true, but doesn't that just make it the Light HMG? And if that is the case, and you want to fit for that kind of fighting, why not just take the heavy with all its additional EHP? To clarify, I'd take a straight up damage bonus for the AR any day of the week, because at least that makes it effective. But in an ideal world, I'd like the solution to the AR dilemma to be a bit more nuanced, and something that ultimately makes the AR completely unique *and* effective. What about giving the base AR a BuAR Scope? Many times I just can't aim at the target I want correctly, I tend to use the Breach for hip fire and Burst for ADS.
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
6
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Posted - 2015.08.09 18:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:I'm still convinced that the problem lies with it's underwhelming damage bonus comparative to the reduced range it gets. Between the AR and the ARR there is a 30 DPS difference and a 30m range difference. My proposal was to decrease the range to 30m but jack up the DPS so it retains it's current DPS at 40m. Quite literally the only thing that would change is how the weapon performs <40m. This way there is a clear-cut distinguishing feature to it: http://i.imgur.com/LTOv5xd.pngObviously it looks extreme but we can always dial it down a bit, the premise is still the same: Higher DPS within optimal = Better performing AR.
You're on the right track there. I still need to sit down and look at the range DPS curve some more, but currently it's very skewed and the AR is feeling the brunt of that.
Pokey Dravon for CPM2
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Sicerly Yaw
Corrosive Synergy No Context
782
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Posted - 2015.08.09 18:41:00 -
[12] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Thank you for your insight. I'm sure everyone reading this thread will feel they had their lives enriched through reading such a revelatory post.
the question was yes, my answer was no. would you like to see a full fledged report like I have done more then once on as to why it should not be buffed?
click here if you are making a new account and want some free BPO's
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Bradric Banewolf
D3ATH CARD RUST415
1
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Posted - 2015.08.10 17:29:00 -
[13] - Quote
Sicerly Yaw wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Thank you for your insight. I'm sure everyone reading this thread will feel they had their lives enriched through reading such a revelatory post. the question was yes, my answer was no. would you like to see a full fledged report like I have done more then once on as to why it should not be buffed?
So why is that kind of dmg and range ok for the rail, but "no" for the AR? Seems bias....
How can you justify the rail rifle, and in particular the ARR, having that kind of range, dmg both in close quarters and at range, and accuracy?
More than once many mercs have made specific change suggestions that would still limit the AR effectiveness outside of 40 meters. All we're saying is a long range rifle like the scrambler, rail rifle, and combat rifle shouldn't be more effective than an AR in CQC since, per CCP, the AR is a CQC weapon.
Why do you say no to that?
Not saying it should get more dmg against shields. In fact the opposite was suggested. One merc suggested changing the proficiency bonus to 2% shield and 1% armor to make it more viable in CQC. Currently it's 3% shield. Shield suits would fair even better against the AR "AT RANGE"! This would give the AR a better shot at filling it's CQC role, while allowing shield suits the range advantage.
Are you just no to AR's in general?
"Anybody order chaos?"
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Bradric Banewolf
D3ATH CARD RUST415
1
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Posted - 2015.08.10 23:31:00 -
[14] - Quote
I would like to suggest an overhaul of the sights on the AR variants, both scopes and iron sights!
The scope could definitely be revamped on the tactical version to make it more of a precision version of the rifle, and less of hip fire spray with extra dmg.
The iron sights of the assault and breach variant is indeed difficult to get on target from range (not that they have much range). Perhaps a slightly larger front sight post, or better rear sight aperture.
From the operating end you rarely use that miniature rear sight, but firing a rifle with just the front sight post is unholy inaccurate?!
So many things can be done to make the AR better.... starting to feel like too many just wanna keep the rifle class down?!
"Anybody order chaos?"
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Sicerly Yaw
Corrosive Synergy No Context
795
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Posted - 2015.08.11 03:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
to anyone that complains about the range of the AR, you do realize the AR has far more dps overall about 30-40 points more to shields and armor respectively taking into account the damage profile that is so it does more overall damge to its weakness compared to the ARR and the ARR has an optimal of 72 while the AR has an optimal of 40m thats a 32m difference so about 1 point more damge per 1m lost
the fact that people seem to forget that its a anti shiled weapon makes the whole argument pointless
the RR and ARR both do less damge compared to the AR and its respective role, sure the RR and ARR will do more damge to armor and at better range but that's because that's its job, if you take a look at the RoF and damge per shot both the RR and ARR are lacking in those aspects but make up for it in range while the AR has more damge and is meant for short to mid range
the proficiency is not the problem, the problem is the ScR which does a far better job then both of these weapons, also the fact that a single ScR user and a few AR users forces shield suit users to engage only at range, and the fact that a lot of armor users use the ARR makes it even worse making it seem OP by sheer popularity rather then actual performance
the ScR throws a lot of things when speaking of balance as it makes the AR obsolete in comparison and it ruins counter play with shiled suit RR users as it does far more damge in comparison to both profiles at the same ranges far overshadowing the RR less now that it was nerfed but only due to fear from those that do not want to fall off the top meaning whatever these people choose to move to becomes the FOTM and seems OP in comparison when taking into account field stats which in case makes them completly useless when speaking of balance
I have given plenty of paths to fix this and bring parity to each role and weapon, the community just needs to agree on something rather then keep complaining about their gear and no one else's being UP and everything that kills them OP
click here if you are making a new account and want some free BPO's
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Carmine Lotte
Talon Havocs
12
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Posted - 2015.08.11 04:32:00 -
[16] - Quote
Sicerly Yaw wrote:to anyone that complains about the range of the AR, you do realize the AR has far more dps overall about 30-40 points more to shields and armor respectively taking into account the damage profile that is so it does more overall damge to its weakness compared to the ARR and the ARR has an optimal of 72 while the AR has an optimal of 40m thats a 32m difference so about 1 point more damge per 1m lost
the fact that people seem to forget that its a anti shiled weapon makes the whole argument pointless
the RR and ARR both do less damge compared to the AR and its respective role, sure the RR and ARR will do more damge to armor and at better range but that's because that's its job, if you take a look at the RoF and damge per shot both the RR and ARR are lacking in those aspects but make up for it in range while the AR has more damge and is meant for short to mid range
the proficiency is not the problem, the problem is the ScR which does a far better job then both of these weapons, also the fact that a single ScR user and a few AR users forces shield suit users to engage only at range, and the fact that a lot of armor users use the ARR makes it even worse making it seem OP by sheer popularity rather then actual performance
the ScR throws a lot of things when speaking of balance as it makes the AR obsolete in comparison and it ruins counter play with shiled suit RR users as it does far more damge in comparison to both profiles at the same ranges far overshadowing the RR less now that it was nerfed but only due to fear from those that do not want to fall off the top meaning whatever these people choose to move to becomes the FOTM and seems OP in comparison when taking into account field stats which in case makes them completly useless when speaking of balance
I have given plenty of paths to fix this and bring parity to each role and weapon, the community just needs to agree on something rather then keep complaining about their gear and no one else's being UP and everything that kills them OP The AR is an antiShield weapon and should have a bit of difficulty with Armor but the ARR cuts down shield's almost as fast as the AR in its range. Personally I would just add a Gallente Scope on it and it should be fine. Maybe a 2meter Plasma splash damage that does half for splash. |
DRT 99
RAT PATROL INC. The Empire of New Eden
508
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Posted - 2015.08.11 07:11:00 -
[17] - Quote
Sicerly Yaw wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Thank you for your insight. I'm sure everyone reading this thread will feel they had their lives enriched through reading such a revelatory post. the question was yes, my answer was no. would you like to see a full fledged report like I have done more then once on as to why it should not be buffed?
no sarcasm - i sort of would |
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