DUST Search - Buff low SP players in Pub, but not PC or FW

Luka the otter wrote:

Shadowed Cola wrote:

What?

lower HP isn't teaching them to adapt - it's teaching them to play a different game. Stop looking at this as if people are willing to dedicate to get better, they're not. There needs to be a reason too and it no longer exists anymore in this game.

so, if there's no incentive to stay it has to be through actual gameplay to catch them, and you're willing to let them suffer because...?

You are exactly right. We should stop looking at this as if people are willing to dedicate themselves to get better. And you know what? That's exactly why I don't agree with your suggestion of a resistance bonus. They aren't going to be 'getting better' just because they're taking less damage. They'll think that they're getting their kills and they're staying alive purely due to their own skill. And when they suddenly lose that resistance, when they suddenly start taking 20% more damage per hit from everything they aren't going to want to adapt to the new environment they've suddenly been thrust into. They're going to want to leave. Because they don't want to get better to adapt to the new damage output the enemy has.

Yes, having a lower HP sucks. But it does teach you to adapt. Do you think scouts go around in the open trying to kill everything they see? No. Because they've got lower HP and they know they need to stay hidden to be effective. Teaching newboots that they can't take a lot of hits and need to know when to retreat and how to use cover and positioning is what they need. Not a resistance increase that does absolutely nothing for them except help to pad their K/DR up until it vanishes on them and they're left in the dust wondering why in the hell suddenly everything is stomping them to the curb.

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Shadowed Cola Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 610	Posted - 2015.07.31 16:56:00 - [1] - Quote 15 to 25% resistance to all damage types, or some kind of TTK increase for them. Even if it means they only would need to spec into weaponry to be competitive - it would only be in pubs, not effecting FW or PC.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX Adult Entertainment XXX 31	Posted - 2015.07.31 17:02:00 - [2] - Quote Lol pubs... with the new matchmaking we have now only noobs can get in anyways so why bother? Dust User for CBM2
Ghost Kaisar Negative-Feedback 12	Posted - 2015.07.31 17:03:00 - [3] - Quote Because that won't be abused. People totally won't create low SP accounts to troll. Create Sentinel, Skill in with low SP. HP tank to high hell with a rifle. Enjoy your 1k+ HP monster with flat 20% resist and get a Proto Logi to rep you. Currently listening to: Tsukihime OST Un-Retired PC Scout. I miss the old days ;_;
Shadowed Cola Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 610	Posted - 2015.07.31 17:04:00 - [4] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Because that won't be abused. People totally won't create low SP accounts to troll. Create Sentinel, Skill in with low SP. HP tank to high hell with a rifle. Enjoy your 1k+ HP monster with flat 20% resist and get a Proto Logi to rep you. the cap limit of when the buff disappears would prevent a lot of the abuse, but ultimately, we want them to abuse this to be able to keep up in game, that's the idea.
Immortal John Ripper 28	Posted - 2015.07.31 17:06:00 - [5] - Quote what if shields had a 1.5 seconds defence boost at full hp? 30% damage reduction. With sniping weapons being an exception to this rule. if they are down by just 1 shield point boost will not be active. 1.5 seconds may not sound like alot but trust me it is. If I and only me had 1 extra second of reaction time on this game..... it would be like playing in god mode but since this affects everyone it would be fair. Players will have a little more time to aim, dodge, ect. ttk will be increased. another question is if we should limit this ability between tiers. like proto .5 second boost. advanced 1 second boost. standard 1.5 seconds. obviously proto is still superior but ttk on most suits will be increased so will will the challenge and appeal of the game. One day I am going to be on survivor and I will kick ass.
General John Ripper 28	Posted - 2015.07.31 17:06:00 - [6] - Quote what if shields had a 1.5 seconds defence boost at full hp? 30% damage reduction. With sniping weapons being an exception to this rule. if they are down by just 1 shield point boost will not be active. 1.5 seconds may not sound like alot but trust me it is. If I and only me had 1 extra second of reaction time on this game..... it would be like playing in god mode but since this affects everyone it would be fair. Players will have a little more time to aim, dodge, ect. ttk will be increased. another question is if we should limit this ability between tiers. like proto .5 second boost. advanced 1 second boost. standard 1.5 seconds. obviously proto is still superior but ttk on most suits will be increased so will will the challenge and appeal of the game. One day I am going to be on survivor and I will kick ass.
PLAYSTTION Corrosive Synergy No Context 1	Posted - 2015.07.31 17:08:00 - [7] - Quote Emm.... No. ??? Yea no. Imagine the Amarr frontline with this. 20% resistance to everything and the MLT Assault scrambler rifle and Ugh. Galassault Galogi Galsent Galmando Galscout `Open Beta Vet - 48 mil sp Director of Corrosive Synergy`
Shadowed Cola Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 611	Posted - 2015.07.31 17:10:00 - [8] - Quote PLAYSTTION wrote: Emm.... No. ??? Yea no. Imagine the Amarr frontline with this. 20% resistance to everything and the MLT Assault scrambler rifle and Ugh. You... really shouldn't be struggling against that, even with the increased health... but, any who, perhaps take the idea a step further, add a resistance penalty for using higher tiered gear, so instead of the full resistance for being a low SP - they get part for using higher end gear.
Luka the otter Bragian Order Amarr Empire 29	Posted - 2015.07.31 17:17:00 - [9] - Quote No. Absolutely not. What happens when they hit that point where all their resistances suddenly vanish? Suddenly they're getting killed left and right without any discernable reason when just a few minutes ago they were doing just fine. Giving new players a resistance bonus gives them too much of an edge, an edge they don't know about and don't know they rely on, and when that edge disappears they'll get frustrated and quit. Lower eHP teaches them to pick their fights and to learn when they need to back out. while a raised one just for being new means they may turn out harder to kill than a proto if they decide to HP stack, because we know barely anything else is useful at the standard level without all the bonuses skilling to 5 gives. Teaching newbs they can just run into damn near anything and come out on top is not the way we want our guys trained, especially when they're only doing it because of a mechanic giving them a temporary 'boost'.
Mortishai Belmont G.L.O.R.Y 845	Posted - 2015.07.31 17:20:00 - [10] - Quote Meta level locked matches would solve the problem. The C.EO. of G.L.O.R.Y, (~..)~ Now on Youtube ~(..~)

Shadowed Cola Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 611	Posted - 2015.07.31 17:25:00 - [11] - Quote Luka the otter wrote: No. Absolutely not. What happens when they hit that point where all their resistances suddenly vanish? Suddenly they're getting killed left and right without any discernable reason when just a few minutes ago they were doing just fine. Giving new players a resistance bonus gives them too much of an edge, an edge they don't know about and don't know they rely on, and when that edge disappears they'll get frustrated and quit. Lower eHP teaches them to pick their fights and to learn when they need to back out. while a raised one just for being new means they may turn out harder to kill than a proto if they decide to HP stack, because we know barely anything else is useful at the standard level without all the bonuses skilling to 5 gives. Teaching newbs they can just run into damn near anything and come out on top is not the way we want our guys trained, especially when they're only doing it because of a mechanic giving them a temporary 'boost'. What? lower HP isn't teaching them to adapt - it's teaching them to play a different game. Stop looking at this as if people are willing to dedicate to get better, they're not. There needs to be a reason too and non exists anymore in this game. so, if there's no incentive to stay it has to be through actual gameplay to catch them, and you're willing to let them suffer because...?
Luka the otter Bragian Order Amarr Empire 29	Posted - 2015.07.31 17:35:00 - [12] - Quote Shadowed Cola wrote: What? lower HP isn't teaching them to adapt - it's teaching them to play a different game. Stop looking at this as if people are willing to dedicate to get better, they're not. There needs to be a reason too and it no longer exists anymore in this game. so, if there's no incentive to stay it has to be through actual gameplay to catch them, and you're willing to let them suffer because...? You are exactly right. We should stop looking at this as if people are willing to dedicate themselves to get better. And you know what? That's exactly why I don't agree with your suggestion of a resistance bonus. They aren't going to be 'getting better' just because they're taking less damage. They'll think that they're getting their kills and they're staying alive purely due to their own skill. And when they suddenly lose that resistance, when they suddenly start taking 20% more damage per hit from everything they aren't going to want to adapt to the new environment they've suddenly been thrust into. They're going to want to leave. Because they don't want to get better to adapt to the new damage output the enemy has. Yes, having a lower HP sucks. But it does teach you to adapt. Do you think scouts go around in the open trying to kill everything they see? No. Because they've got lower HP and they know they need to stay hidden to be effective. Teaching newboots that they can't take a lot of hits and need to know when to retreat and how to use cover and positioning is what they need. Not a resistance increase that does absolutely nothing for them except help to pad their K/DR up until it vanishes on them and they're left in the dust wondering why in the hell suddenly everything is stomping them to the curb.
Luka the otter Bragian Order Amarr Empire 29	Posted - 2015.07.31 17:38:00 - [13] - Quote Shadowed Cola wrote: The clutch would only be so if they assume it's always going to be in effect. It's not just assuming the resistance is always going to be in effect. It's the fact that very few people are going to take into consideration exactly how much 20% is, and how much it will affect them when it's gone. Can you imagine how laughable scrambler rifles and laser rifles would be if they both suddenly did 20% less damage per second? Two weapons that are considered incredibly strong in-game right now? It's not people thinking they'll have the resistance forever. It's people underestimating numbers. Which is exactly what damn near all of this playerbase does.
Shadowed Cola Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 611	Posted - 2015.07.31 17:39:00 - [14] - Quote Luka the otter wrote: Shadowed Cola wrote: What? lower HP isn't teaching them to adapt - it's teaching them to play a different game. Stop looking at this as if people are willing to dedicate to get better, they're not. There needs to be a reason too and it no longer exists anymore in this game. so, if there's no incentive to stay it has to be through actual gameplay to catch them, and you're willing to let them suffer because...? You are exactly right. We should stop looking at this as if people are willing to dedicate themselves to get better. And you know what? That's exactly why I don't agree with your suggestion of a resistance bonus. They aren't going to be 'getting better' just because they're taking less damage. They'll think that they're getting their kills and they're staying alive purely due to their own skill. And when they suddenly lose that resistance, when they suddenly start taking 20% more damage per hit from everything they aren't going to want to adapt to the new environment they've suddenly been thrust into. They're going to want to leave. Because they don't want to get better to adapt to the new damage output the enemy has. Yes, having a lower HP sucks. But it does teach you to adapt. Do you think scouts go around in the open trying to kill everything they see? No. Because they've got lower HP and they know they need to stay hidden to be effective. Teaching newboots that they can't take a lot of hits and need to know when to retreat and how to use cover and positioning is what they need. Not a resistance increase that does absolutely nothing for them except help to pad their K/DR up until it vanishes on them and they're left in the dust wondering why in the hell suddenly everything is stomping them to the curb. Take the idea further then, either way you look at it, the current concept of NPE and bringing new players in isn't working. Part of the problem is the difference in ability and population - we're forced to play with them or get games that literally are empty. So if we have to play together, we need to level the playing field. It wouldn't be a 'sudden' change of life as you put it - it could be a slow build down from a once high resistance. The higher your META on your suit - the lower the resistance bonus you get. But a buff pretty much needs to happen since we can't expect a population jump to fill the games to everyones liking.
Luka the otter Bragian Order Amarr Empire 32	Posted - 2015.07.31 18:01:00 - [15] - Quote Shadowed Cola wrote: Take the idea further then, either way you look at it, the current concept of NPE and bringing new players in isn't working. Part of the problem is the difference in ability and population - we're forced to play with them or get games that literally are empty. So if we have to play together, we need to level the playing field. It wouldn't be a 'sudden' change of life as you put it - it could be a slow build down from a once high resistance. The higher your META on your suit - the lower the resistance bonus you get. But a buff pretty much needs to happen since we can't expect a population jump to fill the games to everyones liking. Yeah, it's true, new players do need something to make them want to stay. But I seriously don't think that a temporary resistance bonus is going to be ideal. Especially when, as someone else said, a veteran player can make an alt and use their knowledge of the game and builds to absolutely wreck everything. And it won't exactly be an uncommon thing to happen. A sentinel suit skilled to 5 gets, what, a 15% bonus to one damage type, and a 10% to another? Bumped up with the newbie support resistance, suddenly that's a 35 and 30% resistance to two damage types, and a 20% resistance to the others. They would be damn near unkillable if they had even a single logi on them. And some sentinels are already damn hard to kill without a bunch of added beef. But even with higher tier suits getting less resistance, that won't do anything but make standard suits the new flavor of the month. Can you imagine jumpy mass driver min-assaults with a 20% resistance? Sure they can't fit as much, but they don't need proto myofibs to be effective and a huge pain to kill. Hell, they don't need proto anything to be lethal if they're getting such a huge bonus from going standard. Or HP stacked logis with a nano-hive, a needle, and a rep tool behind an HP stacked heavy, the logi with a 20% resist and the sentinel with its 35-30-20-20. They can get huge bonuses from simply skilling something to five, but using the standard variants, instead. Or figuring out how to min-max by combining standard and advanced wherever they can to get maximum resistance and HP potential. And as long as they don't use boosters they can min-max and stay below 7 million SP for quite a while. And I'm sorry I don't really have anything to offer but negatives, but I honestly can't really think of anything to help out the new players without hindering them in some other way.
Shadowed Cola Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 611	Posted - 2015.07.31 18:07:00 - [16] - Quote Luka the otter wrote: And I'm sorry I don't really have anything to offer but negatives, but I honestly can't really think of anything to help out the new players without hindering them in some other way. There's no real balance to strike with our low population. Until CCP stop sitting on there thumb with PC, the only real incentive to get good in this game, there's not actually much we can suggest to help the situation that doesn't require the server side updates CCP isn't so willing to do. So, instead, we have to figure that the only thing left for us to suggest is to take away the parts of the game we enjoy to make them more accessible to newer players, and that ultimately means lowering the value of our fancy proto suits, or highering the value of there militia. Tiercide is an escape, not a solution, and with our low population, frustrate a lot of players trying to play this game competitively rather then pub casually.
Ghost Kaisar Negative-Feedback 12	Posted - 2015.07.31 19:01:00 - [17] - Quote Shadowed Cola wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Because that won't be abused. People totally won't create low SP accounts to troll. Create Sentinel, Skill in with low SP. HP tank to high hell with a rifle. Enjoy your 1k+ HP monster with flat 20% resist and get a Proto Logi to rep you. the cap limit of when the buff disappears would prevent a lot of the abuse, but ultimately, we want them to abuse this to be able to keep up in game, that's the idea. eventually, through the buff, they'll of experimented enough with this game to come to there own conclusions of how to play when the buff no longer applies and they have the SP themselves to be able to fight back properly. I'd put the cap around 7 mil. Still easy to do. Make two accounts, put the passive boost on one you won't use. It will still take quite a while to hit 7 Mil SP like that. Then just use the next slot and biomass the other. Remember, we had people doing this for ISK a while back, people will totally abuse this. Currently listening to: Tsukihime OST Un-Retired PC Scout. I miss the old days ;_;
Shadowed Cola Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 612	Posted - 2015.07.31 19:03:00 - [18] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Shadowed Cola wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Because that won't be abused. People totally won't create low SP accounts to troll. Create Sentinel, Skill in with low SP. HP tank to high hell with a rifle. Enjoy your 1k+ HP monster with flat 20% resist and get a Proto Logi to rep you. the cap limit of when the buff disappears would prevent a lot of the abuse, but ultimately, we want them to abuse this to be able to keep up in game, that's the idea. eventually, through the buff, they'll of experimented enough with this game to come to there own conclusions of how to play when the buff no longer applies and they have the SP themselves to be able to fight back properly. I'd put the cap around 7 mil. Still easy to do. Make two accounts, put the passive boost on one you won't use. It will still take quite a while to hit 7 Mil SP like that. Then just use the next slot and biomass the other. Remember, we had people doing this for ISK a while back, people will totally abuse this. and for it, you'd be getting, what? You'll never be like that in FW or PC - just pubs. And the cap probably should be lowered to 5. And a vet player will still be over-all stronger then you, you only have a bit of added survivability.
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 8	Posted - 2015.07.31 21:26:00 - [19] - Quote Mortishai Belmont wrote: Meta level locked matches would solve the problem. Would it? My starter frontline can decimate all of the Academy noobs since I still have all my cores to a decent level. Instead of gear, meta levels should measure the number of skills you have acquired and how many points you have into them. Meta 1: 0 - 10 skills Meta 2: 11 - 20 skills Etc *Scouts United* Gk.0s & Quafes all day.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1	Posted - 2015.07.31 22:38:00 - [20] - Quote My point of contention is that it doesn't take a large amount of SP to get a decent suit HP wise, especially with tieracide. Ehnaced shield extenders and enhaced plates/reps do wonders, even on a basic suit. You can fit a good 700- 800 hp basic suit for roughly 1 million. (level 3 armor, level 3 shields level 3 advanced basic medium suit of choice, probably gallente or amarr though) The issue now with low SP players is not how much HP a suit can have. They can have plenty. Rather its how much damage a experienced vet can put out. No matter how much HP you stack, if the other guy pulls out a profiecieny 5 prototype weapon on you, your going to be in a world of hurt. High SP players can hit back, where low SP players gennerally cant. At least not without a shotgun or an HMG. Just seperate them by improved MU, or metalevel. Much better than punching in auto buffs. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me. "I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati vote Tesfa for CPM2

Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy No Context 741	Posted - 2015.07.31 23:30:00 - [21] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Because that won't be abused. People totally won't create low SP accounts to troll. Create Sentinel, Skill in with low SP. HP tank to high hell with a rifle. Enjoy your 1k+ HP monster with flat 20% resist and get a Proto Logi to rep you. how is that any different then what happens with high sp vets? full resistance is already 10% and 15% to damage types that they are weak to and with maxed cores you get far more then just resist, you gain more overall HP better passive stats and can fit more then any low sp alt could hope to click here if you are making a new account and want some free BPO's


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