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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
12
   |
Posted - 2015.07.28 18:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
I want to start the discussion on an important topic here now that Warlords 1.2 has been deployed, 1.3 is now listed on the Trello and there is not much left on the Trello board to implement before CCP has to finally get ready to move Dust over to the next platform.
The problem is which platform to go to.
Before I begin I like to remind everyone that even though I am a PC player at times that doesn't mean that I am one of those arrogant PC Master Race folks. I also play games on the consoles as I prefer the best of both worlds.
Anyways, the point of this discussion is to help CCP figure out where the community would like CCP to most Dust 514 towards. We understand that PC and consoles have their own benefits but at the same time have their own downsides. Let's looks at those pros and cons first.
What would happen if Dust 514 moves to the PS4?
Pros:
1. CCP would not have to worry about transferring ownership of certain assets like BPO suits, Skins, AUR, SP, etc. as all the player has to do is log in with the same PSN ID that they used back on the PS3.
2. CCP would still have all of the data on the characters and assets on their own in-house servers. The player would not need to transfer data manually from the PS3 to the PS4.
3. CCP would be taking advantage of old Dust players who left the PS3 for the PS4 as well as players who would have no problem buying a PS4 if Dust was ported over there.
4. Because PlayStation Plus does not require paying the subscription for doing multiplayer in a free-to-play game, Dust 514 players will still be able to afford Dust as normal. There are other F2P games on the PS4 that don't require paying the subscription either.
5. Still be able to maintain the cross-platform connection that Dust has with Eve Online.
Cons:
1. The PS4 will not have access to a test server. You wouldn't want your PS4 to connect to the Singularity test server. Believe me. I have heard horror stories of what it did to the PS3s. It wasn't pretty.
2. CCP will still have to deal with Sony's approval process. This can be a problem if a major client update is needed ASAP in case of a problem.
3. Consoles don't have as much future proofing as PCs do.
4. Players will probably have to give up all of their ISK and maybe some of their assets as this would mean the game is starting over. Though some assets like BPOs, Skins, AUR, etc. might still be kept depending on how extensive Dust is changed during the porting process.
5. Many players who were hoping for a PC port will be disappointed.
What would happen is Dust 514 moves to the PC?
Pros:
1. Players will finally have access to the test server since a PC will be able to handle it better.
2. Dust 514 will be far more connected to the Tranquility live server and thus allow the server to be able to better monitor the game for any exploits like how it does now for Eve Online.
3. Dust 514 will be given an opportunity to be more connected to Eve Online if CCP finally decides to go ahead with their unification plans.
4. Dust 514 players will have access to better tools that may not be normally practical to implement on a console setting.
5. Future proofing is more guaranteed as you wouldn't have to upgrade your PC every 5 years. I still have my 9-year-old Dell XPS and it still runs fine.
Cons:
1. CCP will have to figure out how to transfer ownership of the assets from the PSN account to a PC-based account. They will likely be able to work with Sony on this.
2. Players might not be able to keep everything during the transfer such as their ISK. I'm confident CCP might come up with ways to compensate the players who wish to transfer their assets.
3. The cross-platform connection that Dust 514 has with Eve Online will no longer be there. It will just all be on one platform.
4. Many console players who don't want to own or are not able to afford a PC will not be able to benefit from this and thus become disappointed.
So at least here we can guarantee that a few things will happen:
1. Either group of players (console or PC) will be royally pissed off no matter which way Dust 514 goes unless CCP can somehow muster enough resources to make Dust 514 for BOTH PS4 and PC.
2. Everyone, no matter which group of players you are, will lose some assets during the transfer because... well... let's face it. Dust 514 got screwed over a lot with PC 1.0 in terms of ISK generation and distribution and this is the only chance we might have to address the problem we have with players who have excessive amounts of ISK because of how they exploited a broken system. Some of you will no doubt have objections to this.
3. Either way, Dust needs a fresh start.
One more thing I need to make clear.
Please do not bring up the old argument that we should start over completely from zero especially for new players. Can you imagine how annoying it would be to have your 40 million SP character reset to zero just because the game got a few new players? There will always be a disparity in levels between players in every game out there. Deal with it.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
12
|
Posted - 2015.07.28 18:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote:I would like to hear your personal opinion, Maken.
I made my opinion on this pretty clear early on. I don't care which platform Dust will move towards. I will still have my PC ready and I will obviously invest in a PS4 if Dust went in that direction.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
12
|
Posted - 2015.07.28 18:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
Titus Stryker wrote:Would a PC version be on Steam? If yes, than the console players could just use these and the only thing affected in their experience is their friends list.
It is possible since Eve Online players do have the option to get an Eve subscription via Steam.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
12
|
Posted - 2015.07.28 18:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote:I would like to hear your personal opinion, Maken. I made my opinion on this pretty clear early on. I don't care which platform Dust will move towards. I will still have my PC ready and I will obviously invest in a PS4 if Dust went in that direction. Ok, so you don't mind. But do you not feel that DUST would be better on one platform over another? If so, which one?
I honestly prefer both for the sake of not leaving out either group of players. But if I had to choose, PC would be ok for me. But a part of me wants it for the PS4 for the sake of making it easier to transfer ownership of the assets. So I'm stuck in the middle again.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
12
|
Posted - 2015.07.28 18:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
Death Shadow117 wrote:You make great points but why jot port it to PC to fix it, and then port it to PS4 ,after the game is working properly, as the next Gen consoles can be upgraded more. Even if they just put it on PC you could just get an alienware alpha gaming computer/console and be able to play console and computer games on the same thing.
That is another alternative. Unfortunately that will mean console players will have to wait and not all console players would want to buy an alienware they are not sure about.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
12
|
Posted - 2015.07.28 19:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:I think DUST should take the revolutionary step and become a Gameboy exclusive.
Why don't you go spend time with your cousin Judd instead?
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
12
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 02:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
Daddrobit wrote:For those rallying for Legion and or a port to PC in general, here's my issue with that possibility.
When you enter the PC market, you are immediately competing with literally every game ever made. Your game needs to be God tier levels of fun to maintain any level of success over a long period of time. I'm talking LOL, WOW, Minecraft, Star Craft levels of fun.
That or be a hardcore niche filler with little competition like EVE.
Legion however is just an FPS. That means it's competing with games like COD, Battlefield, Far Cry, Titanfall, Borderlands, ARMA, and Planetside. Super AAA titles that are always providing the highest level of real competitive and or fun gameplay.
And the accessibility and usability of all these games means that if someone doesn't like a particular game, it's just as easy to delete it as it was to download it and move on to any other game.
And on top of that, it's also much easier to look up ratings and reviews of games.
On PS3, to know how Dust was rated, you can either just go off the star rating the game has and say, "meh, nearly 4 stars, might as well try it," or you are forced to get off your console and go look up big name reviews.
However on PC, the reviews are right there, the thoughts on the game from everyone from Gamespot to Snip3rB0y99 on how well the game was made is sometimes available right from the same page as the download. Which means that when players bash on your game, these opinions are given much more weight on the overall success of the game as they are directly visible to everyone thinking of getting into it right from the start.
Legion/Dust would -NOT- survive on PC even anywhere nearly as well as it fared on console. With the limited number of games available to consoles, there comes a certain safety. Being one of the 15 shooters available on PS4 makes you automatically more dominant than being one of the 100s if not 1,000s of shooters available on PC.
About that highlighted part...
I get the feeling Dust will end up being on the PC as such. As a hardcore niche game with few competition. Sure, Dust is a FPS game with FPS functions. But how many other FPS games are there that have Dust's unique characteristics such as direct player trading, legal scamming and extortion, poaching players from a corp, and now item crafting which is on the way with Warlords 1.3? If there is any, they're probably not that many.
By the way, Legion is no longer going to be on PC because there will NOT be a CCP-made game called Legion. Why? According to the US Patent & Trademark Office, Eve Legion as a trademark is officially dead (aka ABANDONED). However, Eve Gunjack seems to be LIVE as a trademark.
Don't believe me? Look up the two names.
http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=searchss&state=4804:7yi3p6.1.1
My point here is that regardless of what name will be given to the PC or PS4 port, that port will be at its very core a direct descendant or reincarnation of Dust 514. Dust 514 as a name will likely stay on the PS3 but it will likely be given a different name somewhere else. We just don't know which and I don't think Eve Gunjack is even remotely related to Dust 514 given what we know about Project Nemesis.
Also, Eve Online was once thought to be facing too much competition on the PC when it first came out in 2003. This was against the likes of EA's Earth & Beyond, Blizzard's World of Warcraft, Sid Meyer's Civilization, Nexus: The Jupiter Incident, etc. And now Eve Online is said to be facing against stiffer competition from the likes of Star Citizen but even then they are nowhere near as unique as Eve Online except maybe World of Warcraft. But Eve is not dying and the numbers posted on Eve-Offline.net only tell you half the story until you read about what CCP did with multibroadcasting and multiplexing (bye bye, ISBoxer).
And if the accessibility of reviews on a PC platform are what can kill a game, then I am absolutely shocked that Eve Online still exists as a game given its nature.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
12
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 02:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
Kiiran-B wrote:Void Echo wrote:Kiiran-B wrote:Well from what we can speculate, ItGÇÿs unlikley it will port to PC so I see it maybe going on PS4.
At fanfest they said they are still working on Legion but that their main priority was keeping their player base on DUST514 happy.
IF Legion is indeed still being developed for PC and IF it is still on track for future release, itGÇÿd be silly to port DUST514 over to PC, theyGÇÿve stated that they intend to keep DUST alive even while Legion is up and running, but if anything was going to be ported to PS4 then itGÇÿs more logical to try and get the DUST playerbase over to Legion and then port that to PS4.
TL:DR: Dust wonGÇÿt be ported, theyGÇÿll use it as a guinea pig for Legion and if any PS4 port is on the table itGÇÿll be Legion.
Could be a long shot since its CCP but there you go. You can't get dust to legion if over 50% of the players can't afford pc True. Although it might attract PC players from EVEside or PS2, itGÇÿs a tough one. My point was that it wonGÇÿt be DUST that gets ported itGÇÿll be Legion, even without those people. CCP feel that they can do more on PC, and if that leads to a PS4 port then theyGÇÿll be happy with that. I donGÇÿt know, it could go either way for them. Either way I hope they learn and donGÇÿt make the same mistakes that they did with DUST.
I hope they don't make the same mistake either and I hope CCP Rattati is given charge of such an endeavor rather than CCP Z.
Also, please read my last post regarding the name Eve Legion.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
12
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 05:15:00 -
[9] - Quote
Daddrobit wrote:Maken Tosch wrote: Snippety snip. /Tangent/ Actually, looking at the EVE numbers there does unfortunately seem to be seeing some serious decline happening. The average concurrent online users is at a low not seen since 2008. /EndTangent/ While reviews may not completely break a game, they can certainly hurt it, and CCP is going into this with big name reviews saying things like, "Although Dust 514 might be free-to-play, it's not worth a moment of your time," and "The ideas behind it are clearly strong, but so is the disappointment." Being innovative does not guarantee success. It's all about the execution. MAG was hugely innovative with its own skill tree and massive 256 person battles. However, even coming from a developer that was around from even before CCP and was widely considered a powerhouse for good games with its SOCOM franchise, and even with its successful initial launch, MAG was shut down 4 years in nearly to the day and Zipper went under. Why? Because Zipper failed to continue to deliver quality content over an extended period of time. And that is something that CCP quite honestly has a horrible track record for. CCPs luck with people putting up with them getting it right "EventuallyGäó" is going to bite them here. EVE has a set playerbase and a fairly proven track record that they do in fact figure out how to make a game eventually to fall back on when things go tit up. Dust has less than 1 tenth of that playerbase, and no where near anything that could be considered a successful history, (outside of Rattati who is still recent). What CCP needs to do is make the safe decision and stay with Sony where they can get outside funding and QA from that won't leech from EVE because on PC they'll have neither option, and if Dust goes down on PC like that, it goes down World of Darkness style.
You do raise valid concerns. But just so you know, DO NOT compare Dust going to PC to World of Darkness. WoD didn't even make it past alpha testing before it was permanently shelved. Dust is at least making some money and it made it past beta.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
12
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 06:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:For PC cons, you forgot to mention botting/hacking/ISK sellers. On the PC it's a lot easier for cheaters/spammers to produce automated tools that will ruin the game. I really don't think CCP is capable of managing this problem with the existing resources. You're talking about hiring an army of people to keep on top of the problem. That's a huge chunk of the budget that could otherwise go to employing artists, coders, etc.
CCP doesn't have that kind of problem in Eve Online. They have an entire security team dedicated to just that alone and they are very effective at cracking down on bot users, RMT rings, and more. They even have a Fanfest keynote about it every year showing how they are doing. And let me tell you, it's amazing how much they achieved.
One little-known fact here is that Tranquility is a very peculiar server. It monitors everything and tracks everything. But it doesn't stop there. It has its own built in system that detects unusual activity based on numerous factors including human behavior patterns and then flags those unusual activities for the security team to then look into. They even figured out how to connect two seemingly unrelated accounts together that were involved in RMT rings. Just ask the Eve Online players. They will tell you this. No joke.
If Dust were to ever get ported over to the PC, it will only enhance the connection to the Tranquility server which means one thing. Big Brother will now be able to watch you even more.
PS: Any attempt to manipulate data streaming between the client and server is also carefully monitored in Eve Online.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
12
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 16:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
Alcina Nektaria wrote:I am not sure anyone addressed this point but.... What makes anyone think that EvE players will automatically pick up a FPS game if Dust is ported to PC? Generally speaking, Eve Pilots play Eve so much because of the ability to multitask and because there is so much to do. It is in no way a FPS game.  Some would argue they'd try it out maybe for loyalty to CCP, but I don't even think that would bring over a quarter of pilots. Not even the lore would do that. Also as I have said a few times on previous threads about this; How is someone expected to run two games on their PC at one time (ie: Eve and Dust) both require a certain level of attention, Dust requiring more attention due to it is a full on combat game. Aside from that, not everyone has a PC capable of running two games at once. This is why I think the whole "Eve Pilots would take advantage of this game" argument is a moot point. From where I stand it makes no sense.
Just look around on the Eve Online forums and you will see plenty of Eve players who are willing to play Dust if it ever gets ported over to the PC. Some of them are a little elitist, but not all them. But they are willing to try the game if it's on a platform they are ok with.
Eve Online is not that resource intensive from what I have personally seen. There is a common joke in the Eve community that if your computer is powered by a potato then you can play Eve Online just fine with multiple clients.
Because of the ease of which Eve Online allows multitasking, it is no surprise that a number of Eve players play other games while running Eve Online. If I recall correctly, I think Deezy was piloting his destroyer in FW space, fighting off low-sec pirates while providing OB support in Eve Online for Dust players, all while playing FW in Dust 514 at the same time. I think he recorded it on YouTube but I can't find the video. It was something he showed me while we were discussing how to improve FW for Dust 514.
So as you can see, it does make sense. If players like Deezy are able to pull it off no problem, then a pilot who is bored looking at the space rocks he/she is mining will simply switch to Dust on the PC while periodically checking up on his Eve-side progress since Eve Online now has audio queues that can be set to sound off while minimized as a client. It's pretty easy.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
12
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 16:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
In regards to my 4th point about the pros of porting Dust to the PC:
4. Dust 514 players will have access to better tools that may not be normally practical to implement on a console setting.
This is something that will likely benefit vehicle users such as dropship pilots. Since the dropship is handling like a helicopter, a joystick becomes more practical to have and use compared to a controller or even a keyboard. Although joysticks can be connected to the console if they are designed for it and if the console can accept the hardware, but so far Dust doesn't seem to be coded to accept the joystick so players are stuck with the controller and keyboard for now.
But still, a part of me also wants Dust on the PS4 for reasons I have already explained.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
12
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 16:41:00 -
[13] - Quote
BARAGAMOS wrote:So rumor has it PSN has announced no support for Dust on PS3 after December to prepare for the Valkyrie game on PS4. So it looks like it won't be going anywhere.
If that is true [CITATION NEEDED] then that only means PC is the likely direction for Dust. CCP did say they are interested in going for the PC as CCP Rouge said during his wedding.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
12
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 16:58:00 -
[14] - Quote
Alcina Nektaria wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:
4. Players will probably have to give up all of their ISK and maybe some of their assets as this would mean the game is starting over. Though some assets like BPOs, Skins, AUR, etc. might still be kept depending on how extensive Dust is changed during the porting process.
5. Many players who were hoping for a PC port will be disappointed.
1. Players will finally have access to the test server since a PC will be able to handle it better.
1. CCP will have to figure out how to transfer ownership of the assets from the PSN account to a PC-based account. They will likely be able to work with Sony on this.
2. Players might not be able to keep everything during the transfer such as their ISK. I'm confident CCP might come up with ways to compensate the players who wish to transfer their assets.
4. Many console players who don't want to own or are not able to afford a PC will not be able to benefit from this and thus become disappointed.
Just speaking on those terms above.... Not necessarily true about giving up assets. There are many games that allow you to keep all of your assets, money, levels, skills, etc. with a simple character transfer. This can easily be done with a simple code they can add in game and upon startup. A test server may actually be possible with a PS4 console because the technology in them is roughly 8 years ahead of the PS3 and they are in fact closer to the build of a PC than you may realize (especially with the ability to not overheat as badly as PS3 AND some PCs) And lastly on your points, I believe that people wanting the PC port are FAR fewer than the people who want next gen console port. That is a validated opinion just from what I have seen on various forum posts. Edit: Also, I agree with you regarding the starting over. I"m sorry but NO I would NOT play dust on another system if I had to start over. I worked very hard for everything I have including my 90mil lifetime sp.
For the record, I am ok with losing all of my ISK. But only the ISK. ISK can be easily recovered. SP, AUR and BPOs on the other hand... I want to keep those. I invested a lot of time and money getting these things and I don't want to let go of them as those are NOT easily recovered. But most importantly I want to be able to keep my name. I remember CCP saying they want to retain some of our progress somehow and hopefully even our name back when Project Legion was announced. But that was a long time ago and I am now worried.
But all you need is to use the email that is attached to the account and hopefully that is enough to help CCP do the transfer of your assets. Just remember that CCP already owns the assets that you have because they are stored only on CCP's servers. Sony only has control of your PSN account, not your assets.
As for SP in particular, that will depend on a how the skill tree is when Dust is ported over either to the PS4 or the PC. If the skill tree is changed as such that it requires less total SP than before, then we might see our lifetime SP be reduced accordingly. If it stays the same or if the lifetime requirement to max it out is increased, then we might be able to keep all of our current SP. But there is no guarantee that CCP will keep that kind of promise.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
12
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 17:04:00 -
[15] - Quote
Devadander wrote:The hook is cross-platform.
PC gamepads are cheap trash when compared to a ds3. (show me a pic of a bada$$ one for 500$ and ill show you a 50$ champion)
PC FPS are twitch through and through.
"Master race" gives you insight to the mentality of PC gamers.
PC=Microsoft=Beelzebub in most sony fans eyes, which is who you are surrounded by when playing dust.
PC= Screw you guys. With love, CCP. if FanFest 14 taught us anything.
I'm typing this from my PC, I game on the ps3, and I'm FAR from the only one.
I'm buying a ps4 in OCT. Even if it means not upgrading my PC.
MOST sony fans will be after a 4 by the end of this year due to franchise releases alone.
js
That highlighted part is one of the downsides of going to PC. We lose the cross-platform connection and end up on one platform only.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
12
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 17:08:00 -
[16] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Devadander wrote:The hook is cross-platform.
PC gamepads are cheap trash when compared to a ds3. (show me a pic of a bada$$ one for 500$ and ill show you a 50$ champion) You do know you can hook up a DS3 and DS4 to a PC, right?  It's easy. Or use an Xbox controller. KBM. Whatever you feel more comfortable with.
OH yeah! I forgot about that. I have a Chinese-made receiver that I can hook up to my PC and connect my X360 controller to. No, I didn't use the software that came with the receiver. I downloaded it instead directly from the Microsoft website.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
12
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Posted - 2015.07.29 17:09:00 -
[17] - Quote
Overall, what do you think of this discussion so far?
CCP, what do you think?
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
12
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Posted - 2015.07.29 21:40:00 -
[18] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Vell0cet wrote:For PC cons, you forgot to mention botting/hacking/ISK sellers. On the PC it's a lot easier for cheaters/spammers to produce automated tools that will ruin the game. I really don't think CCP is capable of managing this problem with the existing resources. You're talking about hiring an army of people to keep on top of the problem. That's a huge chunk of the budget that could otherwise go to employing artists, coders, etc. CCP doesn't have that kind of problem in Eve Online. They have an entire security team dedicated to just that alone and they are very effective at cracking down on bot users, RMT rings, and more. They even have a Fanfest keynote about it every year showing how they are doing. And let me tell you, it's amazing how much they achieved. One little-known fact here is that Tranquility is a very peculiar server. It monitors everything and tracks everything. But it doesn't stop there. It has its own built in system that detects unusual activity based on numerous factors including human behavior patterns and then flags those unusual activities for the security team to then look into. They even figured out how to connect two seemingly unrelated accounts together that were involved in RMT rings. Just ask the Eve Online players. They will tell you this. No joke. If Dust were to ever get ported over to the PC, it will only enhance the connection to the Tranquility server which means one thing. Big Brother will now be able to watch you even more. PS: Any attempt to manipulate data streaming between the client and server is also carefully monitored in Eve Online. That's true, but all of that behavior that gets monitored has to be coded into the server. It still requires manpower to review and enforce. EVE has paying subscribers to offset that expense. Assuming the DUST port would remain free-to-play, this could represent a significant increase in resources to keep under control. It's not something that magically happens just by running DUST with a PC on tranquility. You're still talking about a significant chunk of resources dedicated to solving those problems. Apparently the PS4 is more easily hackable though, so the point may be less pertinent.
From what I gather about the PS4, you are correct to assume that the PS4 is a little more hackable. Hell, there is even an article you can look up on Google telling you how to put together a PC to emulate a PS4 with almost similar hardware specs at almost the same cost as a PS4. And if what Jadek Menaheim is speculating is true, then we can expect to see similar levels of hacking on the PS4 as if Dust went to the PC.
You are also correct about the free-to-play model being a factor, but don't forget that there are players who are willing to spend more money on this game if it was ported either way. I'm one of those players.
As for coding the behavior tracking programs onto the server to take care of Dust, I don't see CCP having too much trouble dealing with that. It would still take time and resources like you said, but probably not as much as it did when CCP had to first start doing that for Eve Online back in the days when the security team was just getting started.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
12
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Posted - 2015.07.29 21:43:00 -
[19] - Quote
shaman oga wrote:Even if a PC game would be a better game (i own a ps4 and i hope in a console port), it would be plagued with cheaters.
The consoles are also full of cheaters. They just cheat differently.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
12
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Posted - 2015.07.29 21:50:00 -
[20] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:
Before dust 514 was created hardly any console gamers, psn, Xbox live or Nintendo ever heard of eve online. CCP meant for dust to be an introduction of EVE online into the console universe, that along with the stern fact that there is no blockbuster shooter title for Playstation on the ranks of halo for Xbox means that if CCP went with a pc port all the way, they are basically kissing consoles goodbye forever, CCP's reputations is one of the worst in the gaming industry, give that along with the fact that they essentially wasted 4 years if console players time (closes beta), nobody will ever trust CCP again.
As I pointed out already on my original post, regardless of which way Dust 514 gets ported over, one group (console players) or the other (PC players) will get shafted.
PC players like the ones on Eve Online are expecting CCP to port Dust 514 over to their platform based on what CCP Rouge said back at Fanfest 2014.
Console players are hedging their bets that Dust 514 would port over to the PS4 on the theory that since Dust is a PlayStation game it will force CCP to stick to their console player base. But those players are ignoring the fact that much of the current Dust players (however many they are) originate from Eve Online or have moved over to Eve Online because of Dust. However, they do have a few pros going for them especially with the convenience factor I mentioned earlier. So who knows?
So unless CCP can somehow pull off a dual port for both PC and the PS4, someone is going to get pissed off.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
12
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Posted - 2015.07.29 22:11:00 -
[21] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:dust will never be ported end of story.
this is the end for dust as technically speaking its been a financial failure.
Sir, as I explained before, it is not just the surface of the car. Your Trollsroyce needs remodeling and its superstructure is in dire need of reinforcing. Maybe if you hadn't gotten it too damaged before you brought it here.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
12
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Posted - 2015.07.29 22:20:00 -
[22] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:I feel like Dust is a console game and it should stay that way after the port.
However, if it could be ported to PS4 and PC would be best.
There is also the argument that Steam inclusion would allow cross platform in the form of PC and Steam Machines (not really well versed about these but they do look kinda interesting).
Either way, I will still be playing, I do think though that we should do a full reset for all.
When I say full reset, I mean, keep all AUR/AUR items and BPOs/SKINs as well as Skillpoints, everything else goes bye bye.
The question is how many PS3 owners will be willing to trade in their PS3 for a Steam Box?
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
12
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Posted - 2015.07.29 22:22:00 -
[23] - Quote
Talos Vagheitan wrote:PS4 and XB1 cross platform
As CCP originally intended
Just one problem.
CCP tried to include the Xbox 360 along with the PS3 but ended up realizing that Microsoft wanted far too much control over the connection to the Tranquility server.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
12
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Posted - 2015.07.29 22:24:00 -
[24] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Void Echo wrote:
Before dust 514 was created hardly any console gamers, psn, Xbox live or Nintendo ever heard of eve online. CCP meant for dust to be an introduction of EVE online into the console universe, that along with the stern fact that there is no blockbuster shooter title for Playstation on the ranks of halo for Xbox means that if CCP went with a pc port all the way, they are basically kissing consoles goodbye forever, CCP's reputations is one of the worst in the gaming industry, give that along with the fact that they essentially wasted 4 years if console players time (closes beta), nobody will ever trust CCP again.
As I pointed out already on my original post, regardless of which way Dust 514 gets ported over, one group (console players) or the other (PC players) will get shafted. PC players like the ones on Eve Online are expecting CCP to port Dust 514 over to their platform based on what CCP Rouge said back at Fanfest 2014. Console players are hedging their bets that Dust 514 would port over to the PS4 on the theory that since Dust is a PlayStation game it will force CCP to stick to their console player base. But those players are ignoring the fact that much of the current Dust players (however many they are) originate from Eve Online or have moved over to Eve Online because of Dust. However, they do have a few pros going for them especially with the convenience factor I mentioned earlier. So who knows? So unless CCP can somehow pull off a dual port for both PC and the PS4, someone is going to get pissed off. Just keep in mind that if the **** console gamers off, there essentially banning themselves from coming back to the console
Then pray to the flying spaghetti monster that CCP does a dual port.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
12
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Posted - 2015.07.29 22:26:00 -
[25] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:dust will never be ported end of story.
this is the end for dust as technically speaking its been a financial failure. Sir, as I explained before, it is not just the surface of the car. Your Trollsroyce needs remodeling and its superstructure is in dire need of reinforcing. Maybe if you hadn't gotten it too damaged before you brought it here. seriously though, dust is going to stay on PS3 untill suppport drops and then that will be it...
The name Dust 514 will likely stay on the PS3 anyways as I clearly stated a page or two ago given what we know about the recent changes posted on the US Patent & Trademark Office. If Dust ever gets ported over, it will likely be under a different name. No one knows what the name could be.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
12
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Posted - 2015.07.29 22:29:00 -
[26] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:I've always been pro PS4 because hacking/botting will be a bigger pita than on PC. But those are merely technical issues.
On PS4, banning the PSN account is what raises the stakes and this is what would be the primary deterrent imo. Hacking might be attractive on a throw-away account but never on a main.
Also would track mac addresses as well as do some datamining to facilitate banning an individual's multiple PSN accounts.
No anti-hacking/botting system will be perfect, but on console it's far easier to raise the technical challenge as well as the repercussions of cheating.
Finally and most importantly, this is only relevant if Dust is connected in some meaningful way to EVE, with the outcomes of terrestrial battles somehow affecting the geopolitics of New Eden and various strategic resources. If Dust ends up as a standalone second-rate lobby shooter on another platform, i don't give two fuks about hacking/botting because i won't be there.
People said the same thing about the PSN IDs on the PS3. Don't forget that free-to-play games are exempt from requiring any paid subscription with PS+ for the PS4 for multiplayer.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
12
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Posted - 2015.07.29 22:47:00 -
[27] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:dust will never be ported end of story.
this is the end for dust as technically speaking its been a financial failure. Sir, as I explained before, it is not just the surface of the car. Your Trollsroyce needs remodeling and its superstructure is in dire need of reinforcing. Maybe if you hadn't gotten it too damaged before you brought it here. seriously though, dust is going to stay on PS3 untill suppport drops and then that will be it... The name Dust 514 will likely stay on the PS3 anyways as I clearly stated a page or two ago given what we know about the recent changes posted on the US Patent & Trademark Office. If Dust ever gets ported over, it will likely be under a different name. No one knows what the name could be. no i mean dust as a first person shooter in the form its in not name alone. legion will never be completed (currently doesnt even have staff alocated to it....) CCP will go a significant amount of time without haveing an FPS title of any sort on any platform once dust shuts down.
The price still stands at 30 million ISK to repair your Trollsroyce and it will take 3 weeks to finish with the repairs.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
12
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Posted - 2015.07.29 22:55:00 -
[28] - Quote
In case no one got my references.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
12
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Posted - 2015.07.29 22:57:00 -
[29] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:
The price still stands at 30 million ISK to repair your Trollsroyce and it will take 3 weeks to finish with the repairs.
not trolling, its the reality that CPM2 is soon going to find out :P lets look at the facts Dust will not survive 2 years, its maximum lifespan is about 1.5 years from now. all legion development has stopped and staff has been repurposed to VR projects creating a new FPS is going to take alot longer than 1.5 years porting dust over directly in its current state (or even its 1.5 year from now state) to ps4 or other platform is definatly not goingg to happen the second the ps3 version closes down and its certainly not goin to happen before dust ends. therefore we can pretty much guarentee that theres is going to be AT LEAST a 2 year gap between the end of dust and the introduction of its replacement.
God damn it, John. You're not going to get me to lower the price of the repairs. 30 million ISK or I give back your chassis which was all there was left when you brought it here.
PS: Next time get insurance.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
12
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Posted - 2015.07.29 23:17:00 -
[30] - Quote
@Ghosts Chance
If you don't understand why I gave you such a response then there is no hope for you.
PS: We are trying to have a civilized discussion over here. You being all doom and gloom about the game is not contributing to the discussion.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
12
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Posted - 2015.07.29 23:56:00 -
[31] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:@Ghosts Chance
If you don't understand why I gave you such a response then there is no hope for you.
PS: We are trying to have a civilized discussion over here. You being all doom and gloom about the game is not contributing to the discussion.
PPS: If you somehow know this game is dead, then please leave and let us all wallow in our own ignorance. Clearly you are superior to us in knowledge. you should be focusing yyour energy enjoying what we have now for as long as we still have it, i hate seeing all this wasted effort that could be used to give the game a better sendoff. at this point people will be chanting for a port right untill the end rather than coming up with fun stuff to do with what we have. were not getting a port plain and simple. use your energy for something more useful already.
Of course, my lord. I bow to your every whim. Clearly you work for CCP and we should all listen to you and forget everything we just said. You are the master of your domain.
In case you don't get it by now, I'm just as sick and tired of people like you being all doom and gloom when we just want to have fun. You claim that we should have fun yet you come in with doom and gloom. The door is that way if you want to leave. No one is stopping you.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
12
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Posted - 2015.07.30 00:04:00 -
[32] - Quote
Anyways, back to the REAL topic at hand.
As you can all see from the pros and cons of porting to either platform, the community seems to be at a slight impasse. We all want a port, but there is no clear agreement on where we should go.
Considering that our current CPM1 representative Dennie Fleetfoot (CEO of Dust University) is running again for CPM2 and told us that he wouldn't otherwise has run again for the CPM if he saw there was no future for Dust, I'm confident Dust will live on in a different platform although possibly with a different name.
And since CEO Hilmar of CCP and maybe CCP Rouge and CCP Rattati together mentioned or hinted during Fanfest 2015 that Dust will be like a train that goes through various stops along the way, this only reinforces my belief that we will see Dust live on past the PS3. We just don't know where the next train stop will be.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
12
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Posted - 2015.07.30 00:07:00 -
[33] - Quote
Overall, I'm happy that the rest of the people posting on this thread were very civilized and upbeat during this discussion and let us all hope that CCP listens and perhaps also hope that the CPM2 will be able to persuade CCP to port Dust one way or the other or both.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
12
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Posted - 2015.07.30 00:11:00 -
[34] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:In regards to my 4th point about the pros of porting Dust to the PC:
4. Dust 514 players will have access to better tools that may not be normally practical to implement on a console setting.
This is something that will likely benefit vehicle users such as dropship pilots. Since the dropship is handling like a helicopter, a joystick becomes more practical to have and use compared to a controller or even a keyboard. Although joysticks can be connected to the console if they are designed for it and if the console can accept the hardware, but so far Dust doesn't seem to be coded to accept the joystick so players are stuck with the controller and keyboard for now.
But still, a part of me also wants Dust on the PS4 for reasons I have already explained.
What do you all think about this point in particular?
Besides Ace Combat, does anyone else know of any other console-based game that relies on a console-specific peripheral like a joystick?
Just added that last bit in.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2015.07.30 00:24:00 -
[35] - Quote
Meee One wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Anyways, back to the REAL topic at hand.
As you can all see from the pros and cons of porting to either platform, the community seems to be at a slight impasse. We all want a port, but there is no clear agreement on where we should go.
Considering that our current CPM1 representative Dennie Fleetfoot (CEO of Dust University) is running again for CPM2 and told us that he wouldn't otherwise has run again for the CPM if he saw there was no future for Dust, I'm confident Dust will live on in a different platform although possibly with a different name.
And since CEO Hilmar of CCP and maybe CCP Rouge and CCP Rattati together mentioned or hinted during Fanfest 2015 that Dust will be like a train that goes through various stops along the way, this only reinforces my belief that we will see Dust live on past the PS3. We just don't know where the next train stop will be. Actually the train reference makes perfect sense. 1)Trains can only move on rails,and if Dust is this said train currently... That would mean the rails are the console it's using to go forward. And the stops are the transition between console generations. (Dust will stay on consoles,even through console changes.) -or- 2) They thought Dust would fail,and they'd try to relaunch at a later date. (We dun goof'd.) I'm shooting for #1
Thanks for the explanation.
Yeah, I bet they did thought Dust would fail until CCP Rouge put Rattati in charge.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
12
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Posted - 2015.07.30 23:08:00 -
[36] - Quote
bump
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
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Posted - 2015.07.31 01:08:00 -
[37] - Quote
I hope the CPM candidates really do push CCP to port Dust 514 over to the next platform (whichever one) as this will be an important topic more and more as 2016 approaches.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2015.07.31 01:41:00 -
[38] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:How about we wait until Dust 514 is in a completed state before talking about porting?
Seriously. If we port it in this state it would be the same as when uprising first released.
Do we really want that to happen again?
The smartest move is re-release Dust just like Final Fantasy 14, just like Rocket League, just like Elder Scrolls Online, Just like Planetside 2.
Do you think any of those games would be sucessful if they hadn't fixed EVERYTHING first?
Porting anytime soon is literally suicide.
It's nice to bring that up because that is exactly what I said about this game last year and once more about 3 months ago. If you had asked me back then you would have my response of "I agree with you". But today, now that Warlords 1.3 is on its way and now that 2016 (the supposed final year of production for the PS3) is nearing, now is a good time to talk about it.
But I want to remind you that I do not expect CCP to do this immediately but rather read into this and use our debate as a basis of what to do in case CCP ever does decide to want to port to the next platform.
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