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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Galm Fae Eskola Ergonomics 432	Posted - 2015.07.29 04:42:00 - [1] - Quote Mina! Grabs Mina's face Look at me Mina. You and I need to work together to make the most badass Caldari special operatives for Lore support that we can imagine. Though admittedly the idea of a specific Caldari task force for the entire state is a bit troublesome, since individual companies all have their own individual paramilitary organizations all serving individual goals. Originally the closest thing the Caldari had were the Templis Dragonaurs, who acted as highly skilled insurgents and commandos for the Caldari Expeditionary Forces. They did everything from training to espionage, and the collapse of the Provost regime forced most of them out of office and likely left a massive power vacuum in the state for a unified inter-corporate task force to provide elite operatives. Oddly enough, I the way I see it this Task Force would function more like a UN coalition type force where you see people drafted from the Ishukone Watch, Home Guard, and other private military companies to aid in an advisory capacity for the State Peacekeepers. After the Providence Directorate finally fell, I doubt anyone in the State would be particularly happy with a unified government trying to consolidate power into a join military agency like the Caldari Navy. It would also serve to make Caldari special operatives characteristically unique from any other potential tier one operatives in the other Empires. That being said, the exact naming of this sort of agency would be tricky but I have a few suggestions on how to start. First is the most obvious: Task Force ____________ <---- Insert Psuedo Finn name here It's everything right there on the tin, an elite joint task force built out of the best operatives from different corporate entities. Alternatively: __________ Pathfinders Besides the connection it bares to the elite Canadian Pathfinders (who are just plain badass even if there isn't a direct connection to the Caldari) I really like the implications it has to continuing the legacy of the Caldari Expeditionary Forces before they were reformed into the State Peacekeepers. On the surface, the Pathfinders could be shock troops ready to deploy in small teams at a moments notice to secure an area of the Peacekeepers. On the other hand, this could just be a front for 'go into an area and train and arm insurgents so we have a reason to go in and keep the peace.' There are plenty of ways you could spin it depending on your opinion of the Caldari. ___________ Highlanders Though it isn't exactly stated, I've personally always felt a deep connection existed between the Caldari history and that of the Scottish. This title would also serve as a reference to the success of Operation Highlander as a sort of tongue-in-cheek reminder never to fail in the defense of a Caldari planet ever again. Personally I'm a fan of: Task Force Perkele (Perkele was the Finn god of thunder, which highlights the role of shock troops to these forces.) Task Force Ookami (The japanese world for wolf, which highlights traditional caldari wolfpack tactics.) Suribachi Pathfinders / Suribachi Highlanders (In honor of the battle of Iwo Jima) Simo Pathfinders (In honor of the legendary Winter War sniper nicknamed 'White Death' by the invading Red Army) Alternatively we have the names of special forces from the nations that the Caldari were born from. These include: The Teishin Shudan commandos of imperial Japan. Or alternative the J+ñ+ñk+ñrirykmentti of the Utti Jaeger Regiment, but suffice to say this is a mouth full so it might be best to settle for simply 'Jaegers' which still sounds pretty badass to me. Really any combination of these ideas would make me happy. The ethnic background of the Caldari is something really important to me, and I would be overjoyed if CCP would take these ideas into consideration when forming this living world that we all enjoy. *Kirjuun! Uakan! Teknikiara! Kanpai kameitsamuu! Ra ra ra!* > --Killer of Snowfall Station--
Galm Fae Eskola Ergonomics 435	Posted - 2015.07.29 08:21:00 - [2] - Quote Not really, but that is one argument. My mindset for the whole idea of an intercorperate task force is that ultimately the Peacekeepers are still in need of specialized agents to replace the void left by the removal of the Templis and the Caldari Expeditionary Forces, but no one wants a centralized government because the last time that happened Heth ran the State into the ground. Therefore, instead of a unified agency loyal only to the business tribunal and the Providence Directorate it's more like a loose coalition of soldiers who all represent the interests of their own corporation coming together to reach common goals. An important thing to remember is that the Caldari megacorperations are the spiritual successor to the Raata Empire, which was extremely similar to a Japanese daimyo but run under meritocratic rulers. Just like how different groups of samurai would join forces if Japan was ever threatened, so too would the megacorperations. *Kirjuun! Uakan! Teknikiara! Kanpai kameitsamuu! Ra ra ra!* > --Killer of Snowfall Station--
Galm Fae Eskola Ergonomics 435	Posted - 2015.07.29 08:45:00 - [3] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: That sort of thing you have to be careful about because the real life culture could look at that and get really, REALLY aggravated if it's translated wrong. One dude in the Slack channel actually proposed 'Kamikaze' because it meant 'divine wind' but that isn't what it means to most if not all Americans, so I neglected to add it for obvious reasons. I've run out of room to mention the rest. I am American, my father was in the Navy, I am a cadet in the armed forces, and I spent four years of my life working in a Naval Aviation museum in Pearl Harbor with veterans of the Pacific theater and I wouldn't give a damn if you named something 'Kamikaze' because I understand the cultural significance behind what the divine wind meant to the Japanese before an imperialist government decided to throw teenagers in airplanes at aircraft carriers. Not to mention the fact that the suicidal implications would have altered massively in the thousands of years between WWII and the formation of the Caldari State. Just sayin'. Also, how are you in contact with Mercury? I've never heard of a DUST member being affiliated or having contact with the ISD or Mercury in the past, so color me skeptical. *Kirjuun! Uakan! Teknikiara! Kanpai kameitsamuu! Ra ra ra!* > --Killer of Snowfall Station--
Galm Fae Eskola Ergonomics 435	Posted - 2015.07.29 20:00:00 - [4] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Honestly, CCP Rattati, you should probably hit up ISD Mercury - I'm sure they'd love the opportunity to offer up their expertise for something like this. Rather than the Dust 514 community spitballing =P Or we could, you know, actually place stock into what some of our community members are saying here instead of passing the buck off to a Mercury team that (as far as I can tell) doesn't give a damn about the DUST 514 community? I mean... Yes, Mercury should be kept in the loop and our suggestions should be confirmed by them before some sort of canon implementation into lore. Especially since, I suspect, established lore like this would make an excellent opportunity for a 'Methods of Torture' type lore series that delves into different special forces teams across New Eden. But I think passing the buck off to them is just lame when we already have a lot of people here who legitimately care and have put forward good suggestions to represent their Empire. Also, was it not obvious to you guys that this wasn't anything like a FW title threadt? The way I interpenetrated it from the start is that this would all just be in the way of story, with a possible implementation in the future for rank events like Mordu's Trials or maybe some sort of mention in The Scope. Which means all this butthurt 'it's too convoluted' arguments against some people's suggestions is all bull, so can everyone stop being so obstinate and actually try to get something done here? That being said, we don't call it the Caldari Kaigun, we all it the Caldari Navy. (Unless you're writing in Napanii.) As much as I love love love remaining lore accurate, I'd be perfectly happy with settling for something like the Caldari Pathfinders / Caldari Jaegers. I'd be very happy in fact. Incredibly happy. Overjoyed would be an accurate term. *Kirjuun! Uakan! Teknikiara! Kanpai kameitsamuu! Ra ra ra!* > --Killer of Snowfall Station--
Galm Fae Eskola Ergonomics 436	Posted - 2015.07.30 06:19:00 - [5] - Quote Mina Longstrike wrote: So one group I'd kind of like to reference to is the shinsengumi who I feel with some work could end up being a caldari 'elite' type group that would work well. Would require some name tweaking though. I like it, and I'd have to agree that with a bit of tweaking it'd make a fitting analogue for the elite special operations force that the Caldari have been missing. Reading up on them it seems like they're really exemplify the idea of a number of specialists from different corperate backgrounds coming together to form an elite team to be used in support of the State in any way they can. I still think we should pair it with a more modern title though to make something like the Roushi / Shinsengumi Pathfinders. Alternatively, if we wanted to get crazy, we could take a tab from Finland and make the Roushi Erikoisj+ñ+ñk+ñrikomppania (Roushi Special Jaeger Company, the RSJC). In native Caldari, that would make it the REJK. (Pronounced "The Rejects".) It's funny because before Caldari Prime there was a stigma among the Caldari that soldiers working for private companies like The Watch were only there because they couldn't hack it in the Expeditionary Marines. It's also a cool acronym, similar to modern agencies like JSOC and MAC V SOG. I know, I don't expect anyone to actually like this idea but... I think it's pretty cool. Alternatively, for the Minimatar (which are normally outside of my area of expertice) I'd recommend the Ulfhednar. We already have the Valkeniers, who are the Republic's big bad reformed prisoner soldiers, but New Eden lacks a more stealthy and cunning option in the Matari repertoire. In ancient nordic traditions while berserkers traditionally embodied the spirit of The Bear and charged headlong into the enemy front lines, ulfhednars were soldiers who strive to channel the soul of the wolf into how they fought on the battlefield. They would dye their skin black, don a wolf pelt, and band together in packs to take down opponents through skirmish hit-and-run tactics. Ultimately ulfhednar raiding parties were so successful that Europeans who fell victim deduced that they had superhuman abilities, which supposidly inspired some of the first tales of werewolves. While wolves are only a legend in New Eden, the idea of a group of Minmatar soldiers throwing on animal furs over modern chest rigs and placing themselves behind enemy lines to disrupt logistics and free slaves just seems fitting. *Kirjuun! Uakan! Teknikiara! Kanpai kameitsamuu! Ra ra ra!* > --Killer of Snowfall Station--
Galm Fae Eskola Ergonomics 437	Posted - 2015.07.30 07:18:00 - [6] - Quote I would agree, but the problem is that Berserkers come from the words "Ber" and "serkr", which means "Bearshirt" for the pelts worn specifically by berserkers. That having been said eventually the meaning of the word was lost entirely to other cultures and 'berserkers' became a blanket term for Norse animal warriors. I suppose we could settle with just plain Berserkers, but Wolf Berserkers just be all sorts of redundant. *Kirjuun! Uakan! Teknikiara! Kanpai kameitsamuu! Ra ra ra!* > --Killer of Snowfall Station--
Galm Fae Eskola Ergonomics 437	Posted - 2015.07.31 07:58:00 - [7] - Quote So right now where do we stand with the Caldari? The Rasetsu Special Jaeger Company would still come out to REJK, which makes me happy. But I want some sort of consensus between Caldari Lore experts before we settle on anything. In my opinion, the Caldari are the ones most in need of a new and definitive special forces than any other empire now that the Dragonaurs are gone. *Kirjuun! Uakan! Teknikiara! Kanpai kameitsamuu! Ra ra ra!* > --Killer of Snowfall Station--
Galm Fae Eskola Ergonomics 437	Posted - 2015.07.31 20:50:00 - [8] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Galm Fae wrote: So right now where do we stand with the Caldari? The Rasetsu Special Jaeger Company would still come out to REJK, which makes me happy. But I want some sort of consensus between Caldari Lore experts before we settle on anything. In my opinion, the Caldari are the ones most in need of a new and definitive special forces than any other empire now that the Dragonaurs are gone. The word "Jaeger", or anything German just doesn't sound like it belongs there. The REJK "Rejects" you're going for is cool, but it would only work in English (though would be cool if you could somehow get it to work in the Caldari language, but there probably isn't enough info on the language in the real lore.) Still hoping for Goryo Enforcers, or Goryo Enforcement Directorate. Or some word with double "U"s and/or double "A"s like Kaalakiota or Sukuuvesta. The Rejects part was never suppose to be a serious suggestion, it's just something that I thought would have been neat as an inside joke. Also the word Jaeger (in regards to a military unit) isn't exclusively German at all. It was originally Hessian in origin, with 'jaegers' acting as elite riflemen selected to offset standard military units by bolstering them with royal huntsmen and Forstleute. Jaegers typically acted semi-autonomously by acting as sharpshooters, couriers, and scouts. The program was so successful that they spread all over Europe, gaining prominence right up around the time of the Napoleonic Wars. (But Galm, so what?) I'm glad you asked. Y'see, for the longest time troops were incapable of breaching French (cough Gallente cough) sharpshooter defenses so invaded nations were forced to rely on drafted teams from line infantry to throw their lives away in a bloody and ill-fated charge if they needed to pierce the enemy lines. The Prussians, however, had the excellent idea that instead of just using conscripts as their elite strike team they'd train and refine a new Jaeger Corps to breach the frontlines in two man strike teams. Due to the success of the program mercenary teams were replaced with elite recon troops, corporal punishment became abolished entirely for Jaegers, and for the first time in European military history a soldier could increase their status based on merit rather than nobility. That screams the sort of meritocratic grit that the Caldari need right now. More importantly though, the Jaegers are just as much Finn as they are German. During World War I, Finland began a massive push to modernize their soldiers through introduction of foreign training. While Russia had long been planning to annex the country, the Germans hoped to weaken Russia by supporting Finland's independence and cultural identity. Thus the Jaeger Movement began, where thousands of officers were trained by working-class German irregulars while other officers were trained by Russian nobility. This drove a massive wedge in the country between jaeger-trained military officers and those trained by Imperial Russia. The country ultimately sided with the jaegers, which was no doubt (in addition to the guerrilla training they had received from the Germans) critical to their success in the Winter War. If you know anything about Finland's history, you know how important the Winter War was. Today the word jaeger isn't even considered so much German in European countries as much as it is synonymous with "elite light riflemen" and I don't think pigeonholing it into a strictly German practice is fair. I mean, everyone is fine with calling a suit a commando, but no one ever mentions the fact that it comes from the Afrikaans kommandos. Even then the argument of it not 'sounding right' is entirely subjective. Napanii uses loan-words all the time from the Amarr, I very much doubt they would have a problem with a 'German' word that's been a part of their culture longer than the Raata Empire. I feel like it's a constant thing, and lord knows I'm guilty of it too, that people want to rely on the crutch of Japanese culture for the Caldari without putting any thought into the equally important European side. tl;dr Jaegers are important. *Kirjuun! Uakan! Teknikiara! Kanpai kameitsamuu! Ra ra ra!* > --Killer of Snowfall Station--
Galm Fae Eskola Ergonomics 437	Posted - 2015.08.01 07:42:00 - [9] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Galm Fae wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Galm Fae wrote: So right now where do we stand with the Caldari? The Rasetsu Special Jaeger Company would still come out to REJK, which makes me happy. But I want some sort of consensus between Caldari Lore experts before we settle on anything. In my opinion, the Caldari are the ones most in need of a new and definitive special forces than any other empire now that the Dragonaurs are gone. The word "Jaeger", or anything German just doesn't sound like it belongs there. The REJK "Rejects" you're going for is cool, but it would only work in English (though would be cool if you could somehow get it to work in the Caldari language, but there probably isn't enough info on the language in the real lore.) Still hoping for Goryo Enforcers, or Goryo Enforcement Directorate. Or some word with double "U"s and/or double "A"s like Kaalakiota or Sukuuvesta. [GOOD STUFF] tl;dr Jaegers are important. Regardless of how widely the word got adopted, it still sounds very German, and it's out of place in both sound and spelling for Caldari words. And Templis Dragonaurs sounds very latin, but if you're hell bent to find a word that 'sounds caldari' then we can always go with the native Erikoisj+ñ+ñk+ñrikomppania . OR you can take my word for it when I tell you that 'sounding German' is a non-problem. *Kirjuun! Uakan! Teknikiara! Kanpai kameitsamuu! Ra ra ra!* > --Killer of Snowfall Station--
Galm Fae Eskola Ergonomics 437	Posted - 2015.08.02 06:20:00 - [10] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: I know they're the most boring of the 2 factions, but I'm interesting in your opinion, or what you would do differently. Well maybe with that opinion you should shouldn't be weighing in on either. [Stressful laughter and screaming from inside Galm's helmet] Seriously, I hate to shut you down since your ideas for the Amarr and Minmatar are on point but for the love of Tibus Heth don't take the Caldari from me. You ideas for them are feel kinda sub par and sound more like mercenary corporation names than an elite military regiment. That's something you can probably get away with in some of the other Empires, but the Caldari are by far the most militaristic and I'd like to see a proper unit being fleshed out like something equivalent to the 5th Dragonaurs Armored Division. And yes I am, in fact, still in favor of the 3rd "Ratestu" Special Jaeger Company. (I added the 3rd now because I didn't think about it until now and I like the number 3.) Because saying that Jaeger doesn't fit would be like arguing that the Amarr shouldn't use the term "Paladins" because it is technically a Frankish word. I beg of you, if you are really willing to forgo a hundred years of history because something 'sounds German' then please please please read up on the exploits of Simo Hayha, a White Guard (read jaeger trained) sniper who singlehandedly turned the tide of war in the Winter War. This dude was so badass he would shovel snow into his mouth so that his breath wouldn't reveal his shooting position to Russian troops and refused to use a telescopic sight when sniping because an iron sight gave him a lower profile when aiming. At some point he had entire teams of snipers and artillery units dispatched to have him killed, but he kept on fighting right up until the moment that an explosive bullet cleaved off half his face. He survived his injuries to go on and become a professional moose hunter and dog breeder until he died of old age in 2002. However, if even Rattati disagrees with me on this then feel free to replace "Special Jaeger Company" with the Suojeluskunta or "Civil Guard." In addition to being the Finn White Guard militia in the Finland Civil War, they were the force that trained (cough along with jaeger officers cough) Simo to become the force of nature that he was. Don't just force Goryo because it sounds right and it was the first thing you came up with. *Kirjuun! Uakan! Teknikiara! Kanpai kameitsamuu! Ra ra ra!* > --Killer of Snowfall Station--

Galm Fae Eskola Ergonomics 438	Posted - 2015.08.02 06:39:00 - [11] - Quote benandjerrys wrote: This thread makes my eyeballs bleed from the amount of tl;Dr needed. Let's get back to shooting from the hip. Maybe someone brave can sum up all I missed 5 pages ago. I'd appreciate that. tl;dr Galm Fae Shut your mouth and look at these Jaegers. *Kirjuun! Uakan! Teknikiara! Kanpai kameitsamuu! Ra ra ra!* > --Killer of Snowfall Station--
Galm Fae Eskola Ergonomics 438	Posted - 2015.08.02 07:24:00 - [12] - Quote Mina Longstrike wrote: No offense galm, but I think that your names might be getting a little bit toooooo wordy. I do like Jaegers though, but it should be simplified down a little. None taken, I was thinking that myself to be honest. The only reason why I kept adding onto it was because I was trying to make a military unit name and designation instead of just a title, just like how 'SEAL Team Six" is technically the Navy Special Warfare Development Group. I'd be fine with settling for something shorter, even if it omits the word 'jaeger' so long as in the lore it is specifically designated as a jaeger company. Maybe we could shorten the RSJC to something shorter the same way the Special Warfare group is just called DEVGRU. (pronounced 'dev-grew' or something like that.) *Kirjuun! Uakan! Teknikiara! Kanpai kameitsamuu! Ra ra ra!* > --Killer of Snowfall Station--

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