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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.07.28 19:56:00 -
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Bat-phoning the Eve Lore community. Give me a few hours.
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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.07.28 20:15:00 -
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Made a Trello to keep track of suggested terminology for each Faction.
Voting is enabled, so be sure to place your votes on the ones you like!
Bro from ISD Mercury (Lore team for Eve) said Don't get too focused on Norse terminology for Minmatar, they use storms and weapons too
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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.07.28 20:44:00 -
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A few suggestions on suggesting terminology:
1) It should be short and sweet so that it looks nice on the kill feed. 2) It shouldn't be too generic, as these are terms for the Elite. 3) It shouldn't be too specific. 4) It shouldn't be copying something pre-existing, like a Ship Name or a Lore Entity. 5) The factional cultures are more than the mythologies they draw names from.
Also, fixed the Trello to be public. Thanks KAGE.
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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.07.29 08:27:00 -
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True Adamance wrote:
And this is why I put no stock in this process. This isn't lore. It's an en masse submission of random and fanciful names supplied by the community with no context or purpose and wholly separate from EVE in its entirety.
Rather than focus on introducing and arbitrary series of titles that have no purpose and provide no insight into the universe of New Eden why not focus on actually bringing the context, story arcs, and histories of existing New Eden content into the fore of Dust. We've tried this before and no one was happy with the previous results.
Honestly, even though I'm adding all the suggested terminology I can find in this thread, I'm doing so begrudgingly and only because I know that someone would moan. Some of the suggestions are just awful.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:
I'm willing to write lore and context if CCP is willing to make it official (which likely won't happen).[/quote]
Even ISD Mercury doesn't get that luxury and they have to go through an insanely rigorous application process concerning the lore just to get their white tags. We're talking like cryptic stuff like, "What was the name of the person who was tortured to death by three Gallentean Government officials?" and "Why was the Wartime Powers Act instituted in the Federation?"
ISD Mercury works almost exclusively on the wiki and writes short World News articles which still have to go through CCP for editing before being officially posted. The only people who can write big-time lore like Chronicles and what not is CCP and CCP alone.
Even still, it would be incredibly difficult to get any official lore done at all right now. It is public information that there is a strong drive to undo all the damage to the Lore that was caused by Tony Gonsalez (the author behind Empyrean Age and Templar One) and the lore team is working adamantly to retcon or nyx a lot of the contradictory lore stuff.
For instance the Terran Superweapon which Empyress Jamyl used to knock out an entire Republic Elder Fleet with the push of a button that she got from cloaked Terran ship wrecks that were floating around the New Eden gate that no-one had previously discovered because #reasons. The same Terran Superweapon that was fueled by the mysterious Isogen-5 which when her ship exploded because the Thukkers were chasing the Blood Raiders who were chasing a Scientific Vessel that found the Amarr Flagship being protected by Rogue Drones who were sentient and aware of their presence ultimately coalescing to the destruction of the ship that thereby caused seven or eight entire -STARS- to go super nova for no ****ing reason which then caused the Seyllin Incident and hundreds if not thousands of wormholes to open up revealing the Sleepers who guarded all sort of awesome, OP as **** technology that could be used to make T3 Cruisers BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY the infantry clone technology that we use in Dust 514 today that originally couldn't be reverse engineered so all four factions simultaneously (with the help of capsuleers) committed mass genocide on the Sleepers to get their implants through their own immortal infantry projects that ticked the Sleepers off and made them start doing -THE EXACT SAME THING TO US- to make the Drifters...............................
You see where this is going? One stupid Super Weapon written into the lore by TonyG did all of that.
Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:Aeon - will you add us to the Trello or do you just want succinct lists by faction in this thread and you add them?
I'm hesitant to add anyone else because we already have a boat-load of suggested terminology and I don't want to show favoritism by allowing someone free reign over the Trello. I'm already considering adding additional labels or outright nyxxing some suggested terms due to potential problems with some of the suggestions as it is.
For instance, there are a few that clearly do not consider suggestion number 1, and if these suggested terms are to be used for Kill Feed ranks then it'll look something like this:
Aeon Amadi [Special Operations Capable] (Duvolle Assault Rifle) Jaysyn Larrisen
There are a few that borrow from existing lore or in-game assets, which would anger a lot of the people who delve into the Lore. For instance, I've seen Kameira proposed a few times in this thread and the reason I won't add them is because Kameiras, while Amarrian elite infantry, are almost exclusively Minmatar. They are trained from birth to become unthinking super soldiers that will off themselves at the first opportunity if they catch themselves beginning to question the scriptures.
So adding that as a suggestion assumes that any mercenary who got to the highest rank of FW is of that same heritage - which is total bupkis. But further more it a pre-existing lore entity AND an actual in-game entity as there is an NPC Corporation called Kameira Lodge. Which is already sketchy in and of itself if you read the description.
We also have a few that (even I suggested) are far too specific, such as Varyag for the Minmatar Republic. Which, if you do a little research you'll find that Varyag was the name given by the Greeks to the mercenaries that are the descendants of the Vikings. They were heavy shock troops that excelled in combat. I figured the name was fitting but when I suggested it to the guys from ISD Mercury they stated that it was very very specific and culturally infused, which is the problem with a LOT of Caldari suggestions.
That sort of thing you have to be careful about because the real life culture could look at that and get really, REALLY aggravated if it's translated wrong. One dude in the Slack channel actually proposed 'Kamikaze' because it meant 'divine wind' but that isn't what it means to most if not all Americans, so I neglected to add it for obvious reasons.
I've run out of room to mention the rest.
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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.07.29 09:32:00 -
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Galm Fae wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote: That sort of thing you have to be careful about because the real life culture could look at that and get really, REALLY aggravated if it's translated wrong. One dude in the Slack channel actually proposed 'Kamikaze' because it meant 'divine wind' but that isn't what it means to most if not all Americans, so I neglected to add it for obvious reasons.
I've run out of room to mention the rest.
I am American, my father was in the Navy, I am a cadet in the armed forces, and I spent four years of my life working in a Naval Aviation museum in Pearl Harbor with veterans of the Pacific theater and I wouldn't give a damn if you named something 'Kamikaze' because I understand the cultural significance behind what the divine wind meant to the Japanese before an imperialist government decided to throw teenagers in airplanes at aircraft carriers. Not to mention the fact that the suicidal implications would have altered massively in the thousands of years between WWII and the formation of the Caldari State. Just sayin'. Also, how are you in contact with Mercury? I've never heard of a DUST member being affiliated or having contact with the ISD or Mercury in the past, so color me skeptical.
You might not but others might and I think it's generally assumed to be in poor taste either way.
I'm in contact with Mercury because I've played Eve Online for nine years, actually -applied- to be with Mercury a while back, talked with them at Fanfest, still talk with them on Slack/Twitter, etc. Hope that addresses your skepticism.
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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.07.29 09:54:00 -
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CCP Rattati wrote:You are mostly thinking some kind of formal FW titles so I will clarify, but a few were on the right track. It was my question so I am to blame.
I am thinking more royal guard, or special forces types of secret undercover groups, or covert mercs in the employ of the Factions.
Black Water and Halliburton are much closer to what I am thinking.
Also, I am thinking in parallel to existing or old style of behind the scenes protectors like the Swiss guard or Emperor's Custodians, even the Three Musqueteers or the French Foreign Legion.
There is also the legend of the Varangians, who were swedish vikings forming the Bodyguard of the Byzantine Emperors in Constantinople.
Then of course Seals (Black Eagles) , Rangers *could be (Pathfinders).
I am not sure where I will end up using it, but I am curious whether we have this in New Eden lore, and what is our leeway.
One Mercenary could worm himself into the Empress's bodyguard, there is nothing that says that couldnt happen, even if its not an achievable goal for every mercenary.
Very interesting implications. But yeah, as I suggested earlier, Varyag (another word for Varangian) would probably be really good for that use then.
One thing I will mention about the Black Eagles is that they're actually -above- the SEALs in a degree because the Black Eagles are for Black Ops sort of stuff. Whereas the SEALs are meant for special operations that you might not hear about unless it's some prolific stuff (like the Osama Bin Laden takedown) Black Ops is more along the lines of stuff you -will never hear about- because of the implications involved, such as internal assassinations and what not. They're super shady and especially terrifying.
Quote:They make you watch it all, man. They make you watch through the eyes of the person you killed. It's all for show, really, but they do it so well. I saw the guy come in, brush his teeth, kiss his son good night... then I felt my bullet go into his skull just seconds after it shattered the window. Back when I'd shot him, you know, I didn't know anything... all I saw was a man leaning down in the spot where I'd been told he would be, then I squeezed the trigger, twice to make sure, and got the hell out of there. But they had to make me relive it all through this bullshit virtual scenario. They want you to know that you're gonna be called upon to kill innocent people, good people, Federation people, and that you have to be comfortable with doing it because it serves the greater good. Whatever the **** that's even supposed to mean. GÇöAudio transcript from "Agent Mornay," alleged Black Eagle defector
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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.07.29 11:08:00 -
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Honestly, CCP Rattati, you should probably hit up ISD Mercury - I'm sure they'd love the opportunity to offer up their expertise for something like this. Rather than the Dust 514 community spitballing =P
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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.07.29 11:48:00 -
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True Adamance wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:
One Mercenary could worm himself into the Empress's bodyguard, there is nothing that says that couldnt happen, even if its not an achievable goal for every mercenary.
Perhaps though if this presents an attainable rank or joinable sect in Dust 514 then you are potentially insinuating that hundred of individual cloned soldiers might be able to attain this rank. As you say while there is no reason to state unequivocally that this is impossible to attain there is also no reason to suspect it is possible. More than likely if the Empress required such soldiers as her personal guard then candidates would be drawn from regiments under the direct mandate of the Emperor Family or even Kameiras all of whom would be significantly more disciplined, zealously dogmatic, and utterly loyal. Also giving Dust 514 players a direct line to the Empress in terms of in game lore I think would be met rather poorly by our Capsuleer parallels. In this instance I suggest you look two levels down. Neither the Empress nor the Heirs would likely be caught dead with out kind at their sides though Holders, the High Nobility of the Empire might certainly call upon us for protection and other such activities That being said I'll still take this question back to PIE Inc and Samira, She Who Knows Ten-Thousand Things and see how they both feel about the concept and what they can dig up.
Samira is on Slack right now, I'll throw a link to your post at her.
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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.07.29 21:28:00 -
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Taskforce Phoenix for the Gallente? Seems fitting, to me, at least.
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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.08.02 00:31:00 -
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Berserkers (Norse inspired, real world context): born during the days of the Minmatar Rebellion, the Berserkers are a group of warrior mystics originating from the Brutor & Vherokior tribes. These Berserkers dress themselves in the furs of large carnivores, & claim to channel the spirits of these creatures through the use of psychoactive herbs & mental training. They enter ecstatic trance to induce violent rampages striking fear in both enemies & allies. These mystics can still be found within the Republic today as a well-armed mercenary group, but they still wear the furs over their armor & still fight in trance state.
I wanna touch on this idea specifically because it's actually pretty cool to me.
The main thing that appeals to me is the inclusion of Vherokior culture (notably what I presume to be hallucinogenic herbs) which has always been a favorite of mine. Being a mercenary group though I sort of think that maybe they should a more profound reputation that isn't -entirely- culturally derived, something like booster usage (here's a list) prior to and during battles to enhance the fighting capability. Give them an anti-hero vibe with loose ties to the Angel/Serpentis Cartel and a bit of unique flare like that; a reason to love them but also sort of hate them.
You could even mix aspects of the other suggestions you threw out to add more depth to their history, especially with a derivative Valklear lineage to these dudes as it just meshes well with the aforementioned drug use. A sort of "Criminals stay criminals, even after exoneration" approach. As though they've clashed criminal notoriety with tradition. The only other feedback I can give here is maybe come up with a more punchy name as 'Berserkers' sounds a little bland in the larger scheme of things. Make up a word if you want.
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