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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe.
RUST415
2
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Posted - 2015.07.24 04:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
There are two schools of thought when it comes to the changes to movement caused by myofibral stimulants. Some love it, relishing the vertical movement and the ability to fire down on enemies. Others think the "bunny hopping" combat is abuse of a broken mechanic.
In the interest of balancing these two groups interests I'd like to propose the implementation of a charge jump mechanic that only comes into play when a player has myofibral stimulants in their fit. To charge a jump a player must hold the jump button, which will cause there character to move at crouch speed as long as the jump button is depressed.
The jump button must be depressed for 2 seconds to jump to 100% of the height allowable by the modules. Holding the jump button for a shorter duration will cause a proportional height jump, and tapping the jump button will cause the merc to jump as they would without the module.
Finally stacking penalties will be imposed upon the charge time for each additional myofibril stimulant installed. These penalties will follow the standard stacking penalty percentages with a 2nd module causing an 87% longer charge time (3.74 seconds total charge time), a third causing an additional 57% charge time (4.88 seconds total charge time), and so on.
To Summarize
- Retain jump height bonus and associated stacking penalties
- Add a 2 second charge to reach maximum possible jump height
- Movement while charging will be reduced to crouch speed
- Jump height will be proportional to time charged for non-100% charged jumps
- Tapping will result in jumping like the merc does not have myofibril stimulants installed
- A stacking penalty to charge time for each additional module following the standard stacking penalties %
Rational in Brief:
The original change to Myofibral stimulats was intended to increase usage of an item that was all but ignored and open up new types of tactical movement. This change resulted in players being able to jump tens of meters vertically which players used to leap about firing area affect weapons at opponents who were unable to track the rapid elevation changes of their target. This movement was not truly tactical (in the grand-tactics sense) and while fun for those utilizing it was extremely frustrating for others who saw it as exploiting a broken mechanic.
By making players slow their movement and charge for a high jump it forces players to use jumps for traversing terrain (leaping onto roofs/boxes) or for a single in combat leap. These jumps could be used to escape or enter combat over a wall but are not going to be affective for repeatedly avoiding enemy fire due to the long period of slow movement which would leave mercs relatively easy targets.
As is traditional with all my suggestion threads I welcome comments and criticism. I would love it if someone could furnish the jump height bonuses resulting from stacking varying numbers and types of myofibral stimulants so that I can make a number of module jump height bonus vs charge time graph.
Now with more evil.
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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe.
RUST415
2
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Posted - 2015.07.24 13:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
Sure, the movement is predictable and you can even react to it when you are at range but that isn't when people take issue with the jumping. Repeated jumping becomes frustrating at close range where the high speed changes make tracking a bouncing player all but impossible. This tactic is almost always combined with area effect weapons like the mass driver which you agreed was frustrating since the bouncing player doesn't have to aim.
As you rightly pointed out this is also not a problem in confined spaces but very few areas in any of the maps are cramped enough for that to really be a limiting factor. Close range high speed jumping is problematic in the majority of our gameplay area.
Furthermore, you ignored my point about the reimagining of this mechanic to make it a more limited tactical choice rather than a run and gun one. This is from my perspective the larger benefit of the proposed change.
Out of interest Aeon what do you propose instead? Would you rather stay with the status quo? Would you like to make the jumping even more agressive and rapid?
Now with more evil.
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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe.
RUST415
2
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Posted - 2015.07.24 19:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
What do you guys think about the charge time? Too long, too short or just right? I feel like making it too long would make the module useless and too short would not solve the problems the module currently has.
Now with more evil.
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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe.
RUST415
2
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Posted - 2015.07.24 22:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
TheEnd762 wrote:My only problem with the suggestion is it reduces their effectiveness against vehicles, which is perfectly balanced.
Could you be a bit more specific? I've never seen the bouncing tactic used against vehicles and can't really think about it clearly right now. Would you bounce about and throw RE/fire plasma/fire swarms to avoid being shot? How well does that work vs blasters (I'm sure it is pretty decent against missiles and rails)?
Is there anyway you could see the proposal being modified to allow the jumping to retain effectiveness against vehicles while meeting the stated goals for changes to movement and infantry battles?
Now with more evil.
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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe.
RUST415
2
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Posted - 2015.07.25 02:52:00 -
[5] - Quote
Stile451 wrote:I really enjoy using them as is. It's currently the only way to break aim assist and then only in close quarters.
I do not like the speed reduction at all as it prevents players like me to use them to get into hard to reach places which require a running jump.
Having a charge time is OK as long as sprinting wouldn't break it(see above for why). It wouldn't even need the proposed stacking penalties as being stuck 2 seconds on the ground would be death to any player specialized in mobility.
I will admit that I did consider the movement penalty as a hinderance to exactly the kind of movement I wished to promote but I think you'll still be able to leap over small obstacles and onto high objects. I could definitely go the other way though and I'm sure there are members of the community that would want a movement penalty as well.
Let's open this up to the crowd, which of the following sound like a more balanced mechanic for this module:
1) Movement reduction to crouch speed while charging
2) Movement reduction to walking speed while charging, sprinting is not possible
3) No movement penalties at all when charging, sprinting permitted
Chime in with opinions and evidentiary annectdotes and I may be swayed to change the proposal.
Now with more evil.
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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe.
RUST415
2
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Posted - 2015.07.25 04:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
Stile451 wrote:Having thought about charge times some more I believe a fixed charge time(your original 2 seconds seems reasonable although I would prefer 1 second but that's likely me being biased) with no stacking penalty would be best as having different suits would require different memorization of charge times which would be bad for the player experience(imagine how annoying and possibly fatal it would be if grenades had different timings - it would be just as bad with charged jumps).
Let's open this idea up for discussion too:
1) stacking penalty based charge time
2) flat 2 second charge time.
I'm leaving out the 1 second charge time as I really don't think that is large enough to force movement to be tactical rather than reactionary. 2 seconds is enough time for a enemy to destroy a light frame caught unaware and would discourage bouncing about as a combat technique.
My rational for inclusion of the stacking mechanic was to provide a balance to the increased height attained by stacking. The higher you want to jump the longer you have to wait this would make higher and more potentially beneficial jumps more risky. Balanced risk reward mechanics like this are better for overall game balance. Additionally I like the potential flavor text that could be built around the stacking.
Community members, what do you think? We have two well explained view ponta and I want to present the debs with an idea that keeps the module useful but doesn't allow the abuse many players complain about to continue. The more comments and discussion we have here the more likely we are to elicit dev attention.
Now with more evil.
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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe.
RUST415
2
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Posted - 2015.07.25 07:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
E-Rock wrote:those suits are so weak that they are easy to kill. My suggestion 1) get some gun game 2) get some gun game 3) don't complain 4)get some gun game
E-Rock. I am disappointed in your lack of vision and boring troll-y style. You have fallen so far and are no longer invited to the "Cool Kids Squad"
Now with more evil.
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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe.
RUST415
2
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Posted - 2015.07.25 15:33:00 -
[8] - Quote
E-Rock wrote:E-Rock wrote:those suits are so weak that they are easy to kill. My suggestion 1) get some gun game 2) get some gun game 3) don't complain 4)get some gun game come on man. i think that it is a part of the game that we should have to deal with because if it was truly overpowered, you would see everybody running them. The real killers are stacked with HP and run fast on the ground
Now that is more like. Actual commentary is much more appreciated.
You aren't the first to tell this to me btw. ThorOdinson42 was pretty hostile to the idea on our Facebook chat with some similar rational and SirManBoy was ambivalent on the same grounds. Should revise my earlier statements if they make it look like bunny hopping players are still extremely common.
My only counter argument, and I think it is a good one, is that just because abusing the mechanic isn't something many people currently do that doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed. The analogy here is a broken sink in your house that doesn't drain right. Sure, you can ignore that bathroom since you have another anyway. Circumstances change though and when you have guests over that broken sink is going to be a serious pain.
While Dust's current state is such that the bunny hopping doesn't really matter that doesn't mean it won't be a major issue going forward or that it isn't broken right now. If anything when something isn't an issue is when it is best to fix it.
Now with more evil.
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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe.
RUST415
2
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Posted - 2015.07.25 15:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
I have been swayed by people both here and in Molon's Facebook chats and am changing the original post to no longer include the movement penalty.
Now with more evil.
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