Zaria Min Deir
0uter.Heaven
1
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Posted - 2015.07.21 12:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote: A. OP - Armor Modules (Infantry) Which aspects in particular do you have issues with? I'll admit that shields still feel too weak compared to armor, but I'm not sure if that means armor is necessarily OP.
A1. Preface - It is my opinion that loadout variety is a strong indicator of balance, and that a lack thereof is indicative of imbalance. Looking at the usage rates, we see diversity in high-slot module utilization. In essence, high-slot modules other than Shields (namely, precision enhancers, myofibs, damage amps) are seeing sufficiently high levels of usage to make the daily Top 10 every day. By contrast, 9 of the top 10 low-slot modules sold every day are brick-related, and the one non-brick module (KinCats) which makes the list just so happens to offset a penalty to stacking brick. In summary, when we look at daily high-slot module usage, we see balance; when we look at low-slot module usage, we see imbalance. A2. Response - If we nerfed armor plates or introduced greater drawbacks to stacking them, mercs would be less inclined to stack brick and more inclined to run other things. There's a good chance we'd observe an increase in loadout diversity. If we buffed shields, on the other hand, there's a good chance we'd observe a decrease in loadout diversity as high-slot HP modules would potentially crowd out non-HP modules. In my estimation, a broader problem than Armor v Shield balance is at play here; that problem is the potential for HP Modules > All Else. Hm. I wanted to disagree slightly with your statement there... " 9 of the top 10 low-slot modules sold every day are brick-related". Yes, regular armour plates are still too heavily featured in that list, but both ferroscales and reactive plates at multiple tiers also make the list, and they are at the very least a step away from pure bricking, though, yes, they are HP modules. But I really wouldn't call the armour repairer a bricking module. Frankly, regen tanking is not the same thing as HP bricking, both for armour and shields, even if you go for a mix of both buffer and regen. Using regen modules by default detracts from the ability to stack pure HP, thus making the fit not bricked by definition (even though, yes, still mainly focused on HP).
However, I do agree, and have long been frustrated over, that "HP Modules > All Else". I think one of the issues here is that still, even after the changes to armour plates, a simple HP module is easier to fit than most other things, for low slots in particular, or at the very least, the perceived benefit to fitting cost ratio simply makes most other modules lackluster in comparison. And in the case of a utility module that might even be easier to fit, the actual effectiveness of it may be hard to visualise or understand in comparison to how easy the added HP is to see in the fitting screen. I believe that utility and regen modules should be more attractive to fit than HP modules, and until it is so, HP will continue to be the most used module type simply for expediency.
And another thing.. You have to also figure that some modules may not ever feature in the top 10 simply by their nature, without that indicating them being underutilised. For example, scouts are just one of the five infantry roles in the game, but they are really the only class that can get any great utility out of dampeners. Not saying that dampeners aren't ever used by non-scouts, they are, but that is currently far from common. Codebreakers, by their nature, are situational... That is not to say there aren't people who run around with them fitted more often than not, but generally speaking that is not the case, and then you have to figure in that they aren't even useful in all the game modes. Or for the highslots, precisicion enhancers can be, and are, used to great effectiveness, but I still would be quite surprised to find them in the top 10. Now, it is entirely possible that those modules are underutilised, but this particular graph isn't useful in demonstrating that.
Running for CPM2
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Zaria Min Deir
0uter.Heaven
1
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Posted - 2015.07.21 13:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Zaria Min Deir wrote: Or for the highslots, precisicion enhancers can be, and are, used to great effectiveness, but I still would be quite surprised to find them in the top 10. Agreed on all points. Though I would point out (in response to above) that Precision Enhancers routinely make the Top 10. Albeit barely; they're typically in the last position or two. This has been the case since December 2014. Hmm. I will take your word on that, as though I have never seen them there, I will admit I haven't looked very often :)
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Zaria Min Deir
0uter.Heaven
1
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Posted - 2015.07.21 13:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:
7. Zaria Min Deir said so.
Always a good reason to do something.
But I said what now? Ah, yes, something about shared passive scans, and how I personally would be happy to be rid of them. They are indeed problematic. I will say Tesfa makes some good points about the emphasis placed on squad versus solo play, however... I also find there to be a good case to be made for a clear difference between active scans that are more easily accessible to the squad, but are limited in duration and frequence and need to be, by their very nature, more proactive, and passive scans, that are, yes, limited by location, but are more immediate, and thus should perhaps be limited to personal use.
Now, removing shared passive scans would limit the scout recon role somewhat. As Tesfa rightly pointed out, there are language barriers and not everyone can use voice comms, either at all or all the time. Not the simplest issue. In the end it comes down to what the designed purpose of the roles and the types of scanning are...
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Zaria Min Deir
0uter.Heaven
1
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Posted - 2015.07.21 15:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote:Regarding armour modules, I think the issue is not that they are overpowered compared to shields, but that there is a wider variety of good high slot modules.
In high slots, Myobifs and damage mods are both good and common, (though I think heavy damage mods should mirror light in %).
In low slots I can see why armour is preferred. Shield regulators are only good at proto, and shield energisers aren't good enough to compliment them for many people to focus on a shield regen build. Cardiac regulators are good but of limited use. Kinetic catalysers are only really good at complex, and have huge fitting costs, particularly at lower tiers. Codebreakers have ridiculous fitting costs for the benefit, and are only good at complex. Range amps have been nerfed to oblivion. This also affects the viability of precision mods. Profile dampeners are rarely useful on suits other than scouts due to the ever present danger that the enemy will field a Gal logi. The precision bonus should be replaced to allow more suits to fit for stealth if they wish.
High slot mods that need a buff: Shield energisers/rechargers. They don't give enough benefit for the module sacrifice. Also, lower tiers are worthless. Heavy damage mods. The Amarr sentinel is the most common because nobody cares that it only has one high slot. With decent damage mods a Gallente heavy would be much more viable, with the extra damage it could output. This. Not exactly a question of the armour modules being too good, but rather the alternatives often not being good enough in comparison.
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