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Larkson Crazy Eye
WarRavens
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
92
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Posted - 2015.07.18 01:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
I didn't really read every post.. or even all of the first post. This thread seemed to have deteriorated pretty fast. That said your earnings has nothing to do with getting paid, just the enemy losses and your rank on the team. True higher WP might make you rank one, but the difference between the top 2-3 positions isn't usually that huge.
Being a logi is a pretty unrewarding experience in every way other than WP. Your suits are rather expensive in that your fielding a full 8-9 mods between the high/low slots. A weapon, 3-4 equipment slots and a grenade. Everyone wants a logi to run proto equip, f they get picked up with less than 90% HP and die they whine like babies in a lot of cases and blame the logi for even trying. Pick ups get more logi killed than anything else. Your extremely vulnerable and people tend to call out even if their in the open under fire.
By the sounds of things your a scout, with 2-3 equipment slots. I doubt you have a needle despite your claims it would save the team. Which leads to the other problem being a logi. You help every one else but when your armor is down or your dead good luck at finding any one else to rep or pick you up.
We have had the rep tool nerfed before. It used to only give 5 ticks or so before it stopped giving out WP for almost a full minute or two. We no longer get WP from repping vehicles or turrets despite there being rep tools that are exclusively good at repairing vehicles. Any real nerf to rep tools will just mean people stop using them. Their not that effective in combat unless you have the best rep tool on some one with a decent recovery rate in their suit already. Plus it's kind of slow to switch from a weapon to tool and back. If an enemy starts firing at you, your basically helpless and caught with your pants down. So if they stopped giving WP imo people would mostly go to another piece of equipment.
Last thing you want is rep tools to turn out like nano hives. They used to be every where but now they only give 10 wp, expire really fast from restocking grenades and have a huge delay built in between the supply bonus your lucky get 20-50wp total out of a hive before it's gone. Even with 6 hives that's nothing for the cost in SP and isk to use them. Which is why almost no one carries them any more. In a squad your lucky if a person other than a logi has any hives, if they do it's usually the compact one which doesn't last long. |
Larkson Crazy Eye
WarRavens
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
95
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Posted - 2015.07.18 01:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
Sergeant Sazu wrote:Bradric Banewolf wrote:You guys give "reppers" the credit "logies" deserve smh?! Nope. The guys who remain locked-on to allies endlessly even when their HP is full are what we call "tourist logis". They're the guys who do it for the broken amount of WP that triage gives, not because they actually want to be a support unit.
To be fair it's a valid tactic in a tight defensive location when you know dmg will be incoming. You don't want to run around the map attached to some guys back but it has it's uses. You can hide out of the line of fire while giving that heavy/assault an extra second or two of life. 60-100ish HP per sec will make a huge difference. But it has to be done before the person is hurt. If you wait till they are already getting shot then it's to late. Their dead before you switched to your rep tool and locked on to them. Never mind how hard it is to lock on to target in a crowded area with people always stepping in the way. It's easier to stay locked on to your squad mate most of the time.
As a purely out of combat tool the rep tool is kind of lame. Most people barely have enough armor to give you one tick of the WP, nor do they even need it. If you have less than 400 armor you'll repair on your own in under 30 seconds most of the time. Which means if the logi is not already there, your good on your own by the time they move over to you. Which again if you remove pro active healing from logi's you might as well not have a rep tool and just go with other equipment. You can go the whole match without some one being noticeably hurt.
In many fights you can just carry a needle and forget the rep tool if your honest. A lot of suits like scouts have nothing between alive and dead so the rep tool barely helps.
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Larkson Crazy Eye
WarRavens
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
97
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Posted - 2015.07.18 02:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
MrShooter01 wrote:Only 7,050 isk,
That's less than the price of an advanced gun!
So, people. Please. Next time you complete a daily mission for an isk reward, buy a few dozen Wiyrkomi injectors, and replace the sharpened bit of PVC pipe you call a militia needle with them.
For me it's usually not the isk, though it does had up. It's better now that they lowered the cost. Equipment used to have nearly the same cost as weapons. The big problem is the huge jump in CPU/PG cost of the proto gear. A basic rep tool and inj is about the lowest cost gear you can put on at 15 cpu and 2 PG. A proto however at something like 48 and 8 well gets dicey on some cheaper apex like fits even with the logi bonus to equipment cost.
It's not as bad as proto nano hives but it's a factor more often than not. Most my mid range priced suits I run one piece of proto equipment with the rest advanced (or less if the CPU/PG becomes an issue). In the case of one item at proto level usually the rep tool wins out. A proto rep tool has more range and can work on two targets in addition to healing for more HP per second. An amazing tactical jump from the basic or even advanced model.
The difference in time wasted and how many people die with being able to heal two people at once vs just one is huge. Never mind the extra distance to prevent losing your lock all the time. On the other hand I can often go entire matches without using my needle once. Some times in a curb stomp it's because no one really dies. Other times it's because they die from one shot deaths and explosions. Or just die in really lousy places that will only get us both killed if any one tries to pick them up.
The thing about needles is their only really good if your team mates are running good equipment. It helps give them a safety net to want to risk those expensive suits. Tactically it's usually easier to just bleed out and spawn back in than get picked up in over all time wasted. Almost none of the matches I get into these days comes down to clones and generally the process of waiting for a person to call for help, picking them up and getting them on their way again w/o you both dying again is much longer than the 3-5 second spawns of most decent uplinks. |
Larkson Crazy Eye
WarRavens
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
98
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Posted - 2015.07.18 03:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
Bradric Banewolf wrote:
I dislike the idea that all the work that goes into winning a battle isn't rewarded better, but if you repping it's practically insta-pay?! I see such poor tactics from so many repping logis it's a bit frustrating. Then they get paid tons for basically helping you lose?!
Well Logi's are the Vultures of the battlefield. We only do well when our team does badly ;) The more you get hurt, die, spawn in and expend ammo the more points we earn. About the only non negative way a logi can earn Wp (other than normal killing/hacking etc) is scanners. And a mere 15 wp per squad kill while they are light up is kind of weak. Though with 16 man squads in PC I suppose that would happen more often than previously. Pub matches though scanners are worthless for WP.
Scanners are definitely one piece of equipment you should praise any logi for using, it's about the worst pay out in terms of points of any thing he could be using. |
Larkson Crazy Eye
WarRavens
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
99
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Posted - 2015.07.18 07:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
Reign Omega wrote:Veg Hegirin wrote:Bradric Banewolf wrote:I dislike the idea that all the work that goes into winning a battle isn't rewarded better, but if you repping it's practically insta-pay?! I see such poor tactics from so many repping logis it's a bit frustrating. Then they get paid tons for basically helping you lose?!
- Implying that a good assault is more important than a good logi
- Implying that a good assault does more work than a good logi
- Implying that a good assault has more impact on the outcome than a good logi
- implying that a good assault deserves better rewards than a good logi
- Implying that logi is not a force multiplier
- Implying that your K:D is more important than keeping your team effective
Do you see why people might be taking issue with that fact that you think n+1 > 2n ? Is sticking your rep tool up the arse of a good heavy ludicrously easy? Sure Does it always help your team? Not necessarily Can it help your team a great deal, and do you get more WP when it does? You bet your Paridae Is just this enough reason to change the WP gain of reps? No. Stop whining. The entire basis of your rebuttal is based on the fact that you assume he is talking about a good logi vs a rep hooker. Not. The. Same.
To be fair what I read of the original post, he was talking about a competent logi. The guy broke 6k WP. You can't do that just being an idiot with a rep tool. 2-3k sure, maybe 4k or so if your squad leader or got the defend order on you. But imo 6k takes some serious effort, naho hives, uplinks maybe a few revives and kill assist. Especially since it was a Skirm match I believe. Which would mean less enemies are funneling into a single point for the logi to rep a heavy or two on.
Though WP isn't everything. If your doing your job some times and sticking with the squad and defending an objective that doesn't really see any action your not going to get any WP. |
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