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Larkson Crazy Eye
WarRavens
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
72
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Posted - 2015.07.15 14:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
It's funny how many people think AV is OP despite the fact 3-4 guys can be trying to kill a tank and just die in droves. It's no joke that most proto tanks can kill 30+ people and never die, even withstand a major laser strike. The biggest joke is swarms for all that people seem to think their still OP after the latest nerf in their lock on range I have to wonder do these people ever try the other side of the coin?
They keep say jump in a tank and see how bad it is, but when was the last time they chased down a tank that can cut you down in half a second with AV weapons that require you to hit it 3-5 times minimum? Even a militia tank with full proto swarms, proficiency 5 and at least 4% dmg on the war barge takes 3 missiles most of the time. A hardened shield variant is even worse due to the dmg penalty vs explosives. You won't even see their shield bar move when you hit them. Keep in mind with swarms it has zero use against any infantry running around with a huge visual effect every time you fire that screams "Kill me".
Over all I don't mind tanks being hard to kill, forcing half the team to chase them down is a valid role in wasting the enemies time. I do think however tanks anti infantry capability should be toned down drastically. Imo the large turret should be nearly useless against infantry while the small turrets should be extremely effective within 100-150min range max. That not only solves the problem of being to easy to kill and a waste of ISK but their ability to be one man killing machines. I can accept a tank slaughtering it's way threw the map if 3 players are required to operate it. But 1 man tanks going 40-0 is insane.
As it is now not only can tanks work fine without gunners, it's usually a waste of time to have them. The small turrets are largely ineffective and having 3 players ride in one tank is a large waste of man power on a 16 man team. But one major thing to consider when you think about vehicles... if they get nerfed to bad no one will ever get the vehicle kill assist mission done ever again ;) |
Larkson Crazy Eye
WarRavens
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
74
|
Posted - 2015.07.15 16:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
I've always felt the tanks real job should be something that the LAV was supposed to do. Armored troop transport, getting a couple guys to the point under fire and back out again. The weapons on a HAV should be for clearing a path to the objective and general suppressive fire, not a one man army. People claim if a couple guys all run full proto AV tanks are nothing. Yet those proto AV suits cost how much, and what exactly is their life expectancy on the battle field lol?
I think if they buffed LAV's to at least be able to take a few hits and not be complete death traps that would free up tanks a little more. Perhaps slow them down, decrease their accuracy. Let a tank be a tank, a brick to soak up dmg and provide cover for advancing infantry. However that same brick should not be able to fly across the map and kill any one it see's. In fact pretty much the best most determined AV in the world won't kill a tank if it doesn't bother to stay still too long.
Which kind of makes HAV"s as they are more like mechanized scouts than heavies. Again doing more what the LAV in my mind should be doing than being a true brick like a heavy. |
Larkson Crazy Eye
WarRavens
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
76
|
Posted - 2015.07.15 19:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
As it stands now a good proto tank and driver is pretty close to instant win in any match. Not that they can't be killed but the effort required to do so is so high that in a 16 on 16 game you end up losing the objectives in the process. If you ignore the tank it racks up kills and pushes people to use cheaper fits. Unless the driver is a complete moron a proto tank usually makes things insanely difficult for the enemy team depending on the map and how close they can get to the objectives. Never mind what happens when a couple proto tanks actually use team tactics and defend each other.
But I guess most pro tankers think a mil or two isk should ensure their team wins by default. Not sure why no one things a proto drop suit should get that same consideration, even if it's officer weapons and suit.... |
Larkson Crazy Eye
WarRavens
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
76
|
Posted - 2015.07.15 19:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
Stupid Blueberry wrote:x4 damage modded Alldin's to the sweet spot usually does the trick.
I would say forge guns seem to be the best AV weapon out there. Their accurate, no travel time on the projectile with good range. No real tell tale effect pointing on the location the shot came from. Plus unlike swarm launchers, Av grenades etc it has some ability to kill infantry. Only down side is they take quite a bit of skill into both heavy suits heavy weapons to use effectively, though apex helps a bit there. Of course you are a heavy and after you take out the vehicles on the map it's a long walk back to a supply depot to switch out unless you risk your own vehicle to get there lol. |
Larkson Crazy Eye
WarRavens
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
78
|
Posted - 2015.07.15 19:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
Stormblade Green wrote:Larkson Crazy Eye wrote:Stupid Blueberry wrote:x4 damage modded Alldin's to the sweet spot usually does the trick. I would say forge guns seem to be the best AV weapon out there. Their accurate, no travel time on the projectile with good range. No real tell tale effect pointing on the location the shot came from. Plus unlike swarm launchers, Av grenades etc it has some ability to kill infantry. Only down side is they take quite a bit of skill into both heavy suits heavy weapons to use effectively, though apex helps a bit there. Of course you are a heavy and after you take out the vehicles on the map it's a long walk back to a supply depot to switch out unless you risk your own vehicle to get there lol. Forge sniping...... learn to frontline with a fg and the long way back is no issue.
Never really had anything more than the militia FG. It used to be great fun to go close quarters with the FG and blow people up at point blank. But with all the speed and jumps people have now.. the FG isn't what it used to be against infantry. It is one of the best Anti sniper weapons out there though. Most heavy's can take a Thale to the head and survive while the range and accuracy of the FG let you one shot the snipers, even those stacked assault snipers who sacrifice dmg mods for more shields that normally take several shots to kill if you try to counter snipe. |
Larkson Crazy Eye
WarRavens
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
78
|
Posted - 2015.07.15 19:55:00 -
[6] - Quote
SgtNONECK WASSSUP wrote:nicholas73 wrote:Options:
1. Make repairers active with a cool down time
2. Limit armour hardeners to 1 per tank.
3. Reduce hardener efficiency to 25% again
Also, I think armour hardener needs to have a higher CPU/PG cost, they're awfully low for the benefit they provide and differ hugely from their shield counterparts.  Active repairers should be active. 1 hardner per tank is idiotic do this tanks are useless there is no argument. Tanks should be hard to kill if u have 25mill sp into them simple truth 1 forge or swarm should not shutdown all vehicles.
Armor reppers used to be active btw back in the old days. It rather sucked for armor tanks to be honest. Not that they were not hard to kill, but it gave them far to many modules to have to constantly keep active to stay alive. Making driving and shooting hard to do since I believe in those days the armor reps only lasted like 15 seconds.
Back in those days shield tanks were king because of the fact shields were always regenerating on their own and I don't believe many of the current AV weapons really existed yet if my memory serves me. Not to mention armor tanks were super slow back then and all the PG mods had to be put on low slots, the same ones the armor related stuff went on. |
Larkson Crazy Eye
WarRavens
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
81
|
Posted - 2015.07.15 21:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
General Mosquito wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:General Mosquito wrote:
Either the grenades and a plc shot can or cannot kill the tank described. From there we can further the discussion, but not until you start to acknowledge some facts.
The fact is that an HAV need only roll away when hit by the 1st grenade to be out-of-range for the 2nd or 3rd. If you're suggesting in a 'round about way that AV Grenade toss range and homing capabilities should be buffed, then just come out and say it. Stop avoiding the question. That you refuse to answer a simple question belies your intent. Are you really trying to become a CPM and you can't even handle a simple question without resorting hypotheticals? Do three lai dais and a PLC round destroy an dual rep Madrugar with its hardeners up?
I think the better question is can you throw three grenades and fire a plasma cannon shot without the tank or any one else killing you first. AV at best is a glass cannon, a cannon that is only effective on one or two types of targets. Even amongst AV you got ones better at tanks, LAV's and Drop ships while weak or ineffective against the other types. |
Larkson Crazy Eye
WarRavens
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
81
|
Posted - 2015.07.15 21:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
Nothing Certain wrote:[
No, killing a hardened Madrugar is never easy and the "It is a tank" line of logic fails because that tank is just one player, one player should never be able to replace 2 or 3 players merely by virtue of their fit. Tanks are anti-infantry and infantry AV is anti-tank, it makes no sense that tanks should be able to kill infantry but not the other way around.
Which is why I always felt they should nerf Large turrets vs infantry, lower the range, accuracy, RoF what ever it takes to make their ability to kill infantry worse. Hurt, yes they should make infantry dive for cover and if your dumb enough to stand around long enough they could kill you. But a turret shouldn't be able to clear a field of all infantry in single clip. To compensate for this small turret's effectiveness should go up. Force tanks to have a crew. Then and only then would it be fair to force 3-4 people to go AV to kill a tank. After all 3 people are manning the tank, 3 people to kill it would be fair. |
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