DUST Search - Why I think ROF mods are unnecessary.

Karam Arami wrote:

Alena Ventrallis wrote:

Vesta Opalus wrote:

Alena Ventrallis wrote:

1. They aren't really useful on the tactical rifles. Unless we include modded controllers. If we do, you will have no idea how bad things will get.

2. ROF mods will increase DPS by the same amount as raw damage mods. It's redundant to introduce them.

3. I would like everyone to imagine a Thales with damage and ROF mods. Stacking both will make some weapons absolutely broken (looking at you mass drivers, bolt pistol, sniper rifles, hmg)

Instead, we should introduce a mod that affects damage application instead of DPS. Like a recoil/dispersion mod. Optimal range mod. Something that doesn't make you kill faster, but makes it easier to kill.

1. true, but the tactical rifles dont exactly need any help.

2. Sort of. ROF mods however change the nature of each weapon a little bit by increasing fire rate, plus if they are in low slots that gives caldari/minmatar a way to affect their damage without directly affecting their ability to stack shield hp.

3. Stacking both might make some weapons "broken" but since it comes at a cost of making your suit die from a stiff breeze Im not sure thats really a problem.

I dont really care about ROF mods one way or another, but these arguments suck. Oops

1. Which is why I mention modded controllers.

2. Mathematically it provides the same increase in DPS. What does not change is dpm (damage per magazine)

3. The redline will provide ample protection for snipers stacking these mods. For the mass driver, I see a minassault with jump mods and ROF mods hopping around with a mass driver blowing away everything. Or perhaps a light frame with bolt pistols blapping everything with a quickness. Low health does not necessarily equate to easy kill. Shotgun scouts are a testament to that.

it wont change the bolt pistol rof be cause it is a single shot, charge weapon

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Alena Ventrallis Commando Perkone Caldari State 3	Posted - 2015.07.11 18:30:00 - [1] - Quote 1. They aren't really useful on the tactical rifles. Unless we include modded controllers. If we do, you will have no idea how bad things will get. 2. ROF mods will increase DPS by the same amount as raw damage mods. It's redundant to introduce them. 3. I would like everyone to imagine a Thales with damage and ROF mods. Stacking both will make some weapons absolutely broken (looking at you mass drivers, bolt pistol, sniper rifles, hmg) Instead, we should introduce a mod that affects damage application instead of DPS. Like a recoil/dispersion mod. Optimal range mod. Something that doesn't make you kill faster, but makes it easier to kill. Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 17	Posted - 2015.07.11 18:31:00 - [2] - Quote AND THEN STEVE BUSCEMI SHOWS UP ON A FLYING PIG FOR ABSOLUTELY NO REASON AND THEN STEVE BUSCEMI SHOWS UP ON A FLYING PIG FOR ABSOLUTELY NO REASON
Robert Conway Concordiat Mercenaries 444	Posted - 2015.07.11 18:41:00 - [3] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: AND THEN STEVE BUSCEMI SHOWS UP ON A FLYING PIG FOR ABSOLUTELY NO REASON Spy Kids 2: The Island of Lost Dreams. I see what you did there. That was one of the best metaphores I've ever seen in my life. Edit: I am truly surprised I remember that from my childhood. Haha. Yassavi Approved. -Aero Yassavi
Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 874	Posted - 2015.07.11 18:49:00 - [4] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: 1. They aren't really useful on the tactical rifles. Unless we include modded controllers. If we do, you will have no idea how bad things will get. 2. ROF mods will increase DPS by the same amount as raw damage mods. It's redundant to introduce them. 3. I would like everyone to imagine a Thales with damage and ROF mods. Stacking both will make some weapons absolutely broken (looking at you mass drivers, bolt pistol, sniper rifles, hmg) Instead, we should introduce a mod that affects damage application instead of DPS. Like a recoil/dispersion mod. Optimal range mod. Something that doesn't make you kill faster, but makes it easier to kill. 1. true, but the tactical rifles dont exactly need any help. 2. Sort of. ROF mods however change the nature of each weapon a little bit by increasing fire rate, plus if they are in low slots that gives caldari/minmatar a way to affect their damage without directly affecting their ability to stack shield hp. 3. Stacking both might make some weapons "broken" but since it comes at a cost of making your suit die from a stiff breeze Im not sure thats really a problem. I dont really care about ROF mods one way or another, but these arguments suck.
Alena Ventrallis Commando Perkone Caldari State 3	Posted - 2015.07.11 18:55:00 - [5] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: 1. They aren't really useful on the tactical rifles. Unless we include modded controllers. If we do, you will have no idea how bad things will get. 2. ROF mods will increase DPS by the same amount as raw damage mods. It's redundant to introduce them. 3. I would like everyone to imagine a Thales with damage and ROF mods. Stacking both will make some weapons absolutely broken (looking at you mass drivers, bolt pistol, sniper rifles, hmg) Instead, we should introduce a mod that affects damage application instead of DPS. Like a recoil/dispersion mod. Optimal range mod. Something that doesn't make you kill faster, but makes it easier to kill. 1. true, but the tactical rifles dont exactly need any help. 2. Sort of. ROF mods however change the nature of each weapon a little bit by increasing fire rate, plus if they are in low slots that gives caldari/minmatar a way to affect their damage without directly affecting their ability to stack shield hp. 3. Stacking both might make some weapons "broken" but since it comes at a cost of making your suit die from a stiff breeze Im not sure thats really a problem. I dont really care about ROF mods one way or another, but these arguments suck. 1. Which is why I mention modded controllers. 2. Mathematically it provides the same increase in DPS. What does not change is dpm (damage per magazine) 3. The redline will provide ample protection for snipers stacking these mods. For the mass driver, I see a minassault with jump mods and ROF mods hopping around with a mass driver blowing away everything. Or perhaps a light frame with bolt pistols blapping everything with a quickness. Low health does not necessarily equate to easy kill. Shotgun scouts are a testament to that. Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
Loyal Glasses G.L.O.R.Y 83	Posted - 2015.07.11 18:57:00 - [6] - Quote Any Minmatar weapon would be even more BS than it already is. A bit off topic but it feels like BrAR has a bit too much range or is it just me? Glasses of the Loyal Variety > "The dead are notoriously unproductive "
VikingKong iBUN 0uter.Heaven 494	Posted - 2015.07.11 19:13:00 - [7] - Quote I have to agree. Although I kind of like the idea, I think RoF mods would cause more balance issues than they would fix. I would like a Gallente SMG. TUNNEL SNAKES RULE
Karam Arami The Knights Of NewEden 21	Posted - 2015.07.11 19:55:00 - [8] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: 1. They aren't really useful on the tactical rifles. Unless we include modded controllers. If we do, you will have no idea how bad things will get. 2. ROF mods will increase DPS by the same amount as raw damage mods. It's redundant to introduce them. 3. I would like everyone to imagine a Thales with damage and ROF mods. Stacking both will make some weapons absolutely broken (looking at you mass drivers, bolt pistol, sniper rifles, hmg) Instead, we should introduce a mod that affects damage application instead of DPS. Like a recoil/dispersion mod. Optimal range mod. Something that doesn't make you kill faster, but makes it easier to kill. 1. true, but the tactical rifles dont exactly need any help. 2. Sort of. ROF mods however change the nature of each weapon a little bit by increasing fire rate, plus if they are in low slots that gives caldari/minmatar a way to affect their damage without directly affecting their ability to stack shield hp. 3. Stacking both might make some weapons "broken" but since it comes at a cost of making your suit die from a stiff breeze Im not sure thats really a problem. I dont really care about ROF mods one way or another, but these arguments suck. 1. Which is why I mention modded controllers. 2. Mathematically it provides the same increase in DPS. What does not change is dpm (damage per magazine) 3. The redline will provide ample protection for snipers stacking these mods. For the mass driver, I see a minassault with jump mods and ROF mods hopping around with a mass driver blowing away everything. Or perhaps a light frame with bolt pistols blapping everything with a quickness. Low health does not necessarily equate to easy kill. Shotgun scouts are a testament to that. it wont change the bolt pistol rof be cause it is a single shot, charge weapon (T-T)¬('~')/ CHECKMATE!!!
Alena Ventrallis Commando Perkone Caldari State 3	Posted - 2015.07.11 20:25:00 - [9] - Quote Karam Arami wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: 1. They aren't really useful on the tactical rifles. Unless we include modded controllers. If we do, you will have no idea how bad things will get. 2. ROF mods will increase DPS by the same amount as raw damage mods. It's redundant to introduce them. 3. I would like everyone to imagine a Thales with damage and ROF mods. Stacking both will make some weapons absolutely broken (looking at you mass drivers, bolt pistol, sniper rifles, hmg) Instead, we should introduce a mod that affects damage application instead of DPS. Like a recoil/dispersion mod. Optimal range mod. Something that doesn't make you kill faster, but makes it easier to kill. 1. true, but the tactical rifles dont exactly need any help. 2. Sort of. ROF mods however change the nature of each weapon a little bit by increasing fire rate, plus if they are in low slots that gives caldari/minmatar a way to affect their damage without directly affecting their ability to stack shield hp. 3. Stacking both might make some weapons "broken" but since it comes at a cost of making your suit die from a stiff breeze Im not sure thats really a problem. I dont really care about ROF mods one way or another, but these arguments suck. 1. Which is why I mention modded controllers. 2. Mathematically it provides the same increase in DPS. What does not change is dpm (damage per magazine) 3. The redline will provide ample protection for snipers stacking these mods. For the mass driver, I see a minassault with jump mods and ROF mods hopping around with a mass driver blowing away everything. Or perhaps a light frame with bolt pistols blapping everything with a quickness. Low health does not necessarily equate to easy kill. Shotgun scouts are a testament to that. it wont change the bolt pistol rof be cause it is a single shot, charge weapon It changes the time between the firing of one round and the next charge cycle. The charge time itself would be unaffected. Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
LOL KILLZ LulKlz 241	Posted - 2015.07.11 20:29:00 - [10] - Quote ROF MOD and AHMG CEO of LulKlz/ chat channel LulKlz, code 0000 <--- numbers

Arkena Wyrnspire Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 24	Posted - 2015.07.11 22:40:00 - [11] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: 2. ROF mods will increase DPS by the same amount as raw damage mods. It's redundant to introduce them. This isn't strictly true. For the sake of expedient arithmetic I'll say that we assume both a damage mod and a ROF mod have a 10% modifier and we have a 500 DPS base weapon. To calculate the DPS of the weapon with the damage mod, we simply multiply the 500 by 1.1, because the damage is a flat 10% increase. 500 * 1.1 = 550. To calculate the DPS of the weapon with the ROF mod, we instead divide by 0.9. 500/0.9 actually results in 555.5 DPS. A ROF mod would be roughly 10% more effective per unit % than a damage mod would. Of course, this would come with the tradeoff of increased ammo consumption. Pedantry aside, I agree. They really are quite similar and I'm not really sure what the point of introducing two mods for the same effective role is. Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu Gallente Guide
Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 874	Posted - 2015.07.11 22:46:00 - [12] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: 1. They aren't really useful on the tactical rifles. Unless we include modded controllers. If we do, you will have no idea how bad things will get. 2. ROF mods will increase DPS by the same amount as raw damage mods. It's redundant to introduce them. 3. I would like everyone to imagine a Thales with damage and ROF mods. Stacking both will make some weapons absolutely broken (looking at you mass drivers, bolt pistol, sniper rifles, hmg) Instead, we should introduce a mod that affects damage application instead of DPS. Like a recoil/dispersion mod. Optimal range mod. Something that doesn't make you kill faster, but makes it easier to kill. 1. true, but the tactical rifles dont exactly need any help. 2. Sort of. ROF mods however change the nature of each weapon a little bit by increasing fire rate, plus if they are in low slots that gives caldari/minmatar a way to affect their damage without directly affecting their ability to stack shield hp. 3. Stacking both might make some weapons "broken" but since it comes at a cost of making your suit die from a stiff breeze Im not sure thats really a problem. I dont really care about ROF mods one way or another, but these arguments suck. 1. Which is why I mention modded controllers. 2. Mathematically it provides the same increase in DPS. What does not change is dpm (damage per magazine) 3. The redline will provide ample protection for snipers stacking these mods. For the mass driver, I see a minassault with jump mods and ROF mods hopping around with a mass driver blowing away everything. Or perhaps a light frame with bolt pistols blapping everything with a quickness. Low health does not necessarily equate to easy kill. Shotgun scouts are a testament to that. 1. If we're going to balance off modded controllers then the tac rifles need a dramatic rework in the first place 2. Mathematically you are wrong 3. Im still going to wreck sniper's ****, and if they dont tank it will be even easier since even dud headshots caused by this game's crappy hit detection wont save them from me. Jump modded ROF modded minassaults will pretty much kill themselves with fall damage, and in any case they arent much of a problem since jumping makes your path very easy to predict for the next 2-3 seconds and makes them pretty simple to murder except for the initial surprise jump the first time you run into them. Shotgun scouts ARE easy to kill though, because the scan immunity that makes them effective requires them to both use a low HP dropsuit and dump hp in favor of dampening modules. I dont think your arguments hold water here, but again I dont care about ROF mods and I'd rather have CCP working on something meaningful, like fixing the horrible framerate issues in game (a much better argument for not including ROF mods, imo)
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.07.11 23:29:00 - [13] - Quote I'm mostly against them because I don't think they're being introduced with any founded reason. I'm also against them because they will inevitably decrease TTK. Just saying? Mass Driver + Damage Mods/RoF Mods. I don't see the point in adding them. If they were being added to address a problem, I might change my mind, but adding them in for the sake of having a 'damage mod on the other side of the slot layout' is silly and going to cause problems. 10% of US schools no longer teach Cursive. A decade from now, 10% of the US isn't going to understand all the squiglies.
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 8	Posted - 2015.07.11 23:48:00 - [14] - Quote RoF mods would be double edged swords. They increase both the risks and the rewards. Say you have good aim, then you can end your target quickly. If you're like me, however, and have horrible gun game, then you'll miss most of your shots and miss out on the potential bonus. That said, I'm neutral. *Scouts United* Gk.0s & Quafes all day.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.07.12 00:40:00 - [15] - Quote Singleshot rifles in dust: Scrambler rifle and TAC AR, both are weapons utilised by ARMOR tanked suits which have DAMAGE MODS in their highslots. So they wont need ROF mods to begin with. Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 730	Posted - 2015.07.12 02:25:00 - [16] - Quote I'm not against them per se, but I think they are in the wrong slots, damage mods are one of the only useful high slot mods for armour tankers ROF in high lowers DPS on scrambler due to a quicker overheat (less cool down time before shots) and didn't we lower scr rof to stop modded controllers? Laser rifle I'm not sure how the rof mod will play out, but I do know you need the damage mods and that will cut into your primary tank. If rof doesn't work what are you going to put in your highs, shield extenders? Blasphemy Plasma cannon, can't use rof mods (unless Kubo) Calmando can now only fit 1 damage mod For balance, the shotgun would benefit but I don't think many people currently run them with damage mods. AR might work out to be evens based on the values they go with ADS Ramming Revenge! Plasma Cannon Rampage
Ydubbs81 RND Negative-Feedback 3	Posted - 2015.07.12 03:42:00 - [17] - Quote ROF mods in the low slots are necessary for shield tankers to compete with double and triple damage modded scr rifle users Shield tanking is hard mode /period. > Check RND out here
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 2	Posted - 2015.07.12 03:51:00 - [18] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: 1. They aren't really useful on the tactical rifles. Unless we include modded controllers. If we do, you will have no idea how bad things will get. 2. ROF mods will increase DPS by the same amount as raw damage mods. It's redundant to introduce them. 3. I would like everyone to imagine a Thales with damage and ROF mods. Stacking both will make some weapons absolutely broken (looking at you mass drivers, bolt pistol, sniper rifles, hmg) Instead, we should introduce a mod that affects damage application instead of DPS. Like a recoil/dispersion mod. Optimal range mod. Something that doesn't make you kill faster, but makes it easier to kill. +1. I agree to this post. KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 2	Posted - 2015.07.12 03:56:00 - [19] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: This isn't strictly true. For the sake of expedient arithmetic I'll say that we assume both a damage mod and a ROF mod have a 10% modifier and we have a 500 DPS base weapon. To calculate the DPS of the weapon with the damage mod, we simply multiply the 500 by 1.1, because the damage is a flat 10% increase. 500 * 1.1 = 550. To calculate the DPS of the weapon with the ROF mod, we instead divide by 0.9. 500/0.9 actually results in 555.5 DPS. A ROF mod would be roughly 10% more effective per unit % than a damage mod would. Of course, this would come with the tradeoff of increased ammo consumption. Pedantry aside, I agree. They really are quite similar and I'm not really sure what the point of introducing two mods for the same effective role is. And for arguments sake, we are comparing module that increase your dps by x and module that increases your dps by the same x. It is just the values that would be set in the future, if rof mods come reality. No one said anything "both are 10% values". But yea this too is pedantry. KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading.
Alena Ventrallis Commando Perkone Caldari State 3	Posted - 2015.07.12 04:36:00 - [20] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: 2. ROF mods will increase DPS by the same amount as raw damage mods. It's redundant to introduce them. This isn't strictly true. For the sake of expedient arithmetic I'll say that we assume both a damage mod and a ROF mod have a 10% modifier and we have a 500 DPS base weapon. To calculate the DPS of the weapon with the damage mod, we simply multiply the 500 by 1.1, because the damage is a flat 10% increase. 500 * 1.1 = 550. To calculate the DPS of the weapon with the ROF mod, we instead divide by 0.9. 500/0.9 actually results in 555.5 DPS. A ROF mod would be roughly 10% more effective per unit % than a damage mod would. Of course, this would come with the tradeoff of increased ammo consumption. Pedantry aside, I agree. They really are quite similar and I'm not really sure what the point of introducing two mods for the same effective role is. Your math is flawed. Take the Duvolle AR. 34 damage, 800 rounds per minute (RPM)To get DPS, we multiply 34 by 800 to get a total of 27200 damage per minute (DPM). Divide that by 60 seconds in a minute to get 453.33 damage per second (DPS) round. In other words, the formula to calculate DPS is: (Damage x ROF) / 60 = DPS So plugging in our unmodified Duvolle gets us the following: (34 x 800) / 60 = ~453.33 Now, let's look at a 10% raw damage mod. To find our new damage value, we multiply the old value (34) by 1.1 to get the new value (37.4) Let's plug this into our DPS formula. (37.4 x 800) / 60 = ~498.67 DPS. Let's do the same with a 10% ROF mod. We multiply 800 by 1.1 (same as we did raw damage) to get 880. Therefore: (34 x 880) / 60 = ~498.67 DPS. We can therefore conclude that ROF mods increase DPS by the same proportion as raw damage mods ie: 5% raw damage provides the same DPS increase as 5% ROF. No Vesta, my math is not wrong. Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.

Super Sniper95 Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 829	Posted - 2015.07.12 04:43:00 - [21] - Quote Where does it say they introducing RoF Mods? Linky? Retired? Or Not?
Alena Ventrallis Commando Perkone Caldari State 3	Posted - 2015.07.12 04:48:00 - [22] - Quote Super Sniper95 wrote: Where does it say they introducing RoF Mods? Linky? https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2844930#post2844930 Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
CRAZYHORSE ONE EIGHT CowTek 85	Posted - 2015.07.12 04:58:00 - [23] - Quote 1. Where is this idea for rof mods coming from? 2. Who the hell thought it would be a good idea? 3. Zomg ARR with rof mod. 4. Worst idea ever.
jane stalin free dropships for newbs 360	Posted - 2015.07.12 05:21:00 - [24] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: [quote=Alena Ventrallis] 2. ROF mods will increase DPS by the same amount as raw damage mods. It's redundant to introduce them. If the reds were considerate enough to stand still they would be redundant but I would argue rate of fire increase on a shotgun would actually be better than a damage mod in many situations and something that decreased the charge time of a plasma or forge would be better in many situations. I am sure tryhards will really try and use them to break the game but that is what hot fixes are for.
DarK KNigHT007 Corrosive Synergy No Context 155	Posted - 2015.07.12 08:13:00 - [25] - Quote VikingKong iBUN wrote: I have to agree. Although I kind of like the idea, I think RoF mods would cause more balance issues than they would fix. Yup and thats why i hate the idea The MosT ImportanT ThinG U NeeD IS LUCK


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