DUST Search - Scrambler Rifle Number ****

BARAGAMOS wrote:

deezy dabest wrote:

Breakin Stuff wrote:

Georgia Xavier wrote:

Tesfa Alem wrote:

bump for blue tag

also to keep in mind though it is physically possible to rapid fire a controller without middling the controller, to do that much in that that amount of time is unpractical and far from accurate.

I can spam a good deal from a scr clip, certainly not 19 times accurately.

Same here, got a fast trigger finger but none of them will hit unless I'm so close to the target I might as well hug them

Statements like yours are the reason I am skeptical of the claims who can max out the shots with just a finger and accurately.

I can't, and I don't know anyone who isn't a braggart who claims they can.

This is why I am skeptical that bringing the ScR to heel will "punish normal players who don't use modded controllers."

Just look at the Scrambler pistol. It got its RoF nerfed and now shooting it is painful. It is impossible to hold your rhythm with the thing thanks to what seems to be some sort or random interval application to make the RoF what it is.This is the same situation which would hurt regular users. Modded controllers can be programmed to the exact rate of fire while anything below what a regular person is able to pull the trigger at turns into an awkward mess of not knowing if you are going to shoot or not.

I think the real problem is that there are like three people in the world actually not using a moded controller with this and the combat rifle. Watch the kill feed and count the Scram kills. Better than 50% most games. The dps is off the chart and warping the game even more in favor of armor vs shields. Its time to fix this so we can go back to some diversity on the field. that and to be honest, I am personally tired of getting a suit with 750 EHP melted off in less than 1.5 seconds from insane range.


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Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 312	Posted - 2015.07.10 21:00:00 - [1] - Quote Ok, the methodology used was simple: I used a hardware interface (that is designed to allow the use of an Xbox 360 Controller with a PS3 or a PS3 controller with an Xbox 360) to run a few custom "Turbo-fire" Scripts that I calibrated to the correct RoFs over the course of a few days. The Scripts where calibrated by measuring the minimum actuation time that needed to be given for DUST to register the "keystrokes", then time was added from there, I tested the scripts using the PS3 controller on both a Windows PC and a Linux Machine to ensure that the RoFs it was outputting where correct. Then a corpmate of mine and I jumped into pub matches in squad, and recorded from both his perspective and my perspective the trials using the 'Templar' Scrambler Rifle on this Account. Each programmed Rate of Fire was used in 5 trials each. After each trial, before reloading the number of rounds remaining in the magazine was recorded. These trials where all done in the redline, and I apologize to my teammates in those matches for taking you down 2 people (although we did end up with victories in all test matches). Trials with the 'Templar' Scrambler Rifle took 2 matches to complete. We then repeated the same process, this time the character used was a fresh alt with no skills, using a Militia Scrambler Rifle. The same test method was used, and I issue the same apology. I then went in and analyzed the video to get the time to overheat, verifying from both the shooter's and viewers perspectives, and attempting (with minimal success) to ensure the correct number of rounds where fired. To get the time from the shooters perspective, the first frame of the measurment was the first frame where heat appeared in the interface, to the first frame where the weapon was inoperable. To get the time from the Viewers perspective, time was taken from the first frame in which a shot appeared, to the first frame where the "Blue Sphere" seize affect was seen. Any discrepancies where averaged out. Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 314	Posted - 2015.07.11 01:14:00 - [2] - Quote I just hoped to provide the proper context for everyone when talking about the Scrambler Rifle Re-balance. Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 317	Posted - 2015.07.11 03:37:00 - [3] - Quote Daddrobit wrote: So do I'm going to guess you do not have Amarr Assault which is why the unskilled militia could pump out just as much as the basic? I would assume then that you would be able to fire off 23-24 shots with the Assault bonus at 600 RPM? Also, like I pointed out in the other thread, this is why I'm wary of adding ROF mods with mechanics like these... Even if RoF mods where added it wouldn't increase the DPS potential of the SCR or TR, since the system does not register an input of 600 RPM, therefore it wouldn't register a higher input accurately either. I didn't test the Amarr Assault because I don't have a character with Amarr Assault V, and to try to get an accurate assessment of the base weapon, with as few bonuses as possible added in. Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 320	Posted - 2015.07.12 02:19:00 - [4] - Quote Daddrobit wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Daddrobit wrote: So do I'm going to guess you do not have Amarr Assault which is why the unskilled militia could pump out just as much as the basic? I would assume then that you would be able to fire off 23-24 shots with the Assault bonus at 600 RPM? Also, like I pointed out in the other thread, this is why I'm wary of adding ROF mods with mechanics like these... Even if RoF mods where added it wouldn't increase the DPS potential of the SCR or TR, since the system does not register an input of 600 RPM, therefore it wouldn't register a higher input accurately either. I didn't test the Amarr Assault because I don't have a character with Amarr Assault V, and to try to get an accurate assessment of the base weapon, with as few bonuses as possible added in. Hmmm, indeed, I didn't read into the "Measured ROF" column. Good call. Would like to see what would be possible on Amarr Assault though. I have one, but I lack a modded controller and I'm not spending cash on one to squeeze out an extra 2-3 shots... Well, I'd test it myself, but that's a lot of SP to save up, and I'm hoping that CCP fixes it before then (plus there are a number of other things I'd rather spend SP on), but assuming I have it before any issues with this weapon are changed, I'd be happy to test it as well. In the meantime, I'm trying to get SP to get into a TacAR to get a side-by side comparison to see how the two Tactical Weapons compare. Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 321	Posted - 2015.07.12 22:25:00 - [5] - Quote BARAGAMOS wrote: deezy dabest wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Georgia Xavier wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: bump for blue tag also to keep in mind though it is physically possible to rapid fire a controller without middling the controller, to do that much in that that amount of time is unpractical and far from accurate. I can spam a good deal from a scr clip, certainly not 19 times accurately. Same here, got a fast trigger finger but none of them will hit unless I'm so close to the target I might as well hug them Statements like yours are the reason I am skeptical of the claims who can max out the shots with just a finger and accurately. I can't, and I don't know anyone who isn't a braggart who claims they can. This is why I am skeptical that bringing the ScR to heel will "punish normal players who don't use modded controllers." Just look at the Scrambler pistol. It got its RoF nerfed and now shooting it is painful. It is impossible to hold your rhythm with the thing thanks to what seems to be some sort or random interval application to make the RoF what it is.This is the same situation which would hurt regular users. Modded controllers can be programmed to the exact rate of fire while anything below what a regular person is able to pull the trigger at turns into an awkward mess of not knowing if you are going to shoot or not. I think the real problem is that there are like three people in the world actually not using a moded controller with this and the combat rifle. Watch the kill feed and count the Scram kills. Better than 50% most games. The dps is off the chart and warping the game even more in favor of armor vs shields. Its time to fix this so we can go back to some diversity on the field. that and to be honest, I am personally tired of getting a suit with 750 EHP melted off in less than 1.5 seconds from insane range. Don't get us wrong, I'm sure we all want the Scrambler Rifle to be in-line with the other weapons, but it also needs to feel right. Currently, the weapon's firing mechanics feel right, it's the limiting factors on damage that need to be examined, which was one of the purposes with this data collection, to demonstrate that something was wrong with the heat buildup of the weapon (though the data is inconclusive on to how it generates heat, it is generating slightly more than it should). I'll get back to everyone when I get data for the TacAR for comparison. It would also be useful to know exactly what the multiplier on heat for the charge shot on the ScR is (If a Dev wants to weigh in here). Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 321	Posted - 2015.07.13 03:52:00 - [6] - Quote Just got the SP to run TacAR, I should be able to test it vs the SCR with the scripts tomorrow Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 322	Posted - 2015.07.14 01:54:00 - [7] - Quote Tactical AR can get up to 600 RPM, or at least it expends its ammo at this rate using the 600 RPM script, which I was not expecting during this test. It sounds and looks like it fires significantly slower though, but it does fire the entirety of the magazine in 2.4 seconds, making it the bigger danger in the hands of turbo controller users (note: it did this for all 5 trials with the 600 RPM script). Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 323	Posted - 2015.07.14 02:18:00 - [8] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Tactical AR can get up to 600 RPM, or at least it expends its ammo at this rate using the 600 RPM script, which I was not expecting during this test. It sounds and looks like it fires significantly slower though, but it does fire the entirety of the magazine in 2.4 seconds, making it the bigger danger in the hands of turbo controller users (note: it did this for all 5 trials with the 600 RPM script). And people didn't believe me when I said the Tac AR is pretty good. How was the recoil during the test Thaddeus? Recoil is pretty intense on the TacAR, but not entirely unmanageable, with skill (or a Script) one could, with difficulty, keep the reticle on-target...the dispersion is much more pronounced on the TacAR though. Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 323	Posted - 2015.07.14 22:20:00 - [9] - Quote Just went through the videos to verify number of shots fired on all Scrambler Rifle Trials. All counts are correct, my difficulty before was i Was trying to count the number of projectiles, which overlapped with each-other, instead now I'm counting the number of impacts on the surface material (than you Grimm for making us fire at a surface in-view). Please note: this data does not indicate how the Scrambler Rifle is generating its heat, nor how it is generating its excess heat, just that the heat buildup is not consistent with the statistics we where given (and unlike the 80GJ Railguns, it isn't something as neat as generating double heat). Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 323	Posted - 2015.07.15 04:25:00 - [10] - Quote I really hope this data is helpful to the devteam and community. If it is, I'd be glad to gather more data. And to answer some questions, no I will not reveal the hardware or the specifics of the scripts on the forums (unless I am specifically told to by the devs/gms). While I used a "turbo" function for this test (to achieve consistency of rate of fire and quick enough rate of fire), I do not condone the use of them during ordinary gameplay, and do not want to make it any easier on those who use them to gain an unfair advantage. Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal

Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 335	Posted - 2015.07.23 04:21:00 - [11] - Quote Bump Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 338	Posted - 2015.07.29 22:32:00 - [12] - Quote a bump also, I'm pretty sure (just based on the small change that happened a little while ago, that has since been rolled back) that the heat buildup is a per-shot, not per time, but the data suggests that the weapon is generating too much heat per shot, is generating heat for an extra shot(s) that is (are) registering. I want to apologize for some of my earlier posts (not necessarily in this thread) insisting that the weapon build up heat on a per time basis, as those where in-error. I also want to ask CCP if they've identified where this anomalous heat is coming from, and also what the wait time before cool-down starts? Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 343	Posted - 2015.07.30 03:34:00 - [13] - Quote Jakkal Shoobah wrote: Super interested on TAC ar vs scrambler comparison with those scripts. They both supposedly have a rof of 600, but when I would put a scr and a TAC on my commando, its clear which one I can shoot faster. As I explained in my earlier post, the SCR felt and looked faster in each test, however, the TAC AR, despite not making the correct number of sounds, did make the correct number of impacts on the surface fired upon, and fired the correct amount of ammunition in the exact required time each trial (Unlike the ScR) Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 348	Posted - 2015.08.01 04:38:00 - [14] - Quote Jakkal Shoobah wrote: Thank you Thaddeus for this information. I will no longer feel like my TAC AR is inferior to the scrambler. No Problem...if I see any sort of problem I can assist in gathering data for, I will. I would gather additional data from FW if I had a non-laggy FW Match for a control xD Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 349	Posted - 2015.08.01 06:55:00 - [15] - Quote I would love to have a weapons lab available...would be great for crowd-sourcing testing...not to mention getting people a chance to try out different weapon types Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 349	Posted - 2015.08.01 11:13:00 - [16] - Quote NIETZCHES OVERMAN wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: BOW BEFORE THADDEUS REYNOLDS! That SOB does his homework, and he does it good. Here's the derived average rates of fire on a programmable input. There is some oversampling, but as you can see, the numbers are fairly consistent. So I give you the scrambler rifle Rate of Fire Measurement Test results (Preliminary) if the input was programmable why is there over sampling ? and i do better with just my finger i can burn 21 shots easy without overheat... I made a lot of effort to minimize over sampling, however I found it was unavoidable on my end. This could be a factor of the device, the ps3 itself, or any number of other issues. I have a question, those 21 shots, are those on an Amarr Assault Suit? If not, I'd be happy to set up a time to record some footage to analyze. Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal