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Eruditus 920
Nemo Malus Felix
2
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Posted - 2015.07.09 23:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
and tell me what is on your mind. Matari or Gallente Sentinel?
Running out of SP sinks. Boredom on horizon.
Many Proto suits at ready. No Sentinel.
Slavers and Squids are wheels off.
Play solo. "Squad up" suck it.
Informed advice sought. Talkin' out arse discouraged.
"Stay gold, Ponyboy..."
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Thor Odinson42
Negative-Feedback
6
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Posted - 2015.07.09 23:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
Min and it's not even close |
Genral69 death
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
417
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Posted - 2015.07.09 23:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
Min:
There great at hit and run, they can take a bit of a beating but arnt great at point defence. There fast which gives them an advantage over overs and in alot of cases you can flank the enemy quiet effectively.
Overall a good suit for hit and run
7/10
Gal:
I'm quiet disappointed with suit . Like the ammar this suit is slow and can take a beating (if stacked). But overal the gal are best for there self repair rate but however the gal sentinel cannot say the same, and having to rely on a logi. But apart from this they have 2 high slots which are great for damage mods.
5/10
https://dust514.com/recruit/R6VwQe/
Sign up today to Help get you and me get free stuff
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Reign Omega
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
1
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Posted - 2015.07.09 23:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
Minsent is actually finally better than gal. More mobility, more options. Gal is good for toe to toe, but even then its not the best.
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
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Lightning35 Delta514
48TH SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCE
852
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Posted - 2015.07.09 23:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
Depends. Armor is preferred because of reps so get galsent. BUT, if you play solo, get min and put assault hmg on it and shield and armor tank it as much as possible.
CEO of 48th Special Operations Force
Twitter-@48SOF
Scout and Assault GK.0/Rattati and Scotsman GK.0
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Eruditus 920
Nemo Malus Felix
2
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Posted - 2015.07.09 23:45:00 -
[6] - Quote
Hmmm.
I was leaning towards Gal because more base HP, better native armor reps, and resistance to RR and CR which are very popular.
But I am hearing Matari. This genuinely surprises me.
Thanks for input so far.
Please continue. I would give all of you tamales if I could.
"Stay gold, Ponyboy..."
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Thor Odinson42
Negative-Feedback
6
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Posted - 2015.07.09 23:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
AHMG
Flaylock
Regulator
Kin Cat
2x Shield Ext
Shield Energizer
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Reign Omega
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
1
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Posted - 2015.07.09 23:54:00 -
[8] - Quote
I have galsent proto and have since it was released, it's been awhile since I lost a fight to another similarly skilled heavy, and only outtanked by Amarr. Now I'm outtanked by amarr, outflanked by min and outregen by cal. It's fine for me though just makes me play smarter. Definitely can't just slugfest in one heavy anymore like you used to.
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
12
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Posted - 2015.07.09 23:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
Minmatar sentinel
Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
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Eruditus 920
Nemo Malus Felix
2
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Posted - 2015.07.09 23:56:00 -
[10] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:AHMG
Flaylock
Regulator
Kin Cat
2x Shield Ext
Shield Energizer
Thought provoking.
Cardiac Regulator or Shield Reg? Cardiac to play to Matari native stamina advantage?
"Stay gold, Ponyboy..."
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Eruditus 920
Nemo Malus Felix
2
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Posted - 2015.07.10 00:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
Reign Omega wrote:I have galsent proto and have since it was released, it's been awhile since I lost a fight to another similarly skilled heavy, and only outtanked by Amarr. Now I'm outtanked by amarr, outflanked by min and outregen by cal. It's fine for me though just makes me play smarter. Definitely can't just slugfest in one heavy anymore like you used to.
So, if you respec'ed, would you go Min or Gal? There's a tamale in the mail with your address on it.
"Stay gold, Ponyboy..."
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Thor Odinson42
Negative-Feedback
6
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Posted - 2015.07.10 00:02:00 -
[12] - Quote
Eruditus 920 wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:AHMG
Flaylock
Regulator
Kin Cat
2x Shield Ext
Shield Energizer
Thought provoking. Cardiac Regulator or Shield Reg? Cardiac to play to Matari native stamina advantage?
Shield |
Joel II X
Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
8
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Posted - 2015.07.10 00:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
Reign Omega wrote:Minsent is actually finally better than gal. More mobility, more options. Gal is good for toe to toe, but even then its not the best.
It's been better since the slot change on the Gallente Sentinel in my opinion.
Scouts United
Gk.0s & Quafes all day.
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Reign Omega
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
1
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Posted - 2015.07.10 00:35:00 -
[14] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:Reign Omega wrote:Minsent is actually finally better than gal. More mobility, more options. Gal is good for toe to toe, but even then its not the best. It's been better since the slot change on the Gallente Sentinel in my opinion.
I guess for me, this is the first time I have really had to consider a minsent in a fight seriously. I used to just mow right through them and keep going lol
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
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CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
25
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Posted - 2015.07.10 01:32:00 -
[15] - Quote
Players actually wondering what is best? Real choices? This makes my black heart stir.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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Nocturnal Soul
Primordial Threat
7
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Posted - 2015.07.10 01:37:00 -
[16] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Players actually wondering what is best? Real choices? This makes my black heart stir.
It's still Amarr :D
"The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited."
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
11
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Posted - 2015.07.10 01:44:00 -
[17] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Players actually wondering what is best? Real choices? This makes my black heart stir. Don't get cocky, kid.
@Ripley_Riley CPM2 candidate. Ripley.Riley on Skype!
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
20
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Posted - 2015.07.10 01:55:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Players actually wondering what is best? Real choices? This makes my black heart stir. And now you steal away Balance them out today Nice work you did YouGÇÖre gonna go far, kid
FTFY
Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
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The Eristic
Art.of.Death
1
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Posted - 2015.07.10 01:56:00 -
[19] - Quote
Min and Cal are the only fun ones. If the Gal had more self-regenability (like, a little less armor, but more innate reps), it'd be more entertaining, imo.
Reality is the original Rorschach.
Verily! So much for all that.
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Eruditus 920
Nemo Malus Felix
2
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Posted - 2015.07.10 01:57:00 -
[20] - Quote
Great, a blue tag.
Now I'm sure my query will get lots of sincere feedback and no dik sucking.
I hope your behind is at least greasy.
"Stay gold, Ponyboy..."
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maybe deadcatz
the nomercs
315
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Posted - 2015.07.10 01:57:00 -
[21] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Players actually wondering what is best? Real choices? This makes my black heart stir. It's still Amarr :D
Too bad the amarr sent is slow and bulky and useless on its own.
Ewar? What's that? Some kind of new crutch? Learn how to use your eyes and ears you maggots. Batteskirts for the win!!
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Scheneighnay McBob
Penumbra or something
7
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Posted - 2015.07.10 02:06:00 -
[22] - Quote
I like my gal sent: but I set mine up for regen, rather than eHP, like a true gal suit.
Its armor regens as fast as, if not faster than its shields.
The anti-tunnel snake taskforce has assembled
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five times
Liverpool F.C.
161
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Posted - 2015.07.10 02:10:00 -
[23] - Quote
Theyre all good for certain situations, I use all 4, below is my HMG fits
I fit Amarr 4 plates and damage mod
I fit gal 3 reppers and 2 damage mods
I fit cal 1 repper and 4 damage mods
I fit min 1 repper, 1 kin cat 3 damage mods, or leave the kat for another repper
But I would say min is best if you only want 1 sent, because useful for forging aswell |
Eruditus 920
Nemo Malus Felix
2
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Posted - 2015.07.10 02:19:00 -
[24] - Quote
Yes, yes, my minions, you came for the blue tag but stayed for the intrigue.
Reverse the psychology. Slippery backsides indeed!
More input. More advice. MORE, I beseech you!
So you're saying there's a chance.. with Min?
I am truly torn bc I know nothing of Fat.
Please help.
"Stay gold, Ponyboy..."
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Reign Omega
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
1
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Posted - 2015.07.10 02:32:00 -
[25] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:I like my gal sent: but I set mine up for regen, rather than eHP, like a true gal suit.
Its armor regens as fast as, if not faster than its shields.
Even at 30 reps a second it still takes 25 or so seconds to rep lol
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
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Logi Bro
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2015.07.10 02:54:00 -
[26] - Quote
Minmatar is my personal favorite.
The speed is pretty great, resistance to scramblers rifles is great considering their popularity, armor resistance to shotguns is also great, everything is great.
Gallante is just a sad joke of a sentinel. Should excel at self reps, but is outclassed by the Amarr. A pure rep setup on an Amarr sent has more reps, more eHP, a resistance to a much more common weapon, and better stamina than a pure rep Gallente, while the Gal gets the mediocre advantage of one more damage mod.
SP Sinks? Fixed.
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Middas Betancore
600
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Posted - 2015.07.10 02:58:00 -
[27] - Quote
I'd choose min for a lot of reasons mentioned
Mobility, dual tank, balanced slot layout
But mostly, officer suit...it should be used more, I wuv it
Onnamon 4-State Protectorate Logistics Support
State Task Force: Caldari Fw Channel
CPM2 Candidate
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Thor Odinson42
Negative-Feedback
6
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Posted - 2015.07.10 03:06:00 -
[28] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:I like my gal sent: but I set mine up for regen, rather than eHP, like a true gal suit.
Its armor regens as fast as, if not faster than its shields.
That'll probably be my next suit. |
VAHZZ
Nos Nothi
4
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Posted - 2015.07.10 03:08:00 -
[29] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Players actually wondering what is best? Real choices? This makes my black heart stir. And now you steal away Balance them out today Nice work you did YouGÇÖre gonna go far, kid FTFY
That song literally just came on Spotify....
Until Lambs become Lions.
GJR Approved
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Regis Blackbird
DUST University
Ivy League
1
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Posted - 2015.07.10 04:18:00 -
[30] - Quote
To break up the monotony in this thread, I like the Cal sent for solo play. 
With 0.6 seconds shield depletion delay, and less than 10 seconds to fully recharge the shields, I don't need any logi support.
Edit: Ohh, forgot to mention this was my ADV setup used for pubs. My Proto setup is even more fun |
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WE LOVE ReGnUM
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
59
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Posted - 2015.07.10 04:26:00 -
[31] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Players actually wondering what is best? Real choices? This makes my black heart stir. Don't get cocky, kid.
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Kuruld Sengar
Halos n Horns
Immortals of War
330
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Posted - 2015.07.10 07:15:00 -
[32] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Players actually wondering what is best? Real choices? This makes my black heart stir.
I feel we are responsible for the blackening and would like to offer my condolences... |
Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
1
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Posted - 2015.07.10 09:17:00 -
[33] - Quote
Eruditus 920 wrote:and tell me what is on your mind. Matari or Gallente Sentinel?
Running out of SP sinks. Boredom on horizon.
Many Proto suits at ready. No Sentinel.
Slavers and Squids are wheels off.
Play solo. "Squad up" suck it.
Informed advice sought. Talkin' out arse discouraged.
min, but not for the reasons listed above.
hmgs are projectiles weapons.
simply put, the amarr has a 15 % natural resist to projectile weapons.
min and cal both are shield based, shield suits have a 15% resist to projectiles.
min also has a 15% resist to laser weapons. The only down side is that it has the least hp of the sentinels.
armor tank it's amarr over gallente. solo play cal sent because high shield regeneration.
versatility, speed, resists, has to be minmatar.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
"I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
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Viktor Hadah Jr
0uter.Heaven
8
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Posted - 2015.07.10 10:59:00 -
[34] - Quote
I got amarr and min sent. Min is fun and better in most situations. But there are some really good domination maps where i can drop easy 50 bombs in my 1200 armor stacked amarr heavy
But at the end of the day the amarr heavy is my favorite
Vote Viktor Hadah for CPM2 or i'll hurt you.
I'm kind of a big deal.
Get Dust ISK Here
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Marcus Stormfire
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
111
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Posted - 2015.07.10 11:05:00 -
[35] - Quote
Minmatar Sentinel. There is a lot of utility and options that you can choose in how you run the suit. I love mine, It is F**** evil  .
-Marcus
-I don't always kill Mercs with a sidearm, But when I do I use militia.
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Grease Spillett
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
882
|
Posted - 2015.07.10 11:08:00 -
[36] - Quote
Yeah me up your behinds. I calmando wut?
Next time you see me, bring more friends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBM5hM5LdDw
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Jammeh McJam
XxAMBUSH FTWxX
General Tso's Alliance
305
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Posted - 2015.07.10 12:42:00 -
[37] - Quote
Personally I think cal heavy is the best. It's not as fast as the min and not as tanky as the amarr, but it's in a nice place in between.
Generally if you get the drop in the reddots with a cal sent half of them will be dead before they know you're there providing you fit it right.
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
PC master race
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Balistyc Farshot
MONSTER SYNERGY
289
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Posted - 2015.07.10 13:53:00 -
[38] - Quote
maybe deadcatz wrote:Nocturnal Soul wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Players actually wondering what is best? Real choices? This makes my black heart stir. It's still Amarr :D Too bad the amarr sent is slow and bulky and useless on its own.
I main my amarr sent. The bulk just means you need to be smarter about where you setup.
The thing with the amarr sent is that you are a walking piece of metal so play like that. I step out into fire and hose down my enemies with head shots from the AHMG. (Old PC trick that still works for heavy on heavy battle.) Don't hide, be bold and scare the reds. Remember, especially the proto stompers fear heavies! (Not my precious suit!!)
So many (And I mean soooo many fights get to a stale mate where the defenders are dug in and the offenders need to push. Strap on the bulk and knock the door in. Just step back after the first 2 kills. Get a reload in and CD, everyone wants to rep the amarr, then advance in slow, and watch the greed. If I am solo I still do the LAV to the location then bullets for everyone!
Since you asked Matari or Gal I would say Gal. If you want speed go Cal. The Matari is just not ranged enough or fast enough for me to leverage as a heavy. At least with the Gal, you can use that fitting when there isn't a logi to rep you and you know you will be getting attacked in waves. The Gal internal rep rate can then be used to bring you back up and you load it down with dmg mods and armor. That is the advantage is dmg mods.
"Dying with your rep tool out - the logi-flasher!"
Who hasn't been caught by a cute little female scout doing this?
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501st Headstrong
0uter.Heaven
1
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Posted - 2015.07.10 15:18:00 -
[39] - Quote
Min for Flanking
Cal for no logi support
Amarr for frontal assault
Gal for hvy-hvy combat.
"There are no rights. The world owes no one a living."-Sumner
*The Mascot of 0uter.Heaven *
Internet down atm :(
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Radiant Pancake3
Destinys Immortals
Rise Of Legion.
332
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Posted - 2015.07.10 15:26:00 -
[40] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Players actually wondering what is best? Real choices? This makes my black heart stir. And now you steal away Balance them out today Nice work you did YouGÇÖre gonna go far, kid FTFY
You people brought this on yourselves. YU DID DIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Personal Manager of Destinys Immortals
Join Logi Heaven! Chat: "Triage Ward"
Gû¼Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉGòÉn¦ñ Minmatar Loyalist Gû¼Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉGòÉn¦ñ
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Vesta Opalus
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
870
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Posted - 2015.07.10 16:28:00 -
[41] - Quote
Eruditus 920 wrote:and tell me what is on your mind. Matari or Gallente Sentinel?
Running out of SP sinks. Boredom on horizon.
Many Proto suits at ready. No Sentinel.
Slavers and Squids are wheels off.
Play solo. "Squad up" suck it.
Informed advice sought. Talkin' out arse discouraged.
Minmatar is more fun, Gallente is just a gimpy Amarr. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Penumbra or something
7
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Posted - 2015.07.10 17:37:00 -
[42] - Quote
Reign Omega wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:I like my gal sent: but I set mine up for regen, rather than eHP, like a true gal suit.
Its armor regens as fast as, if not faster than its shields. Even at 30 reps a second it still takes 25 or so seconds to rep lol
Who reps from 0 armor?
The anti-tunnel snake taskforce has assembled
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Duke Noobiam
The Can Crushers
504
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Posted - 2015.07.10 17:49:00 -
[43] - Quote
MIn Sentinel. Go for a shield an speed build.
My favorite builds look like this...
Shield Recharger
Shield Extender
Damage mod
Shield Regulator
Kin Cat
HMG (Assault if you like)
Flaylock pistol
Grenade |
Ghost Steps
G0DS AM0NG MEN
New Eden's Heros
23
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Posted - 2015.07.10 20:21:00 -
[44] - Quote
Eruditus 920 wrote:and tell me what is on your mind. Matari or Gallente Sentinel?
Running out of SP sinks. Boredom on horizon.
Many Proto suits at ready. No Sentinel.
Slavers and Squids are wheels off.
Play solo. "Squad up" suck it.
Informed advice sought. Talkin' out arse discouraged.
Minsent gives u access to Archdukes
Caldari State FTW
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Demandred Moores
Sardaukar Merc Guild
General Tso's Alliance
71
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Posted - 2015.07.15 17:30:00 -
[45] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Players actually wondering what is best? Real choices? This makes my black heart stir. It's still Amarr :D
Calsent has been best sent since it came out. Don't sleep on it bruh I'll mow you down then your logi meet me in the pocket 1v2 you still gonna lose. |
Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
11
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Posted - 2015.07.15 17:39:00 -
[46] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:AHMG
Flaylock
Regulator
Kin Cat
2x Shield Ext
Shield Energizer
Same fit I run.
Works fantastic.
Currently listening to: Tsukihime OST
Un-Retired PC Scout. I miss the old days ;_;
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Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
11
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Posted - 2015.07.15 17:52:00 -
[47] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Reign Omega wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:I like my gal sent: but I set mine up for regen, rather than eHP, like a true gal suit.
Its armor regens as fast as, if not faster than its shields. Even at 30 reps a second it still takes 25 or so seconds to rep lol Who reps from 0 armor?
This. It's made for constant reps in CQC.
My favorite Bruiser suit is actually a Galmando.
I run 1x Complex Plate, 2x Complex Reps, 2x Complex Light Damage mods. Duvolle Specialist Shotgun and Specialist Assault Rifle (Commandos are hard to fit sometimes  )
Weighing in at almost 1000 HP, this suit dishes out mean damage. The AR deals 715 DPS to shields and 585 DPS to armor. Combined with rapid reloading and almost 24 hp/s armor rep, this suit is a monster. Packs a Shotgun for CQC prowess. Heavy trying to turn the corner? 2 Shot the sucker. Shotgun deals 828 damage a shot to shields and 682 to armor.
It's a monster. Play the CQC game right and the only thing that will remove you is a lot of explosives.
Currently listening to: Tsukihime OST
Un-Retired PC Scout. I miss the old days ;_;
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Stupid Blueberry
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
1
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Posted - 2015.07.15 20:02:00 -
[48] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Players actually wondering what is best? Real choices? This makes my black heart stir.
It's getting really close to time for a new dropsuit tier to be introduced 
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu.
Haajakin Kalen.
Orbital Laser S is hot.
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Victor889
WarRavens
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
281
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Posted - 2015.07.15 20:16:00 -
[49] - Quote
Eruditus 920 wrote:and tell me what is on your mind. Matari or Gallente Sentinel?
Running out of SP sinks. Boredom on horizon.
Many Proto suits at ready. No Sentinel.
Slavers and Squids are wheels off.
Play solo. "Squad up" suck it.
Informed advice sought. Talkin' out arse discouraged.
Tough choice, Cal sent is best for damage and alpha
Amarr sent = best sent
Min sentinel is the best for hit and run but quite squishy.
Gal sent is weakest, doesn't rep fast enough - in my opinion it should have the same repair rate as the Cal sent but with armour, that would make it balanced seeing as it has crap all shields.
a choice between the 2 is Min sent every time, although Robocop does look awesome in his size 15's. |
Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
Learning Alliance
6
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Posted - 2015.07.15 20:18:00 -
[50] - Quote
Eruditus 920 wrote:and tell me what is on your mind. Matari or Gallente Sentinel?
Running out of SP sinks. Boredom on horizon.
Many Proto suits at ready. No Sentinel.
Slavers and Squids are wheels off.
Play solo. "Squad up" suck it.
Informed advice sought. Talkin' out arse discouraged.
You could do what I just did on an alt... find a Skin you like and then skill into that Sentinel Suit.
It does not matter if you win or lose, as long as you look cool doing it! 
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Dalmont Legrand
679
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Posted - 2015.07.15 21:06:00 -
[51] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:It does not matter if you win or lose, as long as you look cool doing it!
Adolf was pretty stylish too though he lost...
"Shred Memories" | Reality Fiction
The best is yet to come
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Artemis Hyde
DUST University
Ivy League
3
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Posted - 2015.07.15 21:50:00 -
[52] - Quote
Eruditus 920 wrote:and tell me what is on your mind. Matari or Gallente Sentinel?
Running out of SP sinks. Boredom on horizon.
Many Proto suits at ready. No Sentinel.
Slavers and Squids are wheels off.
Play solo. "Squad up" suck it.
Informed advice sought. Talkin' out arse discouraged.
oddly enough that last few bits reminded me of mordin from mass effect 2 and 3
A+ |
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