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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
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Posted - 2015.07.09 11:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:DRT 99 wrote:tbh the damage bonus isnt balanced and i'd be glad to see it go. The damage bonus doesn't matter nearly as much as anyone thinks. The reload bonuses with support weapons and AV weapons are what give commandos their real punch. A commando has a 5% advantage over their racial assault for max DPS output.
at what cost? who honestly runs all damage mods on the assault suits other than the armor tankers?
commandos may only have a small advantage in DPS but they have way more eHP while doing it. |
DeathwindRising
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Posted - 2015.07.09 16:19:00 -
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Breakin Stuff wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:DRT 99 wrote:tbh the damage bonus isnt balanced and i'd be glad to see it go. The damage bonus doesn't matter nearly as much as anyone thinks. The reload bonuses with support weapons and AV weapons are what give commandos their real punch. A commando has a 5% advantage over their racial assault for max DPS output. at what cost? who honestly runs all damage mods on the assault suits other than the armor tankers? commandos may only have a small advantage in DPS but they have way more eHP while doing it. No they don't. Not unless they bricktank. And they have less HP than sentinels. And they lack the sentinel resists. And they move slower than assaults and they're easier to hit. And they can't throw a core locus nade at you. Right now the commandos and assault suits are neck and neck in efficiency on the battlefield. One seems as effective as the other. Except the calmando. That one's shield stats suck. Rattati looks like he may be applying the kinetic (railgun -10/+10) to swarms, and thusly removing that from the minmando. This will result in a slightly less obnoxious swarm launcher. Realistically if you gave assaults two light weapons instead of light/sidearm the assault and commando would still be equally efficient. The sidearms being effective killing weapons mean that an assault isn't hamstrung by running out of primary ammo. With rattati talking about buffing the gallente and caldari assault light weapon bonuses things are evening out pretty well overall. The amarr commando no longer is the bad joke it used to be. The minmando will probably lose its AV king title. the galmando is actually dangerous as more than an incidental threat now. And the caldari is still bottom rung for the same reason calassaults are: shield stats. So tell me... how does the comando bonus break the game? 5% damage per shot average (because the fitting meta of commandos is almost identical to assaults now) isn't going to beat a caldari with a rail recoil bonus, the amarr heat bonus, the min magazine bonus or the gallente if they get a decent damage application bonus. You saying that a thing is bad when your statement flies in the face of all evidence to the contrary is very interesting. But I'm game. Explain to me how the commando damage bonus is unfair. If you can convince me legitimately, you might have a chance of pushing your argument past rattati. Just remember to include testable evidence so we can prove or disprove your thesis.
im not sure what you thought i was getting at. i was saying that assaults may get similar DPS to commandos, but they only can get that by stacking damage mods so in the case of a cal assault vs a cal commando, the commando doesnt need to give up HP slots to keep its damage.
the big thing i like about the commando damage bonus is that its a free upgrade to your weapon at all tiers. standard weapons perform like proto weapons. so i can run standard suits but maintain the killing potential of a proto suit.
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DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
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Posted - 2015.07.09 16:50:00 -
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Breakin Stuff wrote:Ehhh. That has more to do with how modules are balanced more than anything.
If damage mods were low slot people would be crying that caldari have an unfair advantage.
If we had a low slot weapon upgrade to match the high we might see actual progress.
unfair advantage is stacking both damage AND hp without giving up one for the other.
shields have less hp, no logistical support, cant rep hp through damage, and deal less damage than armor tankers.
how exactly are shield tankers supposed to fight using that design? gallente can run at the same movement speeds as caldari, but with all of the benefits of being an armor tanker, so you cant even say that caldari are hit n run styled.
we gave way too many advantages to armor tankers compared to shield tankers.
if you armor tank your fitting is simple. plates and a rep in your lows, and damage mods in you highs.
shield tanking? yea, youve got to fit shield regulators and rechargers/energizers, which dont work until your out of combat. AND you have to manage the shield stats. shield delays, too long and youll succumb to random gunfire and spray n pray. shield recharge too low compared to HP and youll risk not fully recovering that hp between fights. but if shield HP isnt high enough, then you get you shield one shotted by ScR or flux nades, and suffer the depleted delay. hell even with high hp you can be one shotted and suffer the depleted delay.
if shields could recharge while taking damage, then i could say that shield tanking should focus more on the regen over hp, which would obviously differ from armor tanking's hp over regen. but we force lower hp abd lower damage dealing, to compete against high hp and higher damage dealing thats also suppoted by logistics and other external factors.
shield tanking has very little advantage over armor tanking |
DeathwindRising
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Posted - 2015.07.10 01:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:So were you going to tell me something I was unaware of?
Or do you just have a burning need to prove me wrong about something?
The 10% commando damage bonus has nothing to do with your post. Nor does the forum topic.
Further, people who only stack reps and plates tend to have a bad time of it. Especially since armor meta is ferroscales over plates.
I've vomited shield buff solutions enough, they will get fixed or they won't. At this point I'm not interested in rehashing old ground I have already tread.
If they put a weapon mod that increases weapon viability on shield suits your argument falls apart because then shields too will be able to stack damage and HP.
But thanks for trying to lecture me. I'm sure that I might have potentially learned something.
Seriously ive been chiming in on shields for months. Don't get your panties in a twist with me about them.
My original post was about the comment that the commando damage bonus isn't important, where I disagree with that.
Now if damage mods were moved to lows, I wouldn't call that unbalanced. Ferroscale plates still provide more hp than shields, and that hp can be repaired while taking damage. The damage mod requires that you give up a shield regulator, which hurts your regen. So you're trading regen for more damage, and that's fine too because the potential eHP while supported by logistics still leaves armor with the direct advantage.
But that's assuming the damage mod is traded for kincats. Anyways the point is that shield hp caps out a lot lower than armor hp can where shield hp still suffers from current mechanics during direct combat. It is meant to bridge the gaps between the two |
DeathwindRising
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Posted - 2015.07.10 04:25:00 -
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Aeon Amadi wrote:I'm really starting to wonder what the difference between Caldari Commandos and Caldari Assaults is going to be if Commandos get a PG/CPU reduction on weaponry.
Both would get a fitting reduction Both would get a reload speed bonus
Assault gets a grenade and slightly more mobility Commando gets a built in damage mod and slightly more EHP
As I said, we need to further differentiate these two classes and come up with legitimately different roles than trying to make them more similar. At this point it's like Espresso and Cappuccino. It's still freaggin coffee, people. They're both offensive roles with - increasingly - minor differences. If the Commandos are getting a fitting reduction to fit some new design spectrum involving Racial Dropsuit + Racial Weapon = Profit, that's fine, but the expense is going to leave players wondering what they're geared for. I'd imagine a new player will just look at them and figure them to just have different models.
They need distinction, rather than overlap.
the difference between cal assault and cal commando also includes that the commando has two light weapon slots lol |
DeathwindRising
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Posted - 2015.07.10 10:23:00 -
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hails8n wrote:Genral69 death wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Again, I am seriously thinking about dmg mods to lows and new ROF mods to high I'm not a fan of this idea. It would make the caldari commando worse off when sniping. Where's as if you put 5 damage mods on a ammar/gal assault (in the low slot) you might get a better damage rating I'm also not a fan of the rof mods or the slot switches. This update turned my suits on their heads enough already. All I need is a little cpu/pg on my commandos to use this extra mod slot.
use specialist weapons from the LP store to free up fitting space |
DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
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Posted - 2015.07.10 19:00:00 -
[7] - Quote
Dzago Sevatarion wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:RoF if applied at a 1:1value ups DPS more than straight damage.
10% RoF brings up the DPS more on average than 10% alpha.
Putting RoF on highs would actually ENHANCE armor suit ability to sh*t DPS. Shield suits would not receive the buff intended, as much as one might think. I think RoF should go in the lows, to enhance the slow-fire weapons favored by shield races. I don't see the proposal as a shield buff so much as a way of "hardcoding" armor tank --> CQC, shield tank --> range into the mechanics of the game. When I shield tank I tend to hide so this wouldn't really bother me, but I wonder how the Caldari sentinel would fair in this environment. Seems like a waste to make it even more inferior in CQC.
depends. shield damage threshold is really interesting mechanic to play with.
set it high enough, and you get situations where the cal sent could continue shield regen while taking damage, as long as the damage per shot isnt higher than the threshold.
for example if you set the value to 20, the cal sent could regen while taking hmg fire, but if he get hit with an AR from 20m away his shields stop recharging, because AR damage per shot is higher than 20.
if that same AR fire from 70m though, its damage per shot would like fall under 20m due to being outside its optimal and effective range. meaning the cal sent could regen its shield while taking fire the AR as well.
if weapons shoot faster they can still cause damage faster than the cal can regen its shields. so you'd still eat through them similar to how you can still kill a sentinel being repaired by logis if if can keep you damage on him long enough. |
DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
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Posted - 2015.07.10 19:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
hails8n wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:Dzago Sevatarion wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:RoF if applied at a 1:1value ups DPS more than straight damage.
10% RoF brings up the DPS more on average than 10% alpha.
Putting RoF on highs would actually ENHANCE armor suit ability to sh*t DPS. Shield suits would not receive the buff intended, as much as one might think. I think RoF should go in the lows, to enhance the slow-fire weapons favored by shield races. I don't see the proposal as a shield buff so much as a way of "hardcoding" armor tank --> CQC, shield tank --> range into the mechanics of the game. When I shield tank I tend to hide so this wouldn't really bother me, but I wonder how the Caldari sentinel would fair in this environment. Seems like a waste to make it even more inferior in CQC. depends. shield damage threshold is really interesting mechanic to play with. set it high enough, and you get situations where the cal sent could continue shield regen while taking damage, as long as the damage per shot isnt higher than the threshold. for example if you set the value to 20, the cal sent could regen while taking hmg fire, but if he get hit with an AR from 20m away his shields stop recharging, because AR damage per shot is higher than 20. if that same AR fire from 70m though, its damage per shot would like fall under 20m due to being outside its optimal and effective range. meaning the cal sent could regen its shield while taking fire the AR as well. if weapons shoot faster they can still cause damage faster than the cal can regen its shields. so you'd still eat through them similar to how you can still kill a sentinel being repaired by logis if if can keep you damage on him long enough. I don't think it works like that. It doesn't constantly rep through hmg damage, I think it only reps the 1st shot. See I have all cal suits and when I take down a caldaris shields I just pluck a little shield so he has to wait for the recharge delay again. I do the same to gunlogis and pythons also.
try this:
shoot a caldari suit with a smg from 70m to 100m
watch as his shields bounce back up as he takes damage.
it works because it happened to me while i was sniping. some noob shot me with his smg fromm 100m out.as i took damage, my shields would just regen back up. it gave me enough time to line up a headshot while sitting out in the open lol |
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