DUST Search - [SUGGESTION] Combating APEX power Creep with "APEX Modules"...

Piercing Serenity wrote:

Personally, I think that the once good idea that are APEX suits have gotten out of hand. APEX suits were originally designed as a foothold for new players, and (I believe) a test of the feasibility of tiericide and SKINs. Now, APEX suits are a "foothold" for vets who would like ADV / PRO fittings for free. I think this should change.

To do that, and to combat the power creep that APEX suits have wrought, I would suggest the following:

Reduce the CPU and PG of all APEX suits to 0 / 0

Introduce a suite of "APEX Modules" and "APEX Weapons" that complement all of the existing ISK modules and weapons

APEX Modules/Weapons cost 0CPU and 0PG, and have stats exactly averaged between STD and ADV modules/weapons

APEX Modules/Weapons can only be fit on APEX suits. Fitting them anywhere else gives an "INVALID FITTING"

APEX Modules/Weapons are sold in LP and DK store for LP + ISK, or DK

I think that this change accomplishes a few things. First, it is a good compromise between the rigidity of the original APEX suit and the flexibility of current APEX suits. Second, it prevents the suit from experiencing any more power creep, as all of the fitting combinations are strictly better than STD and strictly worse than ADV (Barring one exception). Third, it prevents the suit from needing any more stat nerfs, as it is essentially stat locked.

What do you all think?

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Piercing Serenity Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 1	Posted - 2015.07.07 19:15:00 - [1] - Quote Personally, I think that the once good idea that are APEX suits have gotten out of hand. APEX suits were originally designed as a foothold for new players, and (I believe) a test of the feasibility of tiericide and SKINs. Now, APEX suits are a "foothold" for vets who would like ADV / PRO fittings for free. I think this should change. To do that, and to combat the power creep that APEX suits have wrought, I would suggest the following: Reduce the CPU and PG of all APEX suits to 0 / 0 Introduce a suite of "APEX Modules" and "APEX Weapons" that complement all of the existing ISK modules and weapons APEX Modules/Weapons cost 0CPU and 0PG, and have stats exactly averaged between STD and ADV modules/weapons APEX Modules/Weapons can only be fit on APEX suits. Fitting them anywhere else gives an "INVALID FITTING" APEX Modules/Weapons are sold in LP and DK store for LP + ISK, or DK I think that this change accomplishes a few things. First, it is a good compromise between the rigidity of the original APEX suit and the flexibility of current APEX suits. Second, it prevents the suit from experiencing any more power creep, as all of the fitting combinations are strictly better than STD and strictly worse than ADV (Barring one exception). Third, it prevents the suit from needing any more stat nerfs, as it is essentially stat locked. What do you all think? "For people who don't really do S**T, ya'll really doing the most" Lv. 1 Forum Warrior
emm kay Direct Action Resources 355	Posted - 2015.07.07 19:35:00 - [2] - Quote I think that instead of 0/0, both of the stats should be cut in half. leaves room for new players, but not enough room to be abused. There is a reason you never see me in battle. it's because I see you first.
Krias Thracian Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 53	Posted - 2015.07.07 20:37:00 - [3] - Quote Piercing Serenity wrote: Personally, I think that the once good idea that are APEX suits have gotten out of hand. APEX suits were originally designed as a foothold for new players, and (I believe) a test of the feasibility of tiericide and SKINs. Now, APEX suits are a "foothold" for vets who would like ADV / PRO fittings for free. I think this should change. To do that, and to combat the power creep that APEX suits have wrought, I would suggest the following: Reduce the CPU and PG of all APEX suits to 0 / 0 Introduce a suite of "APEX Modules" and "APEX Weapons" that complement all of the existing ISK modules and weapons APEX Modules/Weapons cost 0CPU and 0PG, and have stats exactly averaged between STD and ADV modules/weapons APEX Modules/Weapons can only be fit on APEX suits. Fitting them anywhere else gives an "INVALID FITTING" APEX Modules/Weapons are sold in LP and DK store for LP + ISK, or DK I think that this change accomplishes a few things. First, it is a good compromise between the rigidity of the original APEX suit and the flexibility of current APEX suits. Second, it prevents the suit from experiencing any more power creep, as all of the fitting combinations are strictly better than STD and strictly worse than ADV (Barring one exception). Third, it prevents the suit from needing any more stat nerfs, as it is essentially stat locked. What do you all think? I think Apex suits are a far cry from Proto fits of any description. Most of the modules fitted to them aren't even in the Advanced Category and they already lack enough PG/CPU to fit prototype gear. They're miles behind the equivalent prototype suits in terms of PG/CPU(deliberately so). They provide a foothold not just for new players, but for players who are more casual and cannot, or don't wish to, devote the time required to become good enough to run those kind of fittings and for whom the idea of a suit somewhere above the most basic, but quite a way below the top tier was attractive for their casual style. They also work for new players as you described. I don't see anything wrong with them as they are, I think opening the fittings was a good idea as their PG/CPU is extremely limited compared with Prototype suits and the rest of their stats are quite some way behind. I'm not sure I see the merit of your suggestion as you've basically suggested the exact opposite of tiericide by creating another "tier" of upgrades that can only be fitted to apex suits. So pretty much every module will need this tier of apex modules. They did effectively that without the overhead when they had the fits locked. They unlocked the fits for a reason, what makes you think they will relock them again in a manner that will make the performance issues worse and contribute to the whole problem that tiers have? If I have misunderstood your proposal then I apologise, but this is how it appears to read.
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.07.07 21:47:00 - [4] - Quote How does this combat the issue of Power Creep though? Making a whole new set of modules that can only be fit to APEX suits doesn't reduce that any, it just makes it so that we have even more assets, market items, and database clutter. It doesn't reduce the power of APEX suits, really, as they're still better than Standard BPO gear. 10% of US schools no longer teach Cursive. A decade from now, 10% of the US isn't going to understand all the squiglies.
Piercing Serenity Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 1	Posted - 2015.07.07 22:36:00 - [5] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: How does this combat the issue of Power Creep though? Making a whole new set of modules that can only be fit to APEX suits doesn't reduce that any, it just makes it so that we have even more assets, market items, and database clutter. It doesn't reduce the power of APEX suits, really, as they're still better than Standard BPO gear. I was thinking that the suits would not be able to be any stronger than a ADV suit because they would only be able to fit STD/ADV mods. In that way, you wouldn't have a dual-tanked APEX Minmitar assault that is reasonably competitive. Additionally, I was defining power creep as a single asset (APEX in this case) becoming increasingly more powerful over time. I was not addressing the fact that APEX suits are BPOs that are better than STD suits (Largely because I don't know how to fix that without devaluing the suits). Finally, I don't think that adding an additional suit of modules is out of the questions. Why would it be anything more than an LP item with a unique tag and CPU/PG cost? "For people who don't really do S**T, ya'll really doing the most" Lv. 1 Forum Warrior
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.07.07 22:45:00 - [6] - Quote You act like you can fit full ADV on an APEX. While hilarious, is inaccurate. Best difference between the apex vs my STD fits was about 100 hp. Neither performed significantly better than the other. After fitting both suits (identically) with STD mods and an ADV breach AR? I was able to upgrade 3 modules to ADV on the APEX. Woo. Hoo. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Piercing Serenity Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 1	Posted - 2015.07.07 22:48:00 - [7] - Quote I don't doubt the fact that your upgraded suit got some more HP, but what did you fit? Did you play around with PG and CPU upgrades? Did you go for Min-Maxing? Or did you just do a straight upgrade of what was already on the suit? "For people who don't really do S**T, ya'll really doing the most" Lv. 1 Forum Warrior
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.07.07 23:00:00 - [8] - Quote Piercing Serenity wrote: I don't doubt the fact that your upgraded suit got some more HP, but what did you fit? Did you play around with PG and CPU upgrades? Did you go for Min-Maxing? Or did you just do a straight upgrade of what was already on the suit? Straight up. I've played the pg/cpu fitting game too. It did not allow more than fractional advantages ofer the zero-pg/cpu mod fit. I also fit according to my playstyle On a gallente assault three enh plates (yes I know everyone else hates them, I hate ferroscales. Deal with it) versus three STD plates. Also ran triple lex mods in the highs. Sure, you can fit proto pg and cpu mods. That will let you either upgrade to a proto gun from there ( ok increase in damage) or boost HP by sacrificing one of the slots I was using for HP entirely. Anything you gain from higher mods evens out because of the loss of the third plate. Used the fit to drill tge bejeezuz out of a buncha people before I went to test the commando. And if you sacrifice a slot for pg or cpu mods on a sentinel suit just sell it. Seriously. Just sell it. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
korrah silain True Illuminate 107	Posted - 2015.07.07 23:15:00 - [9] - Quote Piercing Serenity wrote: Personally, I think that the once good idea that are APEX suits have gotten out of hand. APEX suits were originally designed as a foothold for new players, and (I believe) a test of the feasibility of tiericide and SKINs. Now, APEX suits are a "foothold" for vets who would like ADV / PRO fittings for free. I think this should change. To do that, and to combat the power creep that APEX suits have wrought, I would suggest the following: Reduce the CPU and PG of all APEX suits to 0 / 0 Introduce a suite of "APEX Modules" and "APEX Weapons" that complement all of the existing ISK modules and weapons APEX Modules/Weapons cost 0CPU and 0PG, and have stats exactly averaged between STD and ADV modules/weapons APEX Modules/Weapons can only be fit on APEX suits. Fitting them anywhere else gives an "INVALID FITTING" APEX Modules/Weapons are sold in LP and DK store for LP + ISK, or DK I think that this change accomplishes a few things. First, it is a good compromise between the rigidity of the original APEX suit and the flexibility of current APEX suits. Second, it prevents the suit from experiencing any more power creep, as all of the fitting combinations are strictly better than STD and strictly worse than ADV (Barring one exception). Third, it prevents the suit from needing any more stat nerfs, as it is essentially stat locked. What do you all think? So...why should this change? I'm not seeing a reason to implement this other than 'non-noobs using them' they aren't particularly hard or unbalanced, just...economical? you ever get to that point where you know you should sleep, but ya just...dont? yeah...me too.


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