DUST Search - [SUGGESTION:] Power Cores and the Tiericide: more balanced powercore...

KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:

Krias Thracian wrote:

KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:

I, amongst many others, have been advocating, limitations on current suits but as everyone knows, it is a huge effort to redesign suit progression and Rattati hasn't tackled it.
Until now.

It would appear that you, Sir, don't understand the concept of tiericide. Suggest reading more about it.

I understand it fine, the point is not to make every suit the same, but to bring them closer to parity. If every suit was the same there would be no progression and a stagnant game.

There has to be some difference between the "tiers" (for want of a better word) and they are already being brought closer to parity with lower "tiers" getting the same slots and fitting options, constrained by PG/CPU. I see no benefit to arbitrarily forcing another mechanism unnecessarily.

The point is that this isn't true "tiericide", just as it wasn't in EvE, because if you do a true "tiericide" then there are no more tiers, all the suits are identical and we have a generic FPS, and a substandard one at that. The point is to bring them closer so that the gulf in performance is not as extreme, which is being accomplished from what I can see without the need of another nerf.

This part verifies that you do not understand the purpose and the idea of tiericide.

Now what I'm suggesting is not to bring suit tiers closer together. On the opposite, I propose another layer of differences.
But instead of increasing power at one area even further (or even total power), that would be a slight one in the opposite direction.

And this proposal of Scan Profile is very very slight indeed, just to add flavor and depth to choices.
Always pro-choice.


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Krias Thracian Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 59	Posted - 2015.07.11 17:32:00 - [1] - Quote I don't see any benefit to what you're suggesting other than to arbitrarily provide a downside to running proto. The gap will be lowered already, you want to add a deficiency to something that is only there to prevent the need for extra models etc. The cores are designed to be the PG/CPU of the suit, why should they do something else? If they add a mechanical nerf in the way you're suggesting, then you should be implying that all proto and adv suits as they currently stand should have a disadvantage built in because they're better. I disagree. Better gear is better, that's the point of progression, artificially trying to nerf them seems silly when PG/CPU is a much more elegant way of doing so.
Krias Thracian Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 60	Posted - 2015.07.11 20:19:00 - [2] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Krias Thracian wrote: I don't see any benefit to what you're suggesting other than to arbitrarily provide a downside to running proto. The gap will be lowered already, you want to add a deficiency to something that is only there to prevent the need for extra models etc. The cores are designed to be the PG/CPU of the suit, why should they do something else? If they add a mechanical nerf in the way you're suggesting, then you should be implying that all proto and adv suits as they currently stand should have a disadvantage built in because they're better. I disagree. Better gear is better, that's the point of progression, artificially trying to nerf them seems silly when PG/CPU is a much more elegant way of doing so. I, amongst many others, have been advocating, limitations on current suits but as everyone knows, it is a huge effort to redesign suit progression and Rattati hasn't tackled it. Until now. It would appear that you, Sir, don't understand the concept of tiericide. Suggest reading more about it. I understand it fine, the point is not to make every suit the same, but to bring them closer to parity. If every suit was the same there would be no progression and a stagnant game. There has to be some difference between the "tiers" (for want of a better word) and they are already being brought closer to parity with lower "tiers" getting the same slots and fitting options, constrained by PG/CPU. I see no benefit to arbitrarily forcing another mechanism unnecessarily. The point is that this isn't true "tiericide", just as it wasn't in EvE, because if you do a true "tiericide" then there are no more tiers, all the suits are identical and we have a generic FPS, and a substandard one at that. The point is to bring them closer so that the gulf in performance is not as extreme, which is being accomplished from what I can see without the need of another nerf.
Krias Thracian Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 61	Posted - 2015.07.12 09:40:00 - [3] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Krias Thracian wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: I, amongst many others, have been advocating, limitations on current suits but as everyone knows, it is a huge effort to redesign suit progression and Rattati hasn't tackled it. Until now. It would appear that you, Sir, don't understand the concept of tiericide. Suggest reading more about it. I understand it fine, the point is not to make every suit the same, but to bring them closer to parity. If every suit was the same there would be no progression and a stagnant game. There has to be some difference between the "tiers" (for want of a better word) and they are already being brought closer to parity with lower "tiers" getting the same slots and fitting options, constrained by PG/CPU. I see no benefit to arbitrarily forcing another mechanism unnecessarily. The point is that this isn't true "tiericide", just as it wasn't in EvE, because if you do a true "tiericide" then there are no more tiers, all the suits are identical and we have a generic FPS, and a substandard one at that. The point is to bring them closer so that the gulf in performance is not as extreme, which is being accomplished from what I can see without the need of another nerf. This part verifies that you do not understand the purpose and the idea of tiericide. Now what I'm suggesting is not to bring suit tiers closer together. On the opposite, I propose another layer of differences. But instead of increasing power at one area even further (or even total power), that would be a slight one in the opposite direction. And this proposal of Scan Profile is very very slight indeed, just to add flavor and depth to choices. Always pro-choice. No, again, you are taking the section that you feel most supports your line of reasoning and distorting both the context and intent. The word tiericide has been incorrectly used to define a reduction in gap between the power levels of suits in the game. The word in its literal definition means the total removal of all tiers, which is what I was getting at. You have quoted the "tiericide" in eve as a source, but you've completely misunderstood what the point of "Tiericide" in eve was: "As CCP Ytterbium outlined in his Fanfest 2012 Balancing presentation, followed up with multiple dev blogs, the Tiericide initiative replaced those old tiers with a series of ship lines that represented distinct strengths and weaknesses for distinct roles. Each tech one ship within the same class (like GÇ£cruiserGÇ¥ or GÇ£frigateGÇ¥) post-Tiericide is intended to have roughly similar overall power, but that power can and should be expressed in a variety of forms." Source: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/rebalancing-eve-one-module-at-a-time/ You'll notice that they're specifically stating that Tech ONE ships within the same class are intended to have the same level of power. Tech II ships are still significantly more powerful, and should be. There was no intent to hamstring the tech II ships (equivalent to proto) any more than bringing the power of Tech 1 ships up slightly. Once again, I understand what you're talking about fine, you are making incorrect inferences based on what you want to hear. In true tiericide we have no tiers at all, but there is no need to add another mechanism of balance when PG/CPU fitting is easily the most elegant way of doing so. This is not true tiericide, it's just the name that's been coined for it. PG/CPU stops you fitting ridiculous tank AND DPS. You have to choose one. Or you can fit for top tier equipment but you have to sacrifice tank if you're logistics. Proto has more which gives you more option, I do not see any need for further balance or a nerf to something that should be better, but just shouldn't be quite as much better.
Krias Thracian Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 61	Posted - 2015.07.12 09:47:00 - [4] - Quote Veg Hegirin wrote: Fundamentally the only problem with PRO suits is that they feel unfair. You die to a PRO suit and it gets rubbed in your face, "you never had a chance lol". In terms of things like power, progression, or isk cost they're fine. IMO look at ways to combat that feeling of helplessness. A few weeks ago I proposed providing a small reward and/or notification, e.g. +5WP for a pro/off kill, or a notification akin to the headshot airhorn My problem has never been dying to proto suits, my problem is, for example, walking right up behind someone with an adv shotgun with full skills, shooting them directly in the back of the head they don't die and start moving, shooting them two or three more times and not hitting from near point blank range. THAT offends me. I can live with dying, it happens, but it is endlessly frustrating when you die due to a poorly implemented physics engine that can't do hit detection. IN AN FPS, THE MOST IMPORTANT ATTRIBUTE DOESN'T WORK PROPERLY. At this point the only thing that's keeping me playing is the vaunted and promised increased connection to eve and the possibility of a port to another machine type (PS4 and PC hopefully) in which they might fix it. That and a PC port would really help because I'm absolutely awful with a pad, I'm not gonna lie, it's why I use shotguns. Can't miss at point blank......ohhhh wait....