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[Veteran_Sindavathar Jr]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 17:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
That is all. |
[Veteran_NewOldMan]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 17:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
This would be rather interesting to see, as long as they were only jump packs, and not jet packs. (being able to jump higher is fine, being able to fly is not in my book, since these are two rather different things. |
[Veteran_Zekain Kade]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 17:41:00 -
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I would like to see how jump packs would work in this game. Hell I'd like to see thruster packs (being able to skate along the ground at twice the running speed in any direction, but only being able to use it once or twice per charge.) |
[Veteran_Commsnipes16]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 17:47:00 -
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You don't want this turning into HALO though with their extremely ridiculous jumps |
[Veteran_Sindavathar Jr]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 17:58:00 -
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Any of you gents played/read warhammer 40k stuff? Like the space marine jump packs. Basically a super jump with controlled landing =D! I would LOVE to see that since they have the controlled landing in place. And it would be a good anti flyer class. Jump up close to a flyer and try to plan explosives if its low enough. Then fall back down. |
[Veteran_Templar Two]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 18:01:00 -
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Actually I would love to see Jetpacks. Killzone 3 has them and they are great fun, if not too easy to use (lot of fuel, mounted guns). PlanetSide 2 has jetpacks and hell they look great.
CCP should really balance jetpacks very carefully but thay could open a new layer of possibilities not only in gamepaly but also in map design.
IMO Jetpacks coudl be balanced so that you surely are far more mobile but at the same time you must renounce protection (armor shields) to use them. Flies are very fragile after all ;) |
[Veteran_Sindavathar Jr]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 18:13:00 -
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Its eve-online! Spaceships exist. Weapons that can shatter planets exist! (DD) So jumppacks should exists! If not on launch (which i don't think it will be) but in a later expansion! |
[Veteran_Templar Two]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 18:18:00 -
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Sure pal: post lauch for sure. We have other priorities now..but I am already excited by this new possibility. |
[Veteran_Zekain Kade]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 18:19:00 -
[9] - Quote
Make jump packs an equipment item so you'll have to switch to it in order to use it, that should balance it out.
You wont be able to shoot while using it. It'll have 1/2 uses per life. It'll have multiple variants in the market. When you have one on your fitting, it'll be shown on your characters' back when others look at you. give it a high CPU, and energy use. Also, let it drain stamina when you use it. (maybe)
Doesn't that sound balanced? |
[Veteran_CookieStein]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 18:24:00 -
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Yes to JUMP PACKS not jet packs...the length of boost in KZ3 puts them in the jump pack category not jet. 40k or Section 8 style would be great but this would all be for an expansion, shouldn't be considered for launch. |
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[Veteran_bjorn morkai]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 18:32:00 -
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jump packs would be cool. just a short little burst up to a rock cliff. i would think theyd go great on scout armor. |
[Veteran_Templar Two]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 18:55:00 -
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Jetpacks much like Stealth Cloaking could have energy/fuel gauge that recharge slowly after use: simpler solution. Or alternatively they could use Shields: balancing solved in one move. |
[Veteran_Traynor Youngs]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 19:51:00 -
[13] - Quote
Zekain Kade wrote:Make jump packs an equipment item so you'll have to switch to it in order to use it, that should balance it out.
You wont be able to shoot while using it. It'll have 1/2 uses per life. It'll have multiple variants in the market. When you have one on your fitting, it'll be shown on your characters' back when others look at you. give it a high CPU, and energy use. Also, let it drain stamina when you use it. (maybe)
Doesn't that sound balanced?
I think instead of an arbitrary 1/2 uses per life, it should be fueled. Should hold enough fuel for one long max altitude burn, but you control how much you use for each jump by how long you hold it down. Then, it can refill when you get a nano hive or supply point. This way, since it is equipment you can't carry nano hives at the same time, so you have to have support for it but you also have some flexibility.
Also, you should be able to board dropships by jumping up to them.
So this could be an aggressive mobility, or emergency egress to a dropship for snipers and such, but would have trade off. |
[Veteran_Sindavathar Jr]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 20:05:00 -
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Traynor Youngs wrote: So this could be an aggressive mobility, or emergency egress to a dropship for snipers and such, but would have trade off.
But you can initiate a controlled descent if you jump out of a air born ship already. Unless I misunderstood the above statement?
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[Veteran_Kitt 514]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 20:13:00 -
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Jump-pack could be cool. My concern with a jetpack though is more about the people playing the game. Everything added must carefully be examined to see wether it can be exploited to ****. I believe a jetpack could. |
[Veteran_Traynor Youngs]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 20:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
Sindavathar Jr wrote:Traynor Youngs wrote: So this could be an aggressive mobility, or emergency egress to a dropship for snipers and such, but would have trade off.
But you can initiate a controlled descent if you jump out of a air born ship already. Unless I misunderstood the above statement?
I meant that dropship hovers overhead and you jump with jump pack up to it and push O button to board.
So exfiltration via Jumppack to Dropship. |
[Veteran_Sindavathar Jr]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 20:16:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ah ok sorry I misunderstood. Ya once conquest map comes out it would be amazing to do that! a group jumps out of the flyer captures a point waits for it to self-d then jumps up to flyer |
[Veteran_Sintel Jenner]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 20:37:00 -
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Sindavathar Jr wrote:That is all. Dropships. That is already in the game. Use them. |
[Veteran_Sindavathar Jr]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 20:45:00 -
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Sintel Jenner wrote:Sindavathar Jr wrote:That is all. Dropships. That is already in the game. Use them.
And interceptors are in eveonline. Multiple function in a same sized suit. you have -recon -command -heavy -assault -and one im missing i think.
So why not add another more versatile class later on? People have a need for speed that involves small things. Sometimes you wanna be able to go that extra speed without using a vehicle. |
[Veteran_Sintel Jenner]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 21:26:00 -
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Sindavathar Jr wrote:Sometimes you wanna be able to go that extra speed without using a vehicle. Yes, I'd like to be king of all Londinium and wear a shiny hat. Just use the dropships. |
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[Veteran_Nova Knife]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 21:43:00 -
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No. That is all.
Seriously - You can't make a 'suggestion' without at least providing some thoughts on how to implement them, what they would add to the game, or even why you want them added.
"Because they are awesome, or because XXX game had them" Are not valid reasons.
Any game with enhanced jumping simply makes you see everyone jump nonstop during combat. They already nerfed jumping once to make it cost more stamina and not possible to jump with less than half of your maximum. Why would they revert that change by giving everyone superjumps? Granted, jumping makes you an easier target to anyone who can actually aim, the majority of players can't track people for whatever reason. Totally different ball of wax, and I digress. A lot of the terrain is designed so that you can get up/around it. Terrain is not just there to look pretty as scenery, it creates bottlenecks that enforce 'tactical gameplay'. If you can ignore terrain as you please to just go whereever you want, you risk breaking the game, as everything may as well be flat at that point. An infantry who is hard to see should not have unhindered mobility, ever. If you want unlimited mobility around the battlefield without worrying about terrain- Like said above, use a dropship.
As mentioned in an above post : Jetpacks are terrible for essentially the same reasons I just listed. They are slightly more acceptable if anti-air weapons are able to lock them and installations saw them as a valid auto-fire target. However, they still seem highly unnecessary and any 'advantage' they pose is mirrored by a dropship, which has the added bonus of being able to carry more people, better guns, more tank, have people spawn in it, and (later) cloak. |
[Veteran_Sindavathar Jr]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 22:00:00 -
[22] - Quote
To quickly rebuttal. Jump packs could be the MWD of infantry. Where it gives you an enormous speed and altitude gain temporarily, but in turn limits what weapons you can fit. Essentially tacklers. There is for sure going to be some sort of emp weapon that give infantry a small tactical advantage against HAV's which will either work like Webs, or points. The role of such a jump pack would be to jump from behind cover/behind a buidling/or up to a flyer and attack it electronically. PG was never large requirement for ewar but it was for nano tanks. So in theory a large PG consumption and maybe a reduction to movement speed and maybe tank, would, in my opinion be fair.
How broken will a person with a jet pack be holding a anti-vehicle weapon, ie remote explosives, and a pistol? Their anti-infantry roll should and would be limited. This would bring us back to the simple rock paper scissors game. Right now its just paper-scissors-titanium hammer. If that makes at all sense.
And all in all this would serve as a mobile boost OVER cover, to perform guerrilla warfare. I'd say cloaking would be a viable option also but that's a completely different story. |
[Veteran_Dirk Bungler]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 23:10:00 -
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You can already jump 8 feet into the air as it is... |
[Veteran_Alpha SnakeBlood]
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Posted - 2012.06.10 00:22:00 -
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Id like to see it in game but i can see it turning into bunnyhoppingXL basicly if implemented implement it in beta try to balence it if it cant be balenced get rid of it its a risky contrapion to have ingame i think one way would be to have shot to the back of the character using the pack act as critical or something like that that effectivly ends in a explosion which would make sence due to the power system either a reactor or fuel bein in it, reactor making more sence if it recharges. |
[Veteran_Templar Two]
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Posted - 2012.06.10 09:40:00 -
[25] - Quote
If you consume shields while using the jetpack then you become even more vulnerable. Think about it: It takes 10 standard AR bullets to kill a scout with max shields, so if he uses the jet pack it will take progressively less bullets. Bunny hopping has no armor/shiled penalty and that's why it much more difficult to kill a bunny hopper...it won't be the same with jetpacks if they consume shields. Alternative if we have adopt a fuel/energy system both armor and shield could be lowered to compensate for the fact that you must be lighter foe the jetpack to actually make you fly.
Nova Dropships can carry heavies and all kind of mercs: jetpacks clearly won't be available for Heavies. Also it's not like everyone wants to have a jetpack...there will always be clients for dropship pilots.
If we work together, we discuss, we can get jetpacks to work well. |
[Veteran_Heinikikin]
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Posted - 2012.06.10 11:36:00 -
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Im all for jetpacks in a limited role but as I found out in a previous thread nova is oh so against them, its almost pathological. maybe he knows something we dont
If you put another skill line in the game in doesnt mean every bloody tom, **** and harry will go after it. Just like a dropship full of heavies dropped on relay B will take it pretty quickly so might a jumpack squad take other objectives. A dropship is a rook but a jumpsuit would be your knight. What objectives you might ask? Well, snipers and swarmers up on cliffs with roundabout paths to get to. Badass turrets on hard to get to ledges. Lots of dudes with missile launchers/AV stuff hugging a point you need taking out all your dropships. Using a rush tactic as waiting for a dropship takes time. Need I go on?
Implementation. An eve like role bonus but for suites. Using that jumpsuit gives you -99% PG on suite requirements for jump mods so only that suit can fit them.. So with its many specific uses you need many limitations.
skills suits (through role bonuses) tactical necessity ISK Cooldown/cycle time/rpm whatever uses all cap So you see it could be very specailised with limited but much needed uses.
AND another reason for skilling and isking up for them would be that they would be bloody fun. Dust has an awesome art team and good programmers I'm sure they'd do the adrenaline junkies justice.
I must strongly agree with nova though on development time. I just feel this is something that should be looked into hopefully for a feature later on. It would spice things up for a later expansion and although the jury is still out on EVEs new modules the idea is solid even if its not executed well.
Gameplay will need to be opened up a little as people get old and bitter, they will need more options to aim for and this type of avenue could alleviate that a little. CCP if your keen to try and hold your 3-4year plus players in DUST then youll need more for them to train into.
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[Veteran_Templar Two]
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Posted - 2012.06.10 11:56:00 -
[27] - Quote
I don't want jetpacks to be in the next built (June29th) but there's not harm in talking about Jetpacks now. The sooner CCP knows our "wishes", intentions, the better they can plan their work IMO.
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[Veteran_Heinikikin]
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Posted - 2012.06.10 12:01:00 -
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Templar Two wrote:I don't want jetpacks to be in the next built (June29th) but there's not harm in talking about Jetpacks now. The sooner CCP knows our "wishes", intentions, the better they can plan their work IMO.
Yes
I would like to know if ccp has thoughts on this in regards to a future feature and whether those thoughts are no or maybe. Then we can more talk.
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[Veteran_Velikar Breakage]
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Posted - 2012.06.10 13:47:00 -
[29] - Quote
No jump packs, we want this to be a team game, we don't want guys with Buzz Lightyear fantasies blasting off and screwing our game plan up.
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[Veteran_Templar Two]
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Posted - 2012.06.10 14:08:00 -
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^^^ You make the equation jetpacks = no teamwork.
Do you realize that we could have medics with jetpacks. |
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[Veteran_Mavado V Noriega]
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Posted - 2012.06.10 15:32:00 -
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Zekain Kade wrote:I would like to see how jump packs would work in this game. Hell I'd like to see thruster packs (being able to skate along the ground at twice the running speed in any direction, but only being able to use it once or twice per charge.)
if u want to see how jump packs work take a look @ killzone 3 and how they did it
EDIT: i see ppl talking about jetpacks im against any form of this. Jump packs however like how KZ3 had them, im open to see how they could work. We dont need ppl flying through the air all game with jetpacks |
[Veteran_JohnnyAugust]
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Posted - 2012.06.10 15:37:00 -
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Nova Knife wrote:No. That is all.
Seriously - You can't make a 'suggestion' without at least providing some thoughts on how to implement them, what they would add to the game, or even why you want them added.
"Because they are awesome, or because XXX game had them" Are not valid reasons.
Any game with enhanced jumping simply makes you see everyone jump nonstop during combat. They already nerfed jumping once to make it cost more stamina and not possible to jump with less than half of your maximum. Why would they revert that change by giving everyone superjumps? Granted, jumping makes you an easier target to anyone who can actually aim, the majority of players can't track people for whatever reason. Totally different ball of wax, and I digress. A lot of the terrain is designed so that you can get up/around it. Terrain is not just there to look pretty as scenery, it creates bottlenecks that enforce 'tactical gameplay'. If you can ignore terrain as you please to just go whereever you want, you risk breaking the game, as everything may as well be flat at that point. An infantry who is hard to see should not have unhindered mobility, ever. If you want unlimited mobility around the battlefield without worrying about terrain- Like said above, use a dropship.
As mentioned in an above post : Jetpacks are terrible for essentially the same reasons I just listed. They are slightly more acceptable if anti-air weapons are able to lock them and installations saw them as a valid auto-fire target. However, they still seem highly unnecessary and any 'advantage' they pose is mirrored by a dropship, which has the added bonus of being able to carry more people, better guns, more tank, have people spawn in it, and (later) cloak.
This. You want jumppacks? Play KZ, Warhawk, or Starhawk --- something those games do unapologetic b/c those are what those games are meant to do. I want a legit shooter. Jetpack implementation is begging for this to be turned into a cartoony spam swarm ridden arcade game. |
[Veteran_Danfen Stark]
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Posted - 2012.06.10 15:56:00 -
[33] - Quote
I say...
A. Jumppack, not Jetpack. Make it so it lifts you up, but only for 2-3 seconds, to get up some of the higher ledges. B. Make it empty your shields. Easily explained that the power for your shields are instead diverted to power the Jumppack
AND
C. Give it a limited amount of uses per life (rechargable via nanohives etc)
D. Make it a module to be fitted, such as in an equipment slot
Afterall, they should be a tool for navigating terrain and overcomming obstacles. Under this system, they 'can' still be used in combat, but only as a last resort, such as to escape by jumping up the nearest cliff. People who try to bunnyhop with them will soon learn...
It may 'seem' severely gimped, but only through looking at it from a direct combat perspective imo. |
[Veteran_Traynor Youngs]
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Posted - 2012.06.10 16:09:00 -
[34] - Quote
I think that any idea, if balanced, is just another dimension to the game.
For those that say jumppacks=no teamwork, I could say fast scout drop suits just run away and go all hero, so scouts = no teamwork. Or I could say that the heavies slow us down and we leave them, so heavies=no teamwork. Or I could say tanks only have one pilot and can't follow into buildings and so we leave them behind, so tanks=no teamwork...see where I am going with this?
As for the "if you want jump packs, go play XXX" Well if you don't want jump packs go play a game without them. Another spurious argument.
Now, for the constructive part.
A jump pack that has some set thrust. This thrust acts differently based on how heavy you are. So a heavy suit with a jump pack would not be able to jump nearly as high and would take longer to do so. THis way it is not restrictive to a single suit, but a tradeoff. Second, it should use a fuel that is like ammo, has to be refueled and can only be good enough to get a scout from the bottom of the canyon, onto one of the mesas on our current map, but that would eat up all of the fuel. A heavy would be able to jump over something smaller, or over a barrier but not much else. They should be an equipment slot so you can't carry them and nano hives. Your shield and armor repair should not work while using it (it takes all your suits power) or they could have a set % decrease to shields, and you shouldn't be able to use any primary weapons while jumping, only sidearms and only from the hip and should suffer from a penalty to accuracy. They should also be pretty hard CPU/Powergrid wise to fit it but not so much to require a 99% reduction bonus on any kind.
So in summary, Equipment slot so they prevent you from having too much utility/power to solo with it. Uses fuel that needs to be refilled by nano hives or supply points. Has a thrust value that in relation to your suits weight, determines speed and height. Prevents your shield and armor reps from functioning while in use. (or set % decrease to shields all the time) needs discussion. Prevents primary weapon use. Only sidearms from the hip use Penalty to accuracy. Intensive to fit.
This would add some mobility to certain drop suit fits, but would require tradeoffs. They could easily be countered. They cannot operate solo well because they run out of fuel. They would not be good for "OMG!, RUN" because you make yourself visible and your shields and armor don't refill.
All in all, it would be fun, and would add an additional level of complexity and strategy to fitting and deployment. Does your sniper use a jump pack to get to those great sniper spots, or a nano hive so he can rearm when needed? |
[Veteran_Templar Two]
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Posted - 2012.06.10 16:29:00 -
[35] - Quote
Well I imagined the jetpacks to use fuel/energy bar but also that fuel/energy would regenerate over time. As a trade off for this kind of jetpacks should be that you can only fly for 2-3 seconds max.
Also to use jetpack you would have to sacrifice shields & armor: -Less shields because that powers is used for the the "fuel recharge" -Less armor because if you must be light to fly. |
[Veteran_Sintel Jenner]
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Posted - 2012.06.10 18:04:00 -
[36] - Quote
if.. IF.. and only IF we are going to be stuck with jumppacks because everyone is begging for them, they'd better work like mechwarrior jump jets. Although since we don't have an overheating mechanic in this game it's hard to really balance them. Still, I think it's a horrible idea. I just have flashbacks of Tribes with everyone jumping around like fleas on meth. |
[Veteran_Ascythian]
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Posted - 2012.06.10 18:26:00 -
[37] - Quote
As a current player of tribes ascend whose entire gameplay is based around jumppacks, I can only attest to their awesomeness. How they would work in dust 514 is another matter of course. |
[Veteran_Sintel Jenner]
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Posted - 2012.06.10 18:30:00 -
[38] - Quote
Well I only played the first Tribes. It was a mess, and I really would rather not see that kind of "gameplay" again. |
[Veteran_Ascythian]
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Posted - 2012.06.10 18:35:00 -
[39] - Quote
Sintel Jenner wrote:Well I only played the first Tribes. It was a mess, and I really would rather not see that kind of "gameplay" again.
Different strokes for different folks although I personally like different kinds of fps's. I currently like ascends fast movement based, class based gameplay [best free to play game so far I think]. Dust 514 is a more realistic, tactical futuristic based gameplay which I also like but that doesn't mean jetpacks have no future. They just have to be designed well and the controls would need to be decent. Also swarm launchers would be able to home in on them ;P |
[Veteran_knight dt]
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Posted - 2012.06.11 05:15:00 -
[40] - Quote
As I said about them before: "Jet Packs. Yes, if you let people shoot while flying then that increases the rate of foolish wild gunfire, people doing crazy up/down bunny exploitation things. But what if you couldn't shoot while flying? Also, there is the problem of people getting damaged and then flying away before you can kill them. But what if armor damage prevented flight? Problem of increased mobility being an advantage far above any other speed module attachment. How about limiting fuel to just a few short jumps or one moderate jump?
Each of the other suggestions also has drawbacks and flaws that could be discussed.
My point is simply that there are ways these could be implemented to increase options (and fun) without giving unfair advantages or creating silly situations."
From my previous thread:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=112876#post112876 |
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[Veteran_Kovak Therim]
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Posted - 2012.06.11 05:27:00 -
[41] - Quote
Commsnipes16 wrote:You don't want this turning into HALO though with their extremely ridiculous jumps
Absolutely not, but a little jump assist for a guy using a heavy suit would be nice. Hell, maybe make a prototype heavy suit with that built in for a big price.
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[Veteran_Cantus]
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Posted - 2012.06.11 05:36:00 -
[42] - Quote
Um. No.
I don't think the Eve/Dust lore mentioned anything about it. It wouldn't be canon to the story. |
[Veteran_Templar Two]
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Posted - 2012.06.11 08:01:00 -
[43] - Quote
knight dt wrote:As I said about them before: "Jet Packs. Yes, if you let people shoot while flying then that increases the rate of foolish wild gunfire, people doing crazy up/down bunny exploitation things. But what if you couldn't shoot while flying? Also, there is the problem of people getting damaged and then flying away before you can kill them. But what if armor damage prevented flight? Problem of increased mobility being an advantage far above any other speed module attachment. How about limiting fuel to just a few short jumps or one moderate jump? Each of the other suggestions also has drawbacks and flaws that could be discussed. My point is simply that there are ways these could be implemented to increase options (and fun) without giving unfair advantages or creating silly situations." From my previous thread: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=112876#post112876
Ia agree with you: adding options is a noble goal.
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[Veteran_Templar Two]
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Posted - 2012.06.22 11:13:00 -
[44] - Quote
CCP you showed interest in Stealth Claking and I feel that Jetpacks could really be great as well. Are you considering them? |
[Veteran_Fat Axel]
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Posted - 2012.06.22 14:59:00 -
[45] - Quote
Sindavathar Jr wrote:Any of you gents played/read warhammer 40k stuff? Like the space marine jump packs. Basically a super jump with controlled landing =D! I would LOVE to see that since they have the controlled landing in place. And it would be a good anti flyer class. Jump up close to a flyer and try to plan explosives if its low enough. Then fall back down.
+1 in spacemarine the jump packs where just one big blast of a jump then a more graceful fall to the ground where u aimed for a landing zone. i would like this as long as u cant use it to divebomb into ppl like in warhammer |
[Veteran_Templar Two]
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Posted - 2012.06.23 07:37:00 -
[46] - Quote
Jumpacks a la Space Marine are too much IMO. Also in Space Marine jetpacks are tuned for a specific class, a melee class if I am not mistaken, so they have been designed with that gamepaly in mind. |
[Veteran_ma ho ho]
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Posted - 2012.06.23 08:22:00 -
[47] - Quote
I approve so long as wearing one makes you eligible for scram missile launcher lock. Even if you are not jumping. |
[Veteran_ma ho ho]
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Posted - 2012.06.23 08:23:00 -
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ma ho ho wrote:I approve so long as wearing one makes you eligible for scram missile launcher lock. Even if you are not jumping.
also i want the back pack to blow up if someone shoots it. That is all. |
[Veteran_Templar Two]
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Posted - 2012.06.30 08:23:00 -
[49] - Quote
Any plans for jetpacks CCP? Medics with jetpacks would be invaluable IMO. |
Brann Ereon
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
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Posted - 2012.06.30 09:24:00 -
[50] - Quote
Cool idea but I don't think it fits into the game very well, if at all. I would rather see a small, one or two person gunship style aerial vehicle implemented. Make the one seater quick, lightly armored and lightly armed and it'll probably fit in better than a Halo style cartoon jump jet pack. |
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