Deezy stop trying to force teamplayers to play with randoms in FW. Q-syncers wont allow randoms on their team due to the exact knowledge that randoms are 95% of the times useless. Deezy what you think will happend when a 8+8 q-sync fails? The squad that gets deployed will backout and leave the 8 randoms in the match. Q-syncers will allways keep trying to play with a full team and you will not prevent this. All what you are standing for is trying to throw sand into the gears of war from the coordinated players. It will allways stay like this and that is that q-syncers will never play with randoms and that is a fact you moron.

Matches start 16vs16 if you have a problem that you are getting hit by teamfire or outplayed by teamwork then blame the 6 redline sniping randoms in the redline and not the opposite team for playing the game how it was ment to be played.

Maybe we're the exception rather than the rule, but how about we get the tools in place to let others than the select few get a chance to experience deploying with a full team and see where things land? Not to mention with a full team deploy implementing penalties for leaving matches repeated could even be a possibility since you won't have the issue of squads leave because of a misfired sync.

lol nice to see that you are talking about pub matches while we are discussing FW. But go on and keep acting like a fool. Allmost nobody will backout in FW if it is Q-sync vs q-sync. Actually its something that most players look forward to in FW and that is having a decent match and not just redline sniping 24/7. And personally if i see redline snipers on my team while i loose in FW i go over to their position and headhsot them with a bolt pistol to show them that their behaviour is wrong and needs to be punished.

It would seem that if team deploy were instituted in FW, it would cause solo berries to gravitate towards a corp.

I want competitive gameplay but have no interest in Molden Heath. It's a bloody back water far too close to Minmatar space to use effectively. If I want Low Sec Content I have FW and if I want Null Sec Content I'm welcome in Providence.

However at present it seems that what FW in Dust and EVE are too disparate to reconcile.

EVE side it is a persistant conflict across entire regions of space where organisation and communication between militia groups are required to attack and flip valuable systems and defend held systems.

In Dust it is a series of arbitrary battles on random planets in random systems where progress is barely remembers by the sysetm all of 20 minutes. No one wants to communicate, no one wants to change the status quo, no one wants a real FW system.

Just remove FW's influence on EVE and be done with it. Our FW system is a blight against the efforts for capsuleers who are actually doing something worth while.

Yet there needs to be some means to facilitate large scale player run operations. Especially if agency and locality ever actually come to matter.

To be frank if PIE ever said ' we need X system captured in the next few days' I sure as **** would want to monopolise all contacts in the system with as many organised players as possible simply because random individuals cannot be trusted to perform well enough to support our efforts.

It happened in PC apparently, but it was nowhere near as rampant as you and others elude to.

I honestly can't picture 32 people getting together for something so cheesy, how boring would that be? The PC farming was a few people, I never heard of full teams farming.

Deezy again you fail to realize that this can already be done and the more syncs that are floating around the more difficult trying to control both sides becomes.

I'm sorry but "somewhere down the road" for persistent team deploy isn't acceptable. It also doesn't address that Team Deploy is something specifically desired for Faction Warfare.

Also, if you think just because CCP decides something it's the right course of action I have a bridge to sell you.

Attorney General, if you think the lack of 16 man platoons will stop the current syncs from continuing they you really have no idea what you are talking about.

This is hillarious you do know that there can be a infinite amount of matches and not just one at a time for 1 faction? As soon the 16 man sync gets deployed the game waits till the next match gets filled up in the que and with that creates another match in FW. The possibility that you run into another 16 man team are aswell higher cause the game prefers large squads over small/solo players and with that when both sides que at a similar time its allmost granted that they face each other.

.

Your "drawbacks" in terms of destroying the ability to queue have been shown to be fantasy at best by a mathematician that you actually agreed with.

And if you actually bothered to read you would see that I said that the tools are already in place for team deploy through q-syncing and yet this massive exploiting doesn't exist. So you think everyone will wake up tomorrow and then try to execute exploits that aren't even possible with SP caps in matches, set LP payouts, and the creation of ISK through the destruction of BPOs already haven been addressed?

I'm sorry, but the sky isn't falling. You really should leave the tinfoil and paranoia at home.

Again, Attorney, you show that you have no idea what you are talking about. If someone wanted to queue 32 people at once they could do that right now.

I can run a q-sync right now for hours on end with limited hassle due to my experience with the mechanic. Others are not so lucky. I want MORE syncs running, so our syncs will have stiffer competition and thus better fights.

Rather than talking from an obvious lack of experience you should join me on a q-sync and see how the system currently works. Would team deploy eliminate some of the hassle? Of course. If you think the lack of team deploy stops a dedicated sync, which you try indicate if your own post you probably need to eat some more brain food with your breakfast.

I actually look forward to our sync having more competition and better fights. Only through adversity do we rise above and better ourselves. If you don't think that's the case I just have to feel sorry for you and your small outlook on things.

If you think the lack of team deploy stops a dedicated sync, which you try indicate if your own post you probably need to eat some more brain food with your breakfast.

To the second, please provide a point where I say that limiting team deploy to PC is done to stop q syncs. You can't, because I didn't say it. Stop trying to respond to a point with a different one.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't you the guy behind the Blue Donut?

Actually, if you had any idea what you were talking about you know I've gone out of my way on numerous occasions to shut down exploits, but keep outright lying between your teeth if that makes you feel better.

So rather than trying to attack me as a person do you have anything specific to add regarding the current discussion of introducing team deploy?

Guys, let's keep the talks centered around TD instead of monopolies that either one of us could have gained if our social skills, vision, planning and execution were exceptional.

Its about what's best for the growth of FW. Not the ruthless nature of New Eden

1. If PC-level players want access to team deploy and better fights around the clock, why does that demand have to be met by FW? Why not instead open up around-the-clock raids so PC-level play can be found on demand?

2. What mechanics would prevent the risk-free farming of FW by 32-man q-syncs?

3. Assume a newbro with no in-game connections or knowledge of the Forums wishes to earn an APEX suit through FW participation. To save Isk. Walk me through how he will meet that goal in a FW setting which supports Team Deploy.

4. What mechanics would prevent an oddly shaped block (say 5 players) from queuing for FW and remaining stuck in that queue indefinitely?

5. Why the big rush? What specific downsides are there to test-driving 8-man support first? To quote Kevall Longstride, "I do support full TD in FW but I prefer the iterative approach we have to make sure we don't break something first." Why is Kevall wrong and why shouldn't we iterate?

6. Why should limited developer resources be spent on this alteration of other improvements to the game?

This is situation where I would rather CCP get the numbers on full team deploy first and then walk it back if needed. I'm fairly confident that it would increase the viability of the game mode rather than hinder it.


6.

Dev resources have already been expended. Platoons exists in Planetary Conquest come 1.2 and can be added to FW with essentially no Dev effort.

They are an unfortunate but necessary casualty for the greater good of the community.

I would say have a dev finish off both of these changes while finishing a cup of coffee. I think that'd make for quite a productive cup of joe!

Lol, Attorney. You actually make yourself look like a fool here.

I'm not sure how many different ways I can say it, but let me see if this gets through:

Any syncing that goes on now will continue to go on whether there are 8 man squads or heck even if there were just 4 man fire teams in FW. The lack of team deploy only hurts those that don't know about the mechanic and allows syncs to exist in the environment unmolested by the prevalence of other syncs.

This is about increasing the quality of matches in the game mode. I swear I could make a killing on selling tin foil with just you and deezy.

Team deploy would be a blessing to the vets of the game which most of all wants a no bullshit clean good game outside PC. Anyone who opposses this suggestion is a scrub. Thats a Scientifictional fact.

Nobody is saying they need 16 to win.

I guess it's easy to not grow tired of worthless blueberries when you don't actually play the game you visit the forum for.

Shouldnt FW be more competitive than pubs? People will q sync Fw with or without team deploy, team deploy just makes it easier especially corp a vs corp b.

Wish I could play more solo though, but im just too damn handsome and popular.

The blue donut was required .

Negatives and counters:
Everyone hears the fear for the team stomp.
Counter: This might happen but since it is 16 versus 16 you have to blame yourself. If you are worried the other side is better, you have given up before the fight. Use tactics and learn that not all fights are going to be traditional wins. Read some Tsung Su, "Winning (a battle) is all about defining what is the best outcome and achieving it, this may even be a defeat on your terms." You can learn from defeat and advance beyond your competition.

Teams excluding randoms.
Counter: The fear of excluding is improbable because squad finder is always putting random people together. I use it all the time for FW. Open it up and at any given time there are 8 teams across multiple languages.

I don't want to be in a squad or team.
Counter: That is stating you don't like people in a team based shooter. Sorry, but that is not viable, especially for people on the forums. Learn to get along or go play solo PVE games. This game has people in it.

Please specify your negatives in single sentence outcomes. That will make rebuking or weighting easier.

Uhm, the statement is to improve or change tactics even against steep odds. I FC some PCs and there are many tactics that can be deployed. If a sports team keeps beating your team, then make the next game about losing by less points by focusing defense, then as you improve the losing gap is smaller so you have less of a gap which you can turn into a win with some luck and skill. Stop focusing on the fact that you could win if the other team did not show up! Glory is achieved through victory which requires effort. Without effort there is no glory. You are saying this will be a stomp because I can't beat the other team if there are 16 of them talking. Well you have 16 talking, where is the advantage?

This speaks more to the point that some people refuse to acknowledge they are on a team and want to continually try to kick a goal into their own net. You are seeing the team as a group of stompers. The average player hates these counter productive players as well, I do. Especially when they are trying to turn a stomp. If someone wants to go be an un-useful jerk, why would you build the game around that trolling aspect? That hurts everyone, not just the team stompers. It also hurts the team's moral because they see a group of blue berries pull that move and feel segregated and alone and wish harder for some teamwork. I don't support those trolls, why do you?

Why do you think having 16 guys together makes them unbeatable? I agree this could happen but with the payoff being too low why would that be present. LP is hard to use to fund proto. Where is the driver or profit? - Counter is there is minimal incentive.

I haven't fought Kane but I do hate how a lot of the PC corps used to exploit the situation. They would rather hold hands than fight each other and potentially lose. That is the minority of the population is the truth of the matter.

Qsyncs happen today and no one feels exploited. If Kane gives us issues, lets deal with it then.

Attorney General, I know you don't like me and that's fine. That you would turn personal feelings against me into some sort of grounds to start some tin foil parade against a systems that would help players realize a multi-year dream is hilarious.

Please explain to me in detail how team deploy can be exploited any differently than 4 eight-man squads on coms in a custom channel selecting two opposing factions and syncing?

Also, please explain to me in detail how you perceive these matches would be exploited given that CCP has policies against boosting and 32 players attempting to do so would be red flagged.

Please explain to me in detail how this group would magically bypass the SP thresholds per match CCP has put in place, the 150 clone limit for each side in a match that determines the maximum amount of equipment that can be destroyed, or the progressive reduction in ISK value of BPOs such as LAVs whose destruction CCP tracks and whose value would be reduced further if they detected outliers in the system?

Ok - Firstly, you are very annoying pushing for trolling to be an approved game style just because. That is typical forum troll response. It makes the rest of this very thin, so lets just move on from you approving of that behavior.

You don't seem to want to acknowledge that having a team would make it easier to counter a team, but you don't sound like you understand the value of teamwork with all these posts you are depicted a distinct dislike for being told how to improve in any way.

Back to the point. You want CCP to code the game so that people can't organize to remove any possibility of united gaming of the system. So you want to punish the wicked and the innocent in one motion. Interesting.
So you must dislike qsyncs as well. Even though tons of randoms love them.

As I've said the sole aspect of FW that I am interested in is ensuring that it is a narrative driven persistent conflict that allows people to take it as seriously as they want.

If I want to take the mode seriously I see no reason why I should not be able to. Player determined combat zones somewhat do this as larger groups would ideally convene in the more hotly contested areas while smaller group could finish themselves in less contested area.

Shouldn't a game like Dust be competitive enough that a few groups of 16 couldn't run unchecked in a game mode?

If the potential rewards are so game breaking why aren't more groups willing to go after it? It just doesn't add up to me.

Unlike EVE solo plexing is not possible and it doesn't help in a semi-competitive setting where you are taking up slots other squadded players could be using.

However you cannot segment them. FW systems are not always important all the time. Serious fights would eventuate pretty much whenever a militia says "Oi **** boys go get X System for us, were pushing it in two days."

8v8 could work in FW if we were talking about complex sizing....but ruling out squads from it and demanding it have a place in FW....god no.

When you go solo you take the risk that some random fleet out for blood will pop by and destroy you with incredible ease. That's just how FW is. It's not supposed to be fair, it's not balanced all the time, it requires large scale player participation.

I only brought up rewards and exploits because you started going on about it with your buddy Deezy.

Most of the people that don't want to fight don't leave battles in FW, they just do what most people do in pubs (stay in redline or ignore objectives).

If there is any hope for team play in this game then persistent team play is needed (over 2 years ago).