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Kevall Longstride
DUST University
Ivy League
2
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Posted - 2015.06.29 08:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
I do support full TD in FW but I prefer the iterative approach we have to make sure we don't break something first. It's not a major problem in my eyes as we still have syncing that can be done. But there are other concerns as well with the final introduction of the fireteams, Squad and Platoon that I have which haven't been addressed yet. Namely WP unlock levels for each level of squad size.
A 16 man team will garner enough WP to a full OB in a matter of a couple of minutes, probably quicker. Going against another Platoon is fine, going against two squads with the same WP requirement for OB but less players is frankly stupid.
So first we need to determine a fair and scaled level of WP requirement for each size of 'squad'. For that we need data.
And this is exactly way it's full deploy in PC, Squads in FW and Fireteams in Pubs.
When the data is available then full TD in FW will happen with the correctly scaled OB requirements.
CPM 2 Candidate
CEO of DUST University
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Kevall Longstride
DUST University
Ivy League
2
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Posted - 2015.06.29 09:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
It isn't time to rip off the band aid just yet. We need to get the scaling right on the OB's.
FW OB support is different from other OB's because the Eve pilots get faction LP. Full teams will gain the OB's faster meaning Eve pilots will be getting more LP or rather farming them for Factional Gear for sale in Eve for ISK. A business opportunity that I'm sure hasn't escaped someone's attention.
CPM 2 Candidate
CEO of DUST University
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Kevall Longstride
DUST University
Ivy League
2
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Posted - 2015.06.29 19:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
Actually there are NPC OB still in Faction Warfare costing WP which is what confused me earlier.
They were returned with the reduced WP costs back in Uprising 1.10 I think it was. If you want Platoon deploy in FW these will have to be removed or scaled and I'll explain why.
Say all 32 players in a match are of exact equal skill, with each Merc earning 50 WP a minute. Say for the sake of example that a major laser Warbarge strike costs 1600 WP to activate.
A 16 Man Platoon would earn 1600 WP in two minutes.
A 8 Man Squad would earn it in four minutes.
A 4 Man fire team would earn it in eight minutes.
So if a match is 16 minutes long:
Platoon gets 8 Strikes
Squad Gets 4
Fireteam gets 2
Now if Platoon goes agains another Platoon then we have perfect parity.
A Platoon goes against two squads, both teams get the same number of Strikes but at different times of the match. Not perfect but still fairish.
A platoon goes up against a Squad and a Fireteam with 4 randoms not able to earn a Strike then the Platoon gets 8 strikes to the other sides total of six. Not so fair.
A Platoon goes against a Squad and 8 other randoms then thats 8 Strikes against 4. Not fair at all.
For the sake of fairness A Platoon goes up against four Fireteams Strikes are again equal but the timing of them is not great for the Fireteam based side.
So we have a number of options.
Remove the NPC OB's altogether.
Scale the cost based on the member size of the squad.
Ensure that Platoons face only other Platoons or two Squads and keep Fireteams in a separate queue.
Now personally I'd support the removal of the NPC OB's. But I'd also want it so the team balancing do this:
Platoon V Platoon
Platoon V 2 Squads
2 Squads v 2 Squads
1 Squad + 2 Fireteams v 1 Squad + 2 Fireteams
And finally
randoms placed in matches with no more than two Fireteams on each side.
This would I feel produce the best fights for those larger teams while keeping the randoms and smaller teams away from potential stomping but still having a more challenging match
I don't hold at all with the notion 'This is New Eden, git gud'. We need the NPE to more balanced and ease players into these more difficult modes.
Most new players quit before they even know about Chat Channels, The squad finder and the different level of play in the game. Until the NPE is more explicit in its warnings about the challenges in FW and PC we must allow for those that are new to the game. We can't carry on with the current meta of stomping.
I know we can't legislate for people being A-holes and stomping for fun but we can make easier for new players to deal with these kind of players.
CPM 2 Candidate
CEO of DUST University
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Kevall Longstride
DUST University
Ivy League
2
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Posted - 2015.06.29 19:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:I have to agree with deezy here that NPC strikes largely need to go, but I would suggest keeping the flux strikes due to the high ground camping with links meta.
I'm sorry but without the scaling and/the team set ups I described on the previous page You can have it both ways. The NPC OB's have to go and you'll to instruct the pilot to us eEMP ammo against spam using an OB.
CPM 2 Candidate
CEO of DUST University
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Kevall Longstride
DUST University
Ivy League
2
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Posted - 2015.06.30 08:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
It's always both tragic and highly amusing when emotive issues such as this are discussed on the forums. There are few things as unintentionally funny as nerd rage.
1.2 is already at Sony for approval meaning can't be changed without a later hotfix. So come release FW will be limited to Squads and Fireteams. Like I said it'll take at least a few weeks to create the fix to add Team Deploy so we'll have the data coming from it with the new 1.2 mechanics.
Once we have this data prior to any fix I'd support the addition of full deploy for a comparative study.
I have to say however that I don't think TD will be allowed to stay on because I think any data study will show that its killing FW.
Regardless of the arguments for and against TD in FW the one thing that I'd hope everyone will agree on it that teamwork is OP. A 16 Man team will be better organised. So once we have a couple of them swirling around FW on any given day, whats going to happen is this.
Solo players and smaller squads are just going to start to leave matches when they see a 16 Man team. Quitting is the new black at the moment it seems. These 16 man teams are going to find that they keep playing matches against only a handful of players on the other side. And so it will continue until the opposing faction gets a 16 man team up as well and from that point both teams will always be put against each other.
After a few days it'll dawn to nearly all FW players that it'll be pointless to play FW unless they can get a 16 man team together.
You can make mathematical models as much as you want but none of them will take into account human nature. Very soon after its rolled out 16 v 16 teams will be the defacto standard match up because smaller squads will learn to stay the hell away from FW.
And then the complaining about always playing the same two teams will start....
The upshot is yes, you will get 'good' fights but be prepared to be fighting the same team over and over again.
CPM 2 Candidate
CEO of DUST University
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Kevall Longstride
DUST University
Ivy League
2
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Posted - 2015.06.30 09:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
You can continue the line about us already having full teams as much as you want Kane. But there a psychological difference between going up again two squads of 6 and a four and a squad of 16.
Deploy it by all means.
But I still maintain that after a while they'll be calls for it to be reduced back to squads and Fireteams only for the reasons I specified.
And by the way saying ALL the community when less then 10% even post on the forums has always made an argument weaker in my eyes. You have to always take into account the vast majority that don't come here.
CPM 2 Candidate
CEO of DUST University
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