DUST Search - Goodbye 6 man squad

Piercing Serenity wrote:

Tesfa Alem wrote:

Here's why it doesn't make sense.

Every single argument why 6 man squads are bad for pub skirmish with an isk reward just chucked out the window for pub skirmish with a LP reward.

4 squads are supposed to better than 3 for pubs. So why are 2 squads better than 4 for faction warefare? It's is after all just a pub skirmish with zero barrier of entry, with zero matchmaking and ridiculous long questions times.

It doesn't make sense to assume 4 vs 4 squads would be fan freaking tastic in skirmish, shouldn't 2 vs 2 in the same game be game breaking bad?

If people feel like they have a chance vs 4 in a pub, what in the world is going to make them feel like they have a chance vs 8?

Because lp?

No. Its because: "You signed up for this."

First, you gave a bad description for FW. It is "Skirmish with (a much higher chance) more team coordination that you opt into, presumably knowing what you are getting into". Its not like people just "wander" in FW (Which is why the 'zero barrier of entry' description is a bad one), and if they do, then they shouldn't. FW is for people who choose to play against more organized squads. Pubs do not have that condition, and therefore are fundamentally different

I believe that the changes for Pubs is trying to reduce the compounding negative effect of squads on match quality by making "12 communicating team mates" situations more challenging to create. Because communication between squad and team members in pubs is generally low, squads that have communication have a large advantage. Teams that have communication have even larger advantages. Additionally, larger squad sizes (obviously) cause players who do communicate to group together. So the changes to pubs is designed to make it logistically and statistically less likely for 12 or more people with mics get into the same battle on the same side. To do that after the changes, you would need three squad leader, and you are more likely to be paired against another squad than put on the same side.

In contrast, the changes to FW are designed to make it easier for people who are already communicating to group against other groups that are already communicating. The metrics to judge match quality - i.e. how many orbitals are used - have expanded upper and lower bounds because FW is a less regulated and more competitive space.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Thokk Nightshade Montana Militia 922	Posted - 2015.06.25 00:53:00 - [1] - Quote I know a 4 man Negative Feedback or Nyain San squad is going to be brutal as well, but for some reason it seems like people will like their odds better if they are only facing 4 instead of 6. People may feel there is a chance. Also, 16 / 4 = 4. So , we can have 4 different 4 person squads in 1 match. Instead of a 6/6/4. Doesn't that just make more sense? The current squad limits always seemed wierd to me. Make it evenly divisible. 4/8/16 = pub/FW/PC. Seems logical. Also, the idea of 4 4 person squads on each side for a skirm match would be fan - freaking - tastic. Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
Thokk Nightshade Montana Militia 927	Posted - 2015.06.25 14:35:00 - [2] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Thokk Nightshade wrote: I know a 4 man Negative Feedback or Nyain San squad is going to be brutal as well, but for some reason it seems like people will like their odds better if they are only facing 4 instead of 6. People may feel there is a chance. Also, 16 / 4 = 4. So , we can have 4 different 4 person squads in 1 match. Instead of a 6/6/4. Doesn't that just make more sense? The current squad limits always seemed wierd to me. Make it evenly divisible. 4/8/16 = pub/FW/PC. Seems logical. Also, the idea of 4 4 person squads on each side for a skirm match would be fan - freaking - tastic. Here's why it doesn't make sense. Every single argument why 6 man squads are bad for pub skirmish with an isk reward just chucked out the window for pub skirmish with a LP reward. 4 squads are supposed to better than 3 for pubs. So why are 2 squads better than 4 for faction warefare? It's is after all just a pub skirmish with zero barrier of entry, with zero matchmaking and ridiculous long questions times. It doesn't make sense to assume 4 vs 4 squads would be fan freaking tastic in skirmish, shouldn't 2 vs 2 in the same game be game breaking bad? If people feel like they have a chance vs 4 in a pub, what in the world is going to make them feel like they have a chance vs 8? Because lp? Because 8 is for FW. Natural progression suggests it should have a higher level of difficulty than the Pub matches. I honestly would be in favor of completely removing squads from pub matches but that is too much of a stretch. So, I will take what I can get. Honestly, me and my buddy run 2 man squads and are efficient enough so the 2v2 argument doesn't bother me. I have to say thanks for using logic/reasoning other than the whine/***** we are hearing from most people. Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
Thokk Nightshade Montana Militia 927	Posted - 2015.06.25 18:52:00 - [3] - Quote Piercing Serenity wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: Here's why it doesn't make sense. Every single argument why 6 man squads are bad for pub skirmish with an isk reward just chucked out the window for pub skirmish with a LP reward. 4 squads are supposed to better than 3 for pubs. So why are 2 squads better than 4 for faction warefare? It's is after all just a pub skirmish with zero barrier of entry, with zero matchmaking and ridiculous long questions times. It doesn't make sense to assume 4 vs 4 squads would be fan freaking tastic in skirmish, shouldn't 2 vs 2 in the same game be game breaking bad? If people feel like they have a chance vs 4 in a pub, what in the world is going to make them feel like they have a chance vs 8? Because lp? No. Its because: "You signed up for this." First, you gave a bad description for FW. It is "Skirmish with (a much higher chance) more team coordination that you opt into, presumably knowing what you are getting into". Its not like people just "wander" in FW (Which is why the 'zero barrier of entry' description is a bad one), and if they do, then they shouldn't. FW is for people who choose to play against more organized squads. Pubs do not have that condition, and therefore are fundamentally different I believe that the changes for Pubs is trying to reduce the compounding negative effect of squads on match quality by making "12 communicating team mates" situations more challenging to create. Because communication between squad and team members in pubs is generally low, squads that have communication have a large advantage. Teams that have communication have even larger advantages. Additionally, larger squad sizes (obviously) cause players who do communicate to group together. So the changes to pubs is designed to make it logistically and statistically less likely for 12 or more people with mics get into the same battle on the same side. To do that after the changes, you would need three squad leader, and you are more likely to be paired against another squad than put on the same side. In contrast, the changes to FW are designed to make it easier for people who are already communicating to group against other groups that are already communicating. The metrics to judge match quality - i.e. how many orbitals are used - have expanded upper and lower bounds because FW is a less regulated and more competitive space. Thank you. I was on my phone and didn't want to spend 20 minutes typing a response. Very well ststed. Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.