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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
1
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Posted - 2015.06.24 19:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
Who wants to casually play with friends anyway.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
"I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
1
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Posted - 2015.06.24 20:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:You know squads originally were 4-man, right?
And....?
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
"I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
1
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Posted - 2015.06.24 21:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mina Longstrike wrote:Six man squads were absolutely dominating pub matches. This change is for the better. If you want to grab all of your friends and try to dominate a match, be prepared to start doing it in FW.
If teameork is so op, why not go all the way and ban squads from pubs?
4 man squad will wreck a solo scrub just as quick as a 6 man.
And if you think 6 man squads were dominating pubs, what do you think will happen with 8 man squads in fw? Orbitals are going to be everywhere.
Pubs are still the most acessbile part of dust,and what the most popular. Teamwork will still be op, nerfing the last positive quality of dust. Relatively quick pickup games with groups of friends.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
"I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
1
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Posted - 2015.06.25 06:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
Thokk Nightshade wrote:I know a 4 man Negative Feedback or Nyain San squad is going to be brutal as well, but for some reason it seems like people will like their odds better if they are only facing 4 instead of 6. People may feel there is a chance.
Also, 16 / 4 = 4. So , we can have 4 different 4 person squads in 1 match. Instead of a 6/6/4. Doesn't that just make more sense? The current squad limits always seemed wierd to me. Make it evenly divisible. 4/8/16 = pub/FW/PC. Seems logical.
Also, the idea of 4 4 person squads on each side for a skirm match would be fan - freaking - tastic.
Here's why it doesn't make sense.
Every single argument why 6 man squads are bad for pub skirmish with an isk reward just chucked out the window for pub skirmish with a LP reward.
4 squads are supposed to better than 3 for pubs. So why are 2 squads better than 4 for faction warefare? It's is after all just a pub skirmish with zero barrier of entry, with zero matchmaking and ridiculous long questions times.
It doesn't make sense to assume 4 vs 4 squads would be fan freaking tastic in skirmish, shouldn't 2 vs 2 in the same game be game breaking bad?
If people feel like they have a chance vs 4 in a pub, what in the world is going to make them feel like they have a chance vs 8?
Because lp?
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
"I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
1
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Posted - 2015.06.25 08:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
elric the enchanter wrote:Tesfa Alem wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:You know squads originally were 4-man, right? And....? ....it worked
....so well it was discarded....
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
"I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
1
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Posted - 2015.06.25 19:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
Piercing Serenity wrote:Tesfa Alem wrote:
Here's why it doesn't make sense.
Every single argument why 6 man squads are bad for pub skirmish with an isk reward just chucked out the window for pub skirmish with a LP reward.
4 squads are supposed to better than 3 for pubs. So why are 2 squads better than 4 for faction warefare? It's is after all just a pub skirmish with zero barrier of entry, with zero matchmaking and ridiculous long questions times.
It doesn't make sense to assume 4 vs 4 squads would be fan freaking tastic in skirmish, shouldn't 2 vs 2 in the same game be game breaking bad?
If people feel like they have a chance vs 4 in a pub, what in the world is going to make them feel like they have a chance vs 8?
Because lp?
No. Its because: "You signed up for this." First, you gave a bad description for FW. It is "Skirmish with (a much higher chance) more team coordination that you opt into, presumably knowing what you are getting into". Its not like people just "wander" in FW (Which is why the 'zero barrier of entry' description is a bad one), and if they do, then they shouldn't. FW is for people who choose to play against more organized squads. Pubs do not have that condition, and therefore are fundamentally different I believe that the changes for Pubs is trying to reduce the compounding negative effect of squads on match quality by making "12 communicating team mates" situations more challenging to create. Because communication between squad and team members in pubs is generally low, squads that have communication have a large advantage. Teams that have communication have even larger advantages. Additionally, larger squad sizes (obviously) cause players who do communicate to group together. So the changes to pubs is designed to make it logistically and statistically less likely for 12 or more people with mics get into the same battle on the same side. To do that after the changes, you would need three squad leader, and you are more likely to be paired against another squad than put on the same side. In contrast, the changes to FW are designed to make it easier for people who are already communicating to group against other groups that are already communicating. The metrics to judge match quality - i.e. how many orbitals are used - have expanded upper and lower bounds because FW is a less regulated and more competitive space.
In essences, your argument "fw is expected to be q synced so any reason why 6 man squads are op do not apply." identical gamemode, neither have a barrier of entry, and at least matchmaking is applied in pubs. whether you think faction warfare "should" be restricted to players at a certain level, the fact remains that it isn't.
That same argument applies to pubs. everybody knows that there are squads of six in pub matches, therefore it is to be expected that you may run into groups of six.
I don't know why you talk about the negative effects of 2 groups of twelve, when creating two squads of 16 should amplify those same effects drastically, creating an even bigger barrier to faction warfare for solo or small squads.
here's what I will grant you. It is an attempt to split players up in pubs for Scotty to evenly distribute. supposedly I have yet to see two 6 man squads consistently coordinating he'll, it's impossible to keep a full team together at the end of a match. so much so that people are discussing punitive actions for players quiting early., with our already low player count, asking all casual players to cut their friends out of the loop just gives more people an incentive to leave dust altogether.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
"I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
1
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Posted - 2015.06.26 10:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:@Tesfa
Pubs are meant for everyone, beginner and vet alike. Four man squads in Pubs make matchmaking and team building easier so there are fewer stomps.
FW is taking gameplay up a notch. Its not necessarily meant for beginners. There is no matchmaking or team building in FW.
There needs to be a game mode for new and more casual players to play, hence the changes. Dust doesn't have null, high, and low sec areas like Eve does.
Four man squads will help make pub matches more even, and increase the probability of player retention.
I feel like a lot of disagreement with my point of view is that I want to preserve stomp squads.
The opposite of that is true. But whereas I want it to limited via meta level walkout, others are cutting down one the last remaining qualities of dust for the casual player, the larger than average squad that regardless of skill level sets dust 51 apart from othe r games.
and I'm fine with discussing thepros and cons of squad size size. even though u heartily usage. but when people try to justify why 6 man squads are op for isk matches, but perfectly legit for LP matches the sheer hypocrisy rustles my Jimmies, far beyond just simply my own personal disagreement.
especially the s***t math argument. 16 / 4= 4 so therefore matchmaking will improve. 16 /16 = 1 'so by the same logic says no squads will improve match making.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
"I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
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