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[Veteran_TheAmazing FlyingPig]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 06:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
Grab a rubiks cube. Twist it three times. Now solve it. Simple enough, eh?
Twist it another three times. Now jog and solve it. Pretty simple, eh?
Twist it another three times. Go into a dead sprint, using your entire body to increase your speed. Notice how much you have to use your arms to maintain balance so you don't faceplant. Now solve the cube. Pretty frackin' hard, right?
Now try doing the previous stunt with a lead brick of a cube while sprinting for your life. Didn't think so.
Please stop it with these threads. Reload while running. Sprint when saving yourself. |
[Veteran_Delta-121]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 06:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
Agreed |
[Veteran_Kitt 514]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 06:17:00 -
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+1 |
[Veteran_Sorry Accident]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 07:15:00 -
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That may be the best example you could have come up with to explain to people that physics did indeed say no.
+1 My good sir. |
[Veteran_Zat Earthshatter]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 07:18:00 -
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Sorry Accident wrote:That may be the best example you could have come up with to explain to people that physics did indeed say no.
+1 My good sir. These sprint-load ppl sure sound like the kind that would try to fly a spaceship into its own cargo! +1 |
[Veteran_TheAmazing FlyingPig]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 14:46:00 -
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Throwing this back to page 1 |
[Veteran_Sorry Accident]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 14:48:00 -
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TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote:Throwing this back to page 1 Dirty dirty. Hah. Well, at least it'll be back up there. People need to see this, so they stop complaining, or even better, still complain and we can just refer them back here. :D |
[Veteran_Cantus]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 15:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
You beat me to the punch you bastard.
+1
I understand that DUST mercs are powered by advanced robotics, but a dead sprint consumes too much processing power. |
[Veteran_J'Jor Da'Wg]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 16:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote:Grab a rubiks cube. Twist it three times. Now solve it. Simple enough, eh?
Twist it another three times. Now jog and solve it. Pretty simple, eh?
Twist it another three times. Go into a dead sprint, using your entire body to increase your speed. Notice how much you have to use your arms to maintain balance so you don't faceplant. Now solve the cube. Pretty frackin' hard, right?
Now try doing the previous stunt with a lead brick of a cube while sprinting for your life. Didn't think so.
Please stop it with these threads. Reload while running. Sprint when saving yourself.
Now try doing the third dare while you are wearing power armor with improved mobility, servo-motor articulated joints, and superhuman reflexes with advanced computer chip enhanced neural interface to assist with concentration.
Now go and look up a video of a current day soldier running and reloading at the same time.
Sorry, keyboard warrior. I doubt you did these dares yourself. I myself ACTUALLY WENT OUTSIDE and did this dare to be absolutely sure I could. True, it was difficult and it took a little longer than when I was just sitting and solving the Rubiks cube, but putting a magazine into a gun isn't as hard as you want to believe. My neighbors thought I was an idiot, but I could do it.
So stop making up stupid threads that try to defeat running and reloading. Its not impossible, its not even that hard.
Go up and try it yourself, instead of sitting at your computer and making nonsense challenges. There is no way you can even try to argue for this, it simply MAKES SENSE that a super soldier can reload while running. |
[Veteran_TheAmazing FlyingPig]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 17:15:00 -
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J'Jor Da'Wg wrote:TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote:Grab a rubiks cube. Twist it three times. Now solve it. Simple enough, eh?
Twist it another three times. Now jog and solve it. Pretty simple, eh?
Twist it another three times. Go into a dead sprint, using your entire body to increase your speed. Notice how much you have to use your arms to maintain balance so you don't faceplant. Now solve the cube. Pretty frackin' hard, right?
Now try doing the previous stunt with a lead brick of a cube while sprinting for your life. Didn't think so.
Please stop it with these threads. Reload while running. Sprint when saving yourself. Now try doing the third dare while you are wearing power armor with improved mobility, servo-motor articulated joints, and superhuman reflexes with advanced computer chip enhanced neural interface to assist with concentration. Now go and look up a video of a current day soldier running and reloading at the same time. Sorry, keyboard warrior. I doubt you did these dares yourself. I myself ACTUALLY WENT OUTSIDE and did this dare to be absolutely sure I could. True, it was difficult and it took a little longer than when I was just sitting and solving the Rubiks cube, but putting a magazine into a gun isn't as hard as you want to believe. My neighbors thought I was an idiot, but I could do it. So stop making up stupid threads that try to defeat running and reloading. Its not impossible, its not even that hard. Go up and try it yourself, instead of sitting at your computer and making nonsense challenges. There is no way you can even try to argue for this, it simply MAKES SENSE that a super soldier can reload while running.
I gotta start off by saying that it took a bit longer than I thought before the inevitible first negative post was given in this thread, and I would give you props for it, but you start off with name calling (even though I considermyself a MIGHTY keyboard warrior).
I didn't say that it was impossible. I did say that it makes it harder to perform simple tasks (I figure a supersoldier with a thousand lives of experience would consider reloading simple) while throwing your body into a sprint, and I thank you for confirming this.
If you look at the sprinting animation on these guys, they still lean forward. They still swing their arms. They still (and I need you to brace yourself for this) dedicate their entire body (DESPITE wearing a technologically advanced supersuit) to moving forward.
Let's also look at this from a purely gameplay standpoint, physics and human condition aside. If I decide to roll a scout suit with an assault rifle, speed is already my advantage over an assault suit, which trades speed for survivability and versatility. If I get shot at in my scout suit, I'm most likely going down. What's my advantage? Running of course!
Now, let's further this advantage by giving me the ability to reload while sprinting. I'm getting chased by an assault around a corner. Luckily for me, I can reload and sprint. He empties half of his clip (or magazine, I don't really care what you call them. Bullet-holder-thingy all the same) trying to chase me down. I round the corner, fully loaded and wait a breif second for him to round the corner and mow him down.
Was it his lack of skill to kill me that let me win? Could be. My ability to reload while sprinting definetly gave me an edge when combined with my inherent speed.
Same scenario. I'm getting chased by an assault. Let's also consider the fact that if an assault gets the jump on you, you should already be dead, but let's assume this is a newish player. I decide to reload while running (I differentiate between running and sprinting). I try to round the corner, but he manages to take me out because it took an extra second of fire to actually reach that corner. I, as a scout, was successfully countered by an assault designed for close-mid range combat.
From a purely gameplay standpoint, it would give Scouts an advantage it should not have. If an assault gets up close and mows you down, you were countered. If you pick him off beyond his range, he was countered. Granted this advantage would extend to all classes, but Scouts would use it to its greatest effect. |
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[Veteran_NewOldMan]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 17:32:00 -
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I love this, I too hate those "We need to be able to reload while running" people. So good job. |
[Veteran_Commsnipes16]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 17:32:00 -
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First off, this is a video game. This is not real life so don't try to tell me "the physics are wrong" argument. The developers could just come up with some back statement to make it work.
Also if you watch the reload animation, all they do is release a clip and re-insert another. I just sprinted around with a nerf gun and reloaded the clip fine. I understand that guns like a bolt action sniper rifle would be extremely hard to reload on the run, but an assault rifle should not. Anyways, with such advanced technology, it would make sense that the guns would be crafted to be easy and efficient. Literally all the guy has to do is press the release mechanism, reach for another full clip and insert it into the correct slot. Not too difficult. These are highly trained soldiers and should be able to perform difficult tasks. |
[Veteran_Rhapsodyy]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 17:33:00 -
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TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote:Grab a rubiks cube. Twist it three times. Now solve it. Simple enough, eh?
Twist it another three times. Now jog and solve it. Pretty simple, eh?
Twist it another three times. Go into a dead sprint, using your entire body to increase your speed. Notice how much you have to use your arms to maintain balance so you don't faceplant. Now solve the cube. Pretty frackin' hard, right?
Now try doing the previous stunt with a lead brick of a cube while sprinting for your life. Didn't think so.
Please stop it with these threads. Reload while running. Sprint when saving yourself.
+1
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[Veteran_EnglishSnake]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 17:38:00 -
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TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote:Grab a rubiks cube. Twist it three times. Now solve it. Simple enough, eh?
Twist it another three times. Now jog and solve it. Pretty simple, eh?
Twist it another three times. Go into a dead sprint, using your entire body to increase your speed. Notice how much you have to use your arms to maintain balance so you don't faceplant. Now solve the cube. Pretty frackin' hard, right?
Now try doing the previous stunt with a lead brick of a cube while sprinting for your life. Didn't think so.
Please stop it with these threads. Reload while running. Sprint when saving yourself.
Pure win |
[Veteran_TheAmazing FlyingPig]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 17:55:00 -
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Commsnipes16 wrote:First off, this is a video game. This is not real life so don't try to tell me "the physics are wrong" argument. The developers could just come up with some back statement to make it work.
Also if you watch the reload animation, all they do is release a clip and re-insert another. I just sprinted around with a nerf gun and reloaded the clip fine. I understand that guns like a bolt action sniper rifle would be extremely hard to reload on the run, but an assault rifle should not. Anyways, with such advanced technology, it would make sense that the guns would be crafted to be easy and efficient. Literally all the guy has to do is press the release mechanism, reach for another full clip and insert it into the correct slot. Not too difficult. These are highly trained soldiers and should be able to perform difficult tasks.
I'm going to agree with the first part in that yes, this is a game and not reality, which is why I let reloading while running slide. How often do you see a soldier in combat run away from a firefight, upright, and reload their gun? No, they find cover, hide, and reload (I will concede that it IS possible, just not practical). Being a game, however, we can bend some of the rules of reality and let these biological supersoldiers reload on the run just as efficiently as they do when reloading from stationary cover. Sprinting and running, however, do not coincide.
I am aware of the reload animation and how simple it is. Releasing the clip and smacking another one in there is pretty simple. This is illustrated by my rubiks cube example. Three twists of the cube is pretty frackin' easy to do. Takes maybe a second or two. Doesn't take much thought. Hell, you could do it blindfolded. Practice the three twists a thousand times and you have a general idea of how many times these supersoldiers reload their weapon on a daily basis. They probably go through the motion in their sleep. Maybe even pick up their cat and give him a good scare with his sleeploading. It's engrained in their memories. On the field, I doubt they even think about the gun while reloading it.
No doubt the guns are built using all the technology avaliable to them. The recoil on these things alone is enough to kill the shooter if they weren't wearing their dropsuits. These handheld machines are designed to kill stuff, and they do this task very well.
The machine is not a person, however. It cannot change its ammo to address a new situation. It can't reload itself. The one wielding it must be the one to do this. If it were reloaded via machine, fine. Machines are capable of tasks that humans couldn't dream of doing themselves. Guns, however, rely on a person holding it and controlling it, which adds a variable to the machine. It needs a human medium to operate. Therefore, it is limited by the condition of the human using it. It is difficult to operate this machinery while also trying to sprint away like a bat outta hell.
I still stand firm that you should not reload while sprinting. If this game was truley "realistic", you would suffer a penalty for reloading while running and we'd be having that arguement instead. This is a game, however, and I'm willing to fudge a bit of realism for the sake of gameplay, not throw it out the window.
EDIT: TL;DR - You're lazy. Read my wall o' text. |
[Veteran_Commsnipes16]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 19:29:00 -
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Lol I read it all
And I think what would really fix this is just faster reload speeds in general. Right now it takes 3-4 seconds and it would help if the time was cut in half. People wouldn't have to run away or jump away to reload; could just quickly reload while strafing when in combat. |
[Veteran_TheAmazing FlyingPig]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 19:37:00 -
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Commsnipes16 wrote:Lol I read it all And I think what would really fix this is just faster reload speeds in general. Right now it takes 3-4 seconds and it would help if the time was cut in half. People wouldn't have to run away or jump away to reload; could just quickly reload while strafing when in combat. Actually there are skills that reduce your reload speed. I can't log on right now because the PSN is down, but I believe it's 2-3% per skill level, giving those who are going for the infantry skills an advantage over, say, me, since I'm going for a tank driver. If I hop out, I might be able to put up a fight, but against trained assaults with their reload speed, ammo capacity, and increased damage, I don't stand a chance. |
[Veteran_Traynor Youngs]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 19:40:00 -
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I am in the military.
I have training in moving while shooting.
Reloading is resigned to muscle memory, you do it hundreds of times in a row to make it automatic.
I can do it while in a dead sprint.
HOWEVER
I agree with the OP in that it is HARDER to do when in a dead sprint for your life. In those instances in real life, you either reload slower, or not at all, or you run slower or not at all. If you try to run all out and reload as fast as possible, you are more likely to make a mistake that you won't be able to tell anyone about (cause you'll be dead).
My idea is a compromise.
Make the reload time be 20% longer while sprinting. Make this additional time an automatic addition based on when you start sprinting (so if you start reloading and then start sprinting, it adds 20% of whatever time is left, to your time left). This is the most realistic option IMO.
This way it is not an arbitrary, "thou shalt not" and neither is it an unrealistic "do whatever". This would be more realistic to how it is in real life.
Also, your ability to hold your weapon straight after sprinting should be compromised for a period of time dependent on how much of your stamina you used up (try running a 400 yard all out sprint and then hit a target at 400 yards...), but that is a topic for a different thread.
As to the comment about super soldiers and computer enhanced servos and blah blah, Unless the computer is controlling your body, it doesn't matter, and if it is, then you aren't a soldier, you're a robot and you're in a different game altogether.
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[Veteran_Ely Enkouyami]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 19:51:00 -
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TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote:Grab a rubiks cube. Twist it three times. Now solve it. Simple enough, eh?
Twist it another three times. Now jog and solve it. Pretty simple, eh?
Twist it another three times. Go into a dead sprint, using your entire body to increase your speed. Notice how much you have to use your arms to maintain balance so you don't faceplant. Now solve the cube. Pretty frackin' hard, right?
Now try doing the previous stunt with a lead brick of a cube while sprinting for your life. Didn't think so.
Please stop it with these threads. Reload while running. Sprint when saving yourself. You have failed to notice something crucial. When you so called "sprint" in dust, is your merc using it's hands to balance like it would if it would be truly sprinting? The answer is NO! Thus it is running. It is physicaly possible to reload a weapon like an assault rifle while running, though it is difficult, it is possible. In Dust you play as Immortal super-soldiers. You would think had enough practice and experience to do so. I have rendered your point effectively as of now INVALID. |
[Veteran_TheAmazing FlyingPig]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 20:19:00 -
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Traynor Youngs wrote:I am in the military.
I have training in moving while shooting.
Reloading is resigned to muscle memory, you do it hundreds of times in a row to make it automatic.
I can do it while in a dead sprint.
HOWEVER
I agree with the OP in that it is HARDER to do when in a dead sprint for your life. In those instances in real life, you either reload slower, or not at all, or you run slower or not at all. If you try to run all out and reload as fast as possible, you are more likely to make a mistake that you won't be able to tell anyone about (cause you'll be dead).
My idea is a compromise.
Make the reload time be 20% longer while sprinting. Make this additional time an automatic addition based on when you start sprinting (so if you start reloading and then start sprinting, it adds 20% of whatever time is left, to your time left). This is the most realistic option IMO.
This way it is not an arbitrary, "thou shalt not" and neither is it an unrealistic "do whatever". This would be more realistic to how it is in real life.
Also, your ability to hold your weapon straight after sprinting should be compromised for a period of time dependent on how much of your stamina you used up (try running a 400 yard all out sprint and then hit a target at 400 yards...), but that is a topic for a different thread.
As to the comment about super soldiers and computer enhanced servos and blah blah, Unless the computer is controlling your body, it doesn't matter, and if it is, then you aren't a soldier, you're a robot and you're in a different game altogether.
Now this is a seriously constructive post, and I'm glad you put it here, in addition to your military experience.
I thank you for acknowleding the fact that while possible, it does complicate things to a point where you are hindered when trying to do this, and I find your compromise interesting. I would change it to a higher modifier though, like 50%, and limit it to smaller weapons, like assault rifles, SMG's, and scrambler pistols (I have no military experience myself, but I just can't see someone running around shoving a rocket into a tube). With the higher modifier though, introduce a skill that reduces sprint reload speed by 3% per level (Iunno, "Conditioning"?), so people skilling themselves in infantry would have a slight advantage against those who skill elsewhere (I personally wouldn't put points here, but that's because I'm a tank driver and focus on the relevant skills).
I also like how you brought up just how quickly you can put accurate shots downrange after sprinting a fair distance and most likely out of breath, but as you said, this is a topic for another day. |
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[Veteran_Sindavathar Jr]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 20:48:00 -
[21] - Quote
+1 to OP and +1 to Traynor |
[Veteran_Doctor Spankit]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 22:08:00 -
[22] - Quote
Arguments like these come down to realism vs unreality.
The fact is, that this is definitely in the unreality space. And there is a lot of room for suspension of disbelief. Just look at how CCP has described the soldiers.... they want you to feel like a war god.... running around doing the impossible. Juiced up with no fear of pain or death.
So the whole "what should and should not be possible" argument cannot be taken. Its a waste of time, because at the end of the day, whats really stupid is having the MCC starting all the way back, when it should just land from space on top of the base. No fighting necessary.
-=-=-=- So what does that leave us with?
The only worth while argument for or against anything is the flow of gameplay or playbalance. ask:
Who benefits the most from reloading while sprinting? - in most cases it is the lightweights.
Is this unfair? - not really
If your really sure this is unfair? A compromise without getting things too complicated: - sprinting while reloading makes your sprint bar deplete faster. Done
The more important question: understanding that this game is not based completely on realism... does reloading while running completely ruin the whole flow of the game?
There is a good argument for it. One of which, is if you can sprint while reloading... there is more power in the lonewolf, and less on the team. If reloading isn't a hassle, then you don't need your team to back you up as much. You run in killing... and almost are always dangerous, and never vulnerable. If you have moments of vulnerability.... then you need your team to back you up.
An argument against, is the more debuffs you put on movement, the harder it will be for the average player to just play and have fun. I love how deep the game gets in skills and weaponry, but there has to be a point where you say:
"Lets keep things simple"
While thinking about playbalancing, its very easy to make too many rules. When you need to remember, that one of the most important things that makes a game fun, is that it flows and plays well. Its not a chore to do things... and too many rules and limitations will increase the amount of moments where the player throws the controller down and says: "**** it I'm done for the night"
The only way to strike a balance between the hardcore gamer and casual... is to make it that the casual player can pick up the game and not be frustrated with everything he does... while giving the hardcore player more DEPTH to explore further. |
[Veteran_Doctor Spankit]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 22:12:00 -
[23] - Quote
A side note... from my mag background... there was a lot of really unrealistic parts abotu mag... but one thing that made it fun, was the movement was pretty loose. You can jump off of buildings, jump around, had low amounts of inertia, could spin around and turn on a dime....
A lot of times it was stupid... but it made it easy to jsut keep sinking hours into the game, because you just coasted through the game. You play that game drunk, or half asleep.
One tiny problem I have with dust, which si a reason I like the game... is that I can't really see me playing this game inhebriated... because of the sheer amount of things you need to worry about/think about as you play.
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[Veteran_Sintel Jenner]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 22:24:00 -
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J'Jor Da'Wg wrote: I myself ACTUALLY WENT OUTSIDE and did this dare to be absolutely sure I could. Vid or it didn't happen. |
[Veteran_Ely Enkouyami]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 22:25:00 -
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I agree with the the Traynor and TheAmazingFlyingPig |
[Veteran_Ion]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 22:35:00 -
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You can choose to sprint or run. If you choose to sprint as fast as you can, you loose the ability to shoot, reload, use equipment. Its a choice. What do you want to do, move as fast as you can or reload. You can already reload while "running" just not "Sprinting."
I think I would like to see an Olympic runner reload an AR while running a Gold Metal time. Would be interesting. |
[Veteran_Doctor Spankit]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 22:37:00 -
[27] - Quote
He could if he juiced himself with every known performance enhancing drug in existance, perfected over 1000's of years of scientific experimentation, and then throwing in a computer managed dropsuit.....
Especially when he knows he is only going to live for 5 minutes.
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[Veteran_Orin Fenris]
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Posted - 2012.06.10 01:42:00 -
[28] - Quote
This whole thread is just silly. You're comparing me to my futuristic super soldier in a nano suit?
Well, if I can jump and shoot, or I can jump and reload, then why not sprint and reload? I think if they tack it to a level 5 skill, it won't be as common, and besides, it wouldn't break the game anyway.
But hey, keep circle jerking and acting like you're right. I hate it when people act like the game is fine just the way it is. F it, just release it the way it is. it's perfect CCP. In fact, we should also throw in a 5 second delay between any and all actions. Reload? it forces you to stand still and a giant beam of light to shoot up around you saying "I'M RELOADING! SHOOT ME!" Also, we shouldn't be able to hack CRU's, and you can only take lettered objectives if you first do the hokey pokey, and turn yourself around, then you have to manually hack it using hexadecimal lines of code.
I think all these would make the game so awesomely hardcore, no one could EVER compare it to that "other" FPS because that would be just stupid to have ANYTHING they have! In fact, take out shooting all together! make it a bowling game instead!
Is that what you wanna hear Pig? Instead of making positive changes that improve the flow of the game, you want to keep it all "zomghardquore" so people have to "think before their actions". oh well, I'll probably just get laughed out of this thread, it seems you have a plethora of supporters, so, good on ya. I've seen you in game pig, you're pretty good. it's just a shame such a talent is wasted on such a staunchly conservative personality. :/ |
[Veteran_Debo Galaxy]
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Posted - 2012.06.10 03:17:00 -
[29] - Quote
SO I can't run and reload because of all the reasons posted, but I can jump in the air and reload before hitting the ground. Try solving that cube by jumping once and having it solved before you hit the ground. |
[Veteran_Commsnipes16]
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Posted - 2012.06.10 04:16:00 -
[30] - Quote
I just don't see why people don't want this to happen. What would it really affect? So what if I can sprint and reload? Does it really make a huge difference? I think this will help the flow of the game since it won't just be running to cover every time you need to reload. Realsitic? Yes. Fun? Not really... Now gun fights take forever and people just take pop shots from behind a wall :( |
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