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Posted - 2015.06.24 13:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
Joseph Ridgeson wrote:Jack Boost wrote:Joseph Ridgeson wrote:
My guess is "walk va. Run" / normal movement and fast movement that drains stamina
Walk was mentioned before. Didn't see that. My next guess! Walk is barely pushing the stick. Run is normal speed, stick pushed all the way forward. Sprint is what uses Stamina.
^ I believe this is correct.
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Posted - 2015.06.24 13:55:00 -
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CCP Rattati wrote:Yeah, there are three areas I would want to focus on, which are min and am scouts, light dropsuits and ga/ca assault. To me they are the weakest from a design perspective.
1) we can increase fitting on min scout and buff amplifiers for am scouts
2) buff ehp on light scouts to make them a bit easier to get into
3) fix the AR situation + make the ga bonus better, and change ca bonus to recoil.
With limited tiericide (no slot progression, only PG/CPU), there will be so many new options and chaos, that I think that needs to happen first though.
1) Improvements to AM Scout scan range would restore some of its post-Charlie role, but -- as far as recon goes -- I don't see them competing with GalLogi on account of Falloff, team-shared active scans, and comparative survivability. If we wanted the AM Scout to have a competitive edge, it might not be a bad idea to drop recon altogether and go with an efficacy bonus to biotics.
2) So long as they fit the speed/hp curve, I'd see no problem whatsoever making Basic Lights a 'bit more durable. There are many Scouts who do not use cloak; I think it'd be great to have a suit which better serves these players.
3) In favor of improving GalAssault and CalAssault bonuses. Freely defer to the experts on the specifics.
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Posted - 2015.06.24 14:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote:hehe I'm a scout that doesn't use a cloak but I don't want to use a light frame because other bonuses.
And you're certainly not alone. Many vets don't like it, and newbros can't fit it. But we'd be in conflict with the design of other Basic Frames if Basic Lights were given racial bonuses. Perhaps base stats other than HP would need to be tweaked. What do you think?
Edit: Might be over-thinking this. Could just put basic lights on the speed/hp curve somewhere between Scouts and Logis and see what happens :-)
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Posted - 2015.06.24 14:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:
Sweet. Glad the Gallente/Caldari Assault situation is finally being addressed. Been waiting -soooo- long for both of those suits to be viable ^_^
Are these suits presently not viable?
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Posted - 2015.06.24 15:00:00 -
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CCP Rattati wrote:
2) buff ehp on light scouts to make them a bit easier to get into
Spitballing: Could position Basic Lights above Scouts on the speed/hp curve (less HP, more speed) and give them a native reduction to scan profile (thinking -5dB).
Less complex, less bulky. Built for speed.
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Posted - 2015.06.25 14:49:00 -
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Celus Ivara wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Yeah, there are three areas I would want to focus on, which are min and am scouts, light dropsuits and ga/ca assault. To me they are the weakest from a design perspective.
1) we can increase fitting on min scout and buff amplifiers for am scouts
...
1. I haven't been staring at metrics like you have, but the Min Scout seems like a very good suit as is to me. Given that it's both the best ninja-hacking suit and nova-knifing suit, a buff seems odd. 2. I will say though that the Am Scout super needs some love. 3. The idea that was tossed around a while back of trying to make it the ideal Scout Hunter suit still seems viable to me. 4. No suit easily fills this role right now. 5. How about giving it a massive bonus to Scan Precision and Range, but limit it's ability to share it's TACNET with the Squad. 6. So it can see and hunt very well, but it's not the hyper broken "sit in a corner and AFK scan for the team" we had before.
1. Agreed.
2. Agreed.
3. The idea wasn't just tossed around; it was implemented with HF Charlie. CalScouts specialized in long-range, low-intensity scans. AM Scouts specialized in short-range, high-intensity scans. This was before the falloff mechanics were introduced last December; today, passive scans at range are weaker, and these specializations are less competitive. All suits now have similarly intense inner rings. Outer rings (even when enhanced by EWAR modules) are easily outperformed by active scanners. The only area where an AM Scout might theoretically compete scan-wise would be in middle ring scans; even then, AM Scout passives wouldn't stand out when compared against similarly fit Logi or CalScout. In my estimation, falloff mechanics would have to be overhauled for any recon scout to again function in a meaningful, competitive manner.
4. If you go by kill/spawn efficiency, all suits appear to be scout hunters :-). If you need to scan heavily dampened Scouts, at 15dB a GalLogi + multiple Focused Scanners is your best bet.
5. The passive scans of every unit are shared squad-wide. Last we heard from Rattati, disabling shared squad sight isn't presently tenable. As for a massive buff to precision and range to return a competitive passive recon unit, the buff would indeed have to be massive. We'd effectively be throwing very large percentage bonuses at mechanical limitations (one might argue that'd it'd make more sense to address the mechanical limitations). We should also keep in mind role parity and the potential for overlap; the CalScout's "role" is still theoretically set to long-range, low-intensity scans.
6. Which -- hiding in a corner, uncloaked and undampened at 300HP, while sharing scans with his squad and trying not to die-- is far more problematic balance-wise than a combat-ready 600+HP GalLogi spamming 200m, 90 degree, 21dB scans shared teamwide. 
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Posted - 2015.06.25 16:01:00 -
[7] - Quote
IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote:Celus Ivara wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Yeah, there are three areas I would want to focus on, which are min and am scouts, light dropsuits and ga/ca assault. To me they are the weakest from a design perspective.
1) we can increase fitting on min scout and buff amplifiers for am scouts
...
I haven't been staring at metrics like you have, but the Min Scout seems like a very good suit as is to me. Given that it's both the best ninja-hacking suit and nova-knifing suit, a buff seems odd. Do you use it? on paper those may be the best bonuses for those things, but that doesn't make it a good suit. whilst i may not have as much fun, i am more effective in gal, cal scout or gal, min assault. the knives are hyper situational...but it's also why i love it.
That could very well change if/when wiggling becomes less effective. Can't tell you how many hundreds of times my knives have missed due to a target gyrating in and out of frame. I personally suspect that NK efficiency will increase on account of this change and the changes to assault speeds. Fingers crossed.
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Posted - 2015.06.25 16:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
Phosis Norg wrote:Please don't crucify me for asking this. I thought "strafe" meant moving while firing? However, you mention a "crouch" strafe adjustment to 1. Therefore, since crouching is not moving, I misunderstand what "strafe" is. Please inform me what "strafe" speed is? 
Strafe refers to lateral movement; strafe speed is a function of movement speed. There are different types of movement speeds:
Walk, Crouch, Run, Sprint, "Freewalk" (merc quarter / warbarge?)
At a strafe-crouch multiplier of 1 (100%), your strafe speed while crouched will be exactly the same as your forward movement speed. At a strafe-run multiplier of 0.9 (current), your strafe speed when running (not walking or sprinting) will be 90% of your forward movement speed. At a strafe-run multiplier of 0.7 (future), your strafe speed when running will be 70% of your forward movement speed.
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Posted - 2015.06.25 18:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
Celus Ivara wrote:Very good clarifications of the issues, thank you. :) Of particular note: Yeah, the GalLogi is in a very weird place and throws a very tricky wrench into the discussion. :\ -It's main tool needs to reward better WP. -But the GalLogi providing remote always-on omniscience for the entire team also seems to be pretty broken. - But the GalLogi is also kinda meh at Scout Hunting. 4x Focused Scanners is actually a very difficult thing to use vs Scouts in practice, and you're too slow and too scannable yourself to hunt them down. In the best case GalLogi can be Scout Area Denial, but you lose everything else cool the suit can do (heal, supply team, scan properly for non-scout enemies).
Thanks, Celus! Rearranged a few words above; nothing of substance, just toned it down a 'bit. Somewhat sensitive subject; I remain of the opinion that EWAR-oriented Scouts took a hit which should've been aimed at Assault Lite.
But I digress. What's done is done. Moving forward ...
Passive ranged recon post-falloff is arguably too weak to be considered competitive. Nonetheless, the "recon scout" remains a sound, conceptual archetype; I'm of the opinion that we should restore the archetype rather than retire it. This might be accomplished by (1) merging the two pre-falloff recon functions under a single post-falloff role and (2) then introducing an altogether new role. For example:
Pre-Falloff Scout Archetypes
GA Scout - Infiltration
MN Scout - Hack & Slash
CA Scout - Long-Range, Low-Intensity Recon
AM Scout - Short-Range, High-Intensity Recon
Post-Falloff Scout Archetypes
GA Scout - Infiltration
MN Scout - Hack & Slash
CA Scout - Long-Range, Low-Intensity Recon (non-competitive function)
AM Scout - Short-Range, High-Intensity Recon (non-competitive function)
Proposed Scout Archetypes
GA Scout - Infiltration
MN Scout - Hack & Slash
CA Scout - Counter-Infiltration / Recon
AM Scout - Biotics
Above is my two cents and mine alone. There are, of course, differences of opinion when it comes to which Scout should serve which role, and what those roles should be. Also, not sure exactly how to fit Basic Lights into the mix.
On the GalLogi, I agree with your assessment. Freely defer to Cross on the "how to fix" specifics. Personally thinking:
* Recon Assist (Squadmate) + 20WP
* Recon Assist (Teammate) +10WP
* Then nerf Active Scanners and fix KB/M spinscanning
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Posted - 2015.06.28 14:14:00 -
[10] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:... areas I would want to focus on, which are min and am scouts, light dropsuits ...
Light Frame Ideas
* More HP + Less Speed + Lower Profile than Scouts
* Less HP + More Speed + Lower Profile than Scouts
* Convert to Pilot Dropsuits (equip to activate 'vehicle upgrades' skilltree)
* 1 Primary, 1 Secondary, 2 EQ ---> 2 Primary, 1 EQ
* 1 Primary, 1 Secondary, 2 EQ ---> 3 Secondary, 1 EQ
* +1 Low Slot, -1 EQ
* +1 Low Slot, +PG/CPU
MN Scouts
External factors are more to blame for current inefficiency than issues with the MN Scout itself. Would advise against buffing/rethinking the MN Scout until satisfied with unit movement speeds and the state of EWAR.
AM Scouts
Low AM Scout utilization rates can be explained by the present lack of a meaningful strength. If it is a design goal for passive scans at range to remain weak, I would recommend introducing for it new bonuses (perhaps + efficacy to biotics). If it is not a design goal for passives at range to remain weak, would recommend setting every unit's inner scan ring to a fixed 5m then restoring range extenders from the current +15% to the former +45%.
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Posted - 2015.06.30 23:15:00 -
[11] - Quote
Zan Azikuchi wrote:I didn't see any patch note's, nor skill change's, so negative unless a CCP DEV confirm's, then it hasn't deployed yet.
Protofits has not yet been updated to reflect today's movement changes. Have a look at current in-game fitting summaries for your Assault, Logi or Commando loadouts. Compare them against protofit's pre-patch values. Alternatively, you can take my word for it :-)
GA Assault: 5.00 ---> 4.95
GA Logi: 4.70 ---> 5.05
GA Commando: 4.05 ---> 4.40
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Posted - 2015.07.01 20:43:00 -
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IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Zan Azikuchi wrote:I didn't see any patch note's, nor skill change's, so negative unless a CCP DEV confirm's, then it hasn't deployed yet. Protofits has not yet been updated to reflect today's movement changes. Have a look at current in-game fitting summaries for your Assault, Logi or Commando loadouts. Compare them against protofit's pre-patch values. Alternatively, you can take my word for it :-) GA Assault: 5.00 ---> 4.95 GA Logi: 4.70 ---> 5.05 GA Commando: 4.05 ---> 4.40 Or look at the spreadsheet detailing the changes posted in the OP a week ago :-o
But it is good to see that what's in the spreadsheet made into the game. This isn't always the case :-)
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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