DUST Search - rep tool evolution

DJINN Jecture wrote:

Jenni Welsh wrote:

DJINN Jecture wrote:

ALPHA CLASS elite wrote:

people keep talking about rep tools and how they should add a shield repair tool. the idea is good but could be abused as CCP would say. why not just alter the current rep tool. divide the recovery rate half-and-half. 50% shield and 50% armor.

there is an issue with this though. the rep tool would be less effective. this would mean more reps would be needed to be able to recover as much as it normally would. so, you could improve upon it even more. have some reps do 80% and 20%. possibly racial reppers. gal and amarr would be 80% armor and 20% shield while cal and min would be 20% armor and 80% shield. it would still be less effective.

in the end there would probably be some way to abuse it but my estimate shows that it would require 4 logis and a min heavy.

This is the abusable repair tool and how it was originally deployed in closed beta. This abuse of a tool resulted in unkillable mercs, not having separate tools for shield or armor but rather one that does both. Think about it. If your shield goes up do you take armor damage? Armor fills all the way up whilst taking minor shield damage and you are giving someone an invulnerability shield. This is a broken game situation, not putting a shield repair tool into game, there is nothing broken about one tool for each type of tanking method.

Now the issue of having separate tools is likely strictly an issue of too many options to combine tools, say 2 logi supporting one heavy IE one cal logi with a shield rep, one minmatar with an armor rep and the merc is now unkillable, although the logi would not be would they? Oh wait they are both using the ones that lock 2 targets at once keeping each other up.

IT'S ALREADY BEING ABUSED!!! The number of matches I have been in where the opposing team rolls in with a wave of heavies and 1 repair tool healing two of them in which I can't damage them fast enough to kill anyone is already happening! The only major difference is that with the shield/armor split the suits that are shield heavy or balanced would have an equal chance to do the same, and the armor heavies wouldn't be so damn indestructible with a repair tool behind them (if you ask me the repair tools need to be more bummed down/spread out, they should be something to apply in safety defending a fortified position and not a practical in battle item... nanohives also do this and repair armor again, so why should armor get all the love... armor even has 2x the hp than shields and built in slow repair which shields have none of... AND YOU ARE TRYING TO TELL US THAT GIVING SOMETHING AS SMALL AS A 20hp/sec SHIELD REPAIR TOOL WOULD BREAK THE GAME?!!!!!!!! Stupid...)

No I am telling you I tested the repair tool you are so adamant about wanting, the 1/2 and 1/2 rep tool. It broke the game and took devs about 3 days (if I remember correctly) to realize it and make changes that gave us the tool we have now.

Now about the current rep tool being abused, I have no issue killing under reps, why are you so frustrated about it, use your head and figure it out. Do more damage than they are being repped for to win the engagement. Really not a hard thing to figure out bro.

There is a possible third option though, instead of having the tool give both shield and armor all the time have it switch between

gives armor--->>armor full--->>gives shield-->>shield full--->>unlock


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Jenni Welsh Reincarnation Incorporated 2	Posted - 2015.06.23 00:05:00 - [1] - Quote DJINN Jecture wrote: ALPHA CLASS elite wrote: people keep talking about rep tools and how they should add a shield repair tool. the idea is good but could be abused as CCP would say. why not just alter the current rep tool. divide the recovery rate half-and-half. 50% shield and 50% armor. there is an issue with this though. the rep tool would be less effective. this would mean more reps would be needed to be able to recover as much as it normally would. so, you could improve upon it even more. have some reps do 80% and 20%. possibly racial reppers. gal and amarr would be 80% armor and 20% shield while cal and min would be 20% armor and 80% shield. it would still be less effective. in the end there would probably be some way to abuse it but my estimate shows that it would require 4 logis and a min heavy. This is the abusable repair tool and how it was originally deployed in closed beta. This abuse of a tool resulted in unkillable mercs, not having separate tools for shield or armor but rather one that does both. Think about it. If your shield goes up do you take armor damage? Armor fills all the way up whilst taking minor shield damage and you are giving someone an invulnerability shield. This is a broken game situation, not putting a shield repair tool into game, there is nothing broken about one tool for each type of tanking method. Now the issue of having separate tools is likely strictly an issue of too many options to combine tools, say 2 logi supporting one heavy IE one cal logi with a shield rep, one minmatar with an armor rep and the merc is now unkillable, although the logi would not be would they? Oh wait they are both using the ones that lock 2 targets at once keeping each other up. IT'S ALREADY BEING ABUSED!!! The number of matches I have been in where the opposing team rolls in with a wave of heavies and 1 repair tool healing two of them in which I can't damage them fast enough to kill anyone is already happening! The only major difference is that with the shield/armor split the suits that are shield heavy or balanced would have an equal chance to do the same, and the armor heavies wouldn't be so damn indestructible with a repair tool behind them (if you ask me the repair tools need to be more bummed down/spread out, they should be something to apply in safety defending a fortified position and not a practical in battle item... nanohives also do this and repair armor again, so why should armor get all the love... armor even has 2x the hp than shields and built in slow repair which shields have none of... AND YOU ARE TRYING TO TELL US THAT GIVING SOMETHING AS SMALL AS A 20hp/sec SHIELD REPAIR TOOL WOULD BREAK THE GAME?!!!!!!!! Stupid...)
Jenni Welsh Reincarnation Incorporated 6	Posted - 2015.06.25 07:35:00 - [2] - Quote DJINN Jecture wrote: Jenni Welsh wrote: DJINN Jecture wrote: ALPHA CLASS elite wrote: people keep talking about rep tools and how they should add a shield repair tool. the idea is good but could be abused as CCP would say. why not just alter the current rep tool. divide the recovery rate half-and-half. 50% shield and 50% armor. there is an issue with this though. the rep tool would be less effective. this would mean more reps would be needed to be able to recover as much as it normally would. so, you could improve upon it even more. have some reps do 80% and 20%. possibly racial reppers. gal and amarr would be 80% armor and 20% shield while cal and min would be 20% armor and 80% shield. it would still be less effective. in the end there would probably be some way to abuse it but my estimate shows that it would require 4 logis and a min heavy. This is the abusable repair tool and how it was originally deployed in closed beta. This abuse of a tool resulted in unkillable mercs, not having separate tools for shield or armor but rather one that does both. Think about it. If your shield goes up do you take armor damage? Armor fills all the way up whilst taking minor shield damage and you are giving someone an invulnerability shield. This is a broken game situation, not putting a shield repair tool into game, there is nothing broken about one tool for each type of tanking method. Now the issue of having separate tools is likely strictly an issue of too many options to combine tools, say 2 logi supporting one heavy IE one cal logi with a shield rep, one minmatar with an armor rep and the merc is now unkillable, although the logi would not be would they? Oh wait they are both using the ones that lock 2 targets at once keeping each other up. IT'S ALREADY BEING ABUSED!!! The number of matches I have been in where the opposing team rolls in with a wave of heavies and 1 repair tool healing two of them in which I can't damage them fast enough to kill anyone is already happening! The only major difference is that with the shield/armor split the suits that are shield heavy or balanced would have an equal chance to do the same, and the armor heavies wouldn't be so damn indestructible with a repair tool behind them (if you ask me the repair tools need to be more bummed down/spread out, they should be something to apply in safety defending a fortified position and not a practical in battle item... nanohives also do this and repair armor again, so why should armor get all the love... armor even has 2x the hp than shields and built in slow repair which shields have none of... AND YOU ARE TRYING TO TELL US THAT GIVING SOMETHING AS SMALL AS A 20hp/sec SHIELD REPAIR TOOL WOULD BREAK THE GAME?!!!!!!!! Stupid...) No I am telling you I tested the repair tool you are so adamant about wanting, the 1/2 and 1/2 rep tool. It broke the game and took devs about 3 days (if I remember correctly) to realize it and make changes that gave us the tool we have now. Now about the current rep tool being abused, I have no issue killing under reps, why are you so frustrated about it, use your head and figure it out. Do more damage than they are being repped for to win the engagement. Really not a hard thing to figure out bro. There is a possible third option though, instead of having the tool give both shield and armor all the time have it switch between gives armor--->>armor full--->>gives shield-->>shield full--->>unlock The Problem with this is that 5 or 6 on one is a losing situation for virtually anyone... and truth is most of the times I can get them down to maybe 30-40hp but then I have basically 2 choices, either try for the kill and lose my proto or retreat and start all over again and again while the heavies move further up (this is also especially irritating if you are using laser or assault weapons that damage armor less). As for the repair tool idea, fine (it doesn't have to be the 1/2 or 50/50 split between the two), but the point is shields ARE in general crap compared with armor (if I can steamroll opponents as an Amarr I should be able to do the same with the equal opposite of a Caldari using my shields... and just to get this out of the way I am also saying that I would be willing to have a Cal sentinel that had like 100 or less armor just as long as I can have 1000+ shields that can recharge fast enough I don't have to worry that taking cover for a few seconds will ensure my death)... And before you go saying this is my problem cause I suck, there have been a ton of times in which I was carrying my entire team (and that is why this is so upsetting to me... if I am going to have to carry my team to victory almost entirely by myself and I have the skill to do so then I want to stand a chance and not just get killed every time I try to get a kill because the other side has fully restored armor by the time I have 1/5 of my shields back)... It is still broken... Frankly what I would really like to see is the removal of the repair tools (thus forcing units to be more tactical in general and forcing sentries to be more like sentries and not juggernauts without a care in the world). BTW, I'm not pissed at you... I JUST WANT BALANCED, COMPETITIVE, TACTICAL, EB AND FLOW BATTLES WITH SOME VARIETY!!!!! IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!