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Talos Vagheitan
Ancient Exiles.
1
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Posted - 2015.06.21 06:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
[Reserved] I'm planning to update this post as this idea is more fleshed out. In the mean time, feel free to let me know what you'd like to see with this.
Dust has no campaign mode. But I think we can build the more open-world MMO style FPS this game suggests in the early trailers.
My idea is that the objective of Dust would be to build and maintain your mercenary career, choosing from multiple career paths. Players would run their merc like a business: Building reputation, maintaining a profit, earning achievements, and meeting different goals for each game mode: PUBLIC, FACTIONAL, PLANETARY CONQUEST, and (eventually) PVE. Reputation in each of these would have to be maintained.
Reputation
Players would have an overall Reputation stat. Maintaining W/L, K/D, earning achievements etc. Along with the Overall reputation, players would have separate reputations for Public, Factional, PVE etc. Players can view each other careers.
Achievements (better name TBD)
For each game mode there would be specific objectives to strive for. This is somewhat of a brainstorm. Idea's welcome
Public - This would remain pretty much remain the lobby section. For earning money, and building reputation.
Factional - Building a Factional career would be different. You could go the Loyalist route, or be a true mercenary and fight for all the factions.
The loyalist route would somewhat restrict the progression to the faction you choose to fight.
Rather than endless skirmish matches, I would also like to see periodic Faction Campaigns. A Campaign would last one week, and would consist of various different match types over the course of the entire week. The results of initial battles would effect numerous variables which determine how the rest of the campaign will play out. At the end of the week, one faction would be determined the winner. Top performing players would earn special unique Factional gear, Reputation, special achievements, and other things.
These kinds of things are what keep players playing. A much greater sense of accomplishment.
I'm going to flesh out this idea much more. Feel free to offer up your thoughts in the meantime
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DJINN Jecture
Templar of the Glowing Blade
411
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Posted - 2015.06.21 16:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
As much as you claim this is a way to make the game more of an Open World type game your understanding of what an Open World is has some flaws.
Wikipedia wrote:Open world is a term for video games where a player can move freely through a virtual world and is given considerable freedom in choosing how or when to approach objectives, as opposed to other computer games that have a more linear structure.[1][2] Open world and free-roaming suggest the absence of artificial barriers, in contrast to the invisible walls and loading screens that are common in linear level designs. Generally open world games still enforce many restrictions in the game environment, either because of absolute technical limitations or in-game limitations (such as locked areas) imposed by a game's linearity.[3] Examples of high level of autonomy in computer games can be found in MMORPG or in other games adhering to the "Open world concept". Their main appeal is they provide a simulated reality and allow players to develop their character and its behavior in the direction of their choosing. In these cases, there is often no concrete goal or end to the game. There are limitations to this autonomy through the rules of the simulation and its limitations. But the direction of gameplay may or may not rely ultimately upon the decision of the player, as in some cases this can be completely controllable by the player, the type depends on the requirements and availabilities of the game.[4]
Gameplay and design An open world is a level or game designed as a nonlinear, open areas with many ways to reach an objective.[5] Some games are designed with both traditional and open world levels.[6] An open world facilitates greater exploration than a series of smaller levels,[3] or a level with more linear challenges.[7] Reviewers have judged the quality of an open world based on whether there are interesting ways for the player to interact with the broader level when they ignore their main objective.[7] Some games actually use real settings to model an open world, such as New York City.[8]
A major design challenge is to balance the freedom of an open world with the structure of a dramatic storyline.[9] Since players may perform actions that the game designer did not expect,[10] the game's writers must find creative ways to impose a storyline on the player without interfering with their freedom.[11] As such, games with open worlds will sometimes break the game's story into a series of missions, or have a much simpler storyline altogether.[12] Other games instead offer side-missions to the player that do not disrupt the main storyline.[13] Most open world games make the character a blank slate that players can project their own thoughts onto, although several games such as Landstalker: The Treasures of King Nole offer more character development and dialogue.[3] Writing in 2005, David Braben described the narrative structure of current videogames as "little different to the stories of those Harold Lloyd films of the 1920s", and considered genuinely open-ended stories to be the "Holy Grail we are looking for in fifth generation gaming".[14]
Games with open worlds typically give players infinite lives or continues, although games like Blaster Master force the player to start from the beginning should they die too many times.[3] There is also a risk that players may get lost as they explore an open world; thus designers sometimes try to break the open world into manageable sections.[15]
Please read the rest of the article as it goes into great detail about what Open World games have in them and what they don't. The problem with the current state of Dust as opposed to Open World games is that we have no choices, can't just roam looking for monsters/ai and have lobbies.
CCP for the most part understand how to make Open World games, for example EVE is Open World. It has structure and loading screens but they are minimal and between areas that are not structured and contain players doing a many different types of activities from industry, marketing, pve and pvp as well as trolling. Dust on the other hand has PVP and trolling, with one area for each. MQ is great for trolling btw.
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DJINN Jecture
Templar of the Glowing Blade
411
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Posted - 2015.06.21 16:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
Personally I would love to see Dust move from lobby based shooter (COD) to an Open World (EVE) where anything is possible. I have many posts about this and my alts have post about this too, as it was discussed during closed beta what CCP should focus on first, balance and lobby vs open world and balance.
I think we all (CB players) assumed once balancing was achieved we would see devs move towards building an Open World environment, but as we have seen over the past 4+ years the dev team is having a hard time finishing off the asset tree and getting balance often getting sidelined by performance issues and adding other things like that drunken scotty ai matchmaker that can't seem to figure out how to balance teams.
As I posted earlier, that wiki article about Open World is a recommendation of my own on what we need to make the game more Open World. Its simple, doesn't even need a gimmick like reputation to make it work. It just will. Ultimately though this is likely only going to be possible on a PC with a much more robust architecture than an outdated/POS PS3.
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Talos Vagheitan
Ancient Exiles.
1
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Posted - 2015.06.22 03:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
DJINN Jecture wrote:As much as you claim this is a way to make the game more of an Open World type game your understanding of what an Open World is has some flaws.
Thanks for the comment. I have to point out though that Wikipedia is not the authority on what an open-world has to be.
Just because you can't free roam on planets "looking for monsters" doesn't mean a game isn't open world. Dust's primary role is, and should always be as an FPS. Open-world in Dust could simply mean choosing to fight different battles, in different places, for different factions, and that the results of these battles would effect the overall big picture.
In short: The term 'Open World' isn't a cookie cutter definition that works exactly the same in every game just because Wikipedia has an article on it.
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KalOfTheRathi
Nec Tributis
1
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Posted - 2015.06.22 03:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
Talos Vagheitan wrote:Thanks for the comment. I have to point out though that Wikipedia is not the authority on what an open-world has to be. Sadly you are not the authority either.
Regardless of your source I would suggest that Open World requires something beyond more than one lobby that Dust can claim (pubs, FW, PC).
We had many suggestions (thought they were promises but ... sadly not) from CCP regarding PvE. Now player vs environment, with little AI turrets or bots chasing your butt down and killing you with sharp items might be fun. But, we have no PvE. Nor will we.
Project Silence (aka Legion) was supposed to get the PvE solution that we Dust Mercs were all waiting for. Maybe you should post in the Project Legion section of the forum.
From a Dust514 standpoint, we do have careers. Get into a Corp and run PC battles. The career is built into that mode of game play. Which is not something that I am all that interested in, but some do. While waiting for PC battles spend your time in FW, fighting the good fight for/against the EVE factions.
Good Luck.
My favorite tank is a Lightning. Just sayin.
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Heimdallr69
Negative-Feedback.
5
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Posted - 2015.06.22 04:28:00 -
[6] - Quote
My career started in Imperfects was an OG...my career ended in Nyain San Quit dust before PC came out Imps were gone when I came back so I eventually did some soul searching and found Nyain San where I completely loved it and felt at home but then they moved on so I returned to NF to retire as well..
Yeah yeah I know I just wanted my short story out there
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DJINN Jecture
Templar of the Glowing Blade
412
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Posted - 2015.06.22 19:09:00 -
[7] - Quote
Talos Vagheitan wrote:DJINN Jecture wrote:As much as you claim this is a way to make the game more of an Open World type game your understanding of what an Open World is has some flaws.
Thanks for the comment. I have to point out though that Wikipedia is not the authority on what an open-world has to be. Just because you can't free roam on planets "looking for monsters" doesn't mean a game isn't open world. Dust's primary role is, and should always be as an FPS. Open-world in Dust could simply mean choosing to fight different battles, in different places, for different factions, and that the results of these battles would effect the overall big picture. In short: The term 'Open World' isn't a cookie cutter definition that works exactly the same in every game just because Wikipedia has an article on it. In this I would say you are wrong, we have no choice in battles we join, it's the drunken Scotty AI that picks for us FW or not, and yeah I agree wikipedia is not at all necessarily the expert definition but it has a very good explanation of what Open World is, and what Dust is comes nowhere close to any of it.
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DJINN Jecture
Templar of the Glowing Blade
412
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Posted - 2015.06.22 19:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
I have actually made no less than 3 threads about making Dust Open World since Open Beta was launched, garnering marginal attention and much argument mostly for ex-COD players who don't understand what an Open World is. Nothing against COD or BF or any of the Lobby shooter games (I got my start on Quake, Unreal Tournament and Duke Nukem 3d oh yeah and Wolfenstein 3d, played COD:BOP2, BF3) but the devs with their EVE experience making a full fledged Open World should consider focusing on making a similar way of interacting with New Eden for Dust Mercenaries.
A good start for this would be a way to deploy to any planet in New Eden via spaceship and merc launcher to the planet's surface and go hunting AI of some sort. Along with this there would be the ability to find mercs on the planet's surface and go PK them. There are plenty of easy options here for Open World but this should be pretty basic for any situation where we are going to claim that Dust is indeed that Open World game.
For references about other games that are Open World architecture see:
This is just the tip of the iceberg Talos, please be mindful of the fact that just because wikipedia is not the hard fast definition of something, it does have a good definition, one supported by many supporting opinions on the matter.
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Talos Vagheitan
Ancient Exiles.
1
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Posted - 2015.06.23 04:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
DJINN Jecture wrote:I have actually made no less than 3 threads about making Dust Open World since Open Beta was launched, garnering marginal attention and much argument mostly from ex-COD players who don't understand what an Open World is. Nothing against COD or BF or any of the Lobby shooter games (I got my start on Quake, Unreal Tournament and Duke Nukem 3d oh yeah and Wolfenstein 3d, played COD:BOP2, BF3) but the devs with their EVE experience making a full fledged Open World should consider focusing on making a similar way of interacting with New Eden for Dust Mercenaries. A good start for this would be a way to deploy to any planet in New Eden via spaceship and merc launcher to the planet's surface and go hunting AI of some sort. Along with this there would be the ability to find mercs on the planet's surface and go PK them. There are plenty of easy options here for Open World but this should be pretty basic for any situation where we are going to claim that Dust is indeed that Open World game. For references about other games that are Open World architecture see: This is just the tip of the iceberg Talos, please be mindful of the fact that even though wikipedia is not the hard fast definition of something, it does have a good definition, one supported by many supporting opinions on the matter.
I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing a lot of coherence in your posts... some of your paragraphs suggest you are agreeing and disagreeing with me at the same time. Maybe you can elaborate a bit more.
Some specifics would be nice: Such as what exactly is it you are suggesting, and what exactly do you disagree with?
A lot of your paragraphs seem to be pointing out different reasons why dust is currently 'not' Open World... which I agree with, and which was the entire point of this post, and why I suggested things in the OP to help give the player different choices.
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DJINN Jecture
Templar of the Glowing Blade
412
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Posted - 2015.06.23 07:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
Talos Vagheitan wrote:DJINN Jecture wrote:I have actually made no less than 3 threads about making Dust Open World since Open Beta was launched, garnering marginal attention and much argument mostly from ex-COD players who don't understand what an Open World is. Nothing against COD or BF or any of the Lobby shooter games (I got my start on Quake, Unreal Tournament and Duke Nukem 3d oh yeah and Wolfenstein 3d, played COD:BOP2, BF3) but the devs with their EVE experience making a full fledged Open World should consider focusing on making a similar way of interacting with New Eden for Dust Mercenaries. A good start for this would be a way to deploy to any planet in New Eden via spaceship and merc launcher to the planet's surface and go hunting AI of some sort. Along with this there would be the ability to find mercs on the planet's surface and go PK them. There are plenty of easy options here for Open World but this should be pretty basic for any situation where we are going to claim that Dust is indeed that Open World game. For references about other games that are Open World architecture see: This is just the tip of the iceberg Talos, please be mindful of the fact that even though wikipedia is not the hard fast definition of something, it does have a good definition, one supported by many supporting opinions on the matter. I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing a lot of coherence in your posts... some of your paragraphs suggest you are agreeing and disagreeing with me at the same time. Maybe you can elaborate a bit more. Some specifics would be nice: Such as what exactly is it you are suggesting, and what exactly do you disagree with? A lot of your paragraphs seem to be pointing out different reasons why dust is currently 'not' Open World... which I agree with, and which was the entire point of this post, and why I suggested things in the OP to help give the player different choices. What I am saying by adding all these post is yes there are plenty of ways to add open world features and keep the lobby, but the lobby has to go to make this game an Open World game. Its not at all optional. That said, the MQ is essentially a station quarters, same as what pilots use, and not at all an issue to be a location to be able to get back to. Although I feel that the progression of a merc career and how it is approached has nothing to do with what needs changing to make the game Open World as it already allows for a great deal of choice in who we associate with and how we develop character skills and even how we role-play our characters.
The career of a merc is already very Open World esq but the game is lacking in many other areas including but not limited to how we get into fights/battles and how we make isk. Some changes as outlined in many of the posts I have made here describe various options as well as other games to look at to get ideas on what plays in an Open World situation.
God I really hate doing this in such a "fanboy" type way but if you have ever played Eve I think you would understand more why I say CCP knows how to make open world work. If I want to get into a fight in Eve I need to go look for one. It can be a full time job looking for a fight or it can land on your lap at a moment's notice and depending on where you are and what you are doing can influence this greatly.
For instance if you were to say be a freighter pilot and because you were in high sec and needed to take a bio break you set your ship on auto-pilot, slowly floating the 13km from the warp to location of landing at a gate to the next system and approaching in an unwieldy and slow ship you coast closer and closer to the gate, all of a sudden (in Uedama/Sivala) someone opens a convo with you and indicates "you are in violation of the New Halaima code of conduct, pay up or be destroyed", meanwhile in real life you are wiping your nether regions and cannot see your screen, having faith in Concord to protect you as you are doing your paperwork, and upon returning to your chair you realize your faith was misplaced.
Concord has failed you and you are sitting in your Pod back at your home station, minus of course all 10bil worth of assets you were moving for your corp so they could start a new life in a new mission hub (so much for the 5 marauders + fits) and now you are left with a bad taste in your mouth. You decide its time to go on a bit of a rampage so back into Uedama you fly in your PVP fit Dramiel (300mil). Behind you your corp is coming too all in very expensive PVP frigates to avenge the loss of a freighter full of cargo that should have been carefully guarded by the pilot, so wardec in hand you take the fight back to the pirates who blew the ship up, and lose all the frigs in a tremendous firefight full of kills on both sides and good fun for all involved at least until the final death tally is added up by your corp, realizing that losing 10+bil in a freighter and then another bil or so on frigs fighting the pirates.
So instead of continuing the wardec your corp concedes and goes back to making isk to replace the losses, farming as a team they eventually do and decide it's time to go look for a fight in lowsec. Off they fly in a fleet of HACS down to molden heath where they encounter many other pirates to fight....
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DJINN Jecture
Templar of the Glowing Blade
412
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Posted - 2015.06.23 08:12:00 -
[11] - Quote
Bottom line basic mechanics like Merc movement through space via some method needs to come into game. Choice of location needs to be an option, as does an open market, contracting, and a real attempt at merging Dust interactions with New Eden Pilots interactions. This could be anything and everything from joint PVE missions with Pilots to joint PVP ops with pilots, and rewards on both sides not just one or another. Giving the game credibility to Pilots and drawing in the Open World enthusiasts from games like DayZ, PS2 and other top notch games as well as Eve Pilots. Oh and the Lobby has to go.
I myself have come to the point where investing overmuch time in Dust on my PS3 has become a chore because I have fought hundreds of thousands of battles over the last 4 years both in game and here on the forums and all have ended with either a victory or defeat screen that I am so tired of seeing. So I play EVE and watch as Dust evolves hoping for a day when I feel ready to come back to something that has some meaning or even something different to explore.
If you want to discuss this more feel free to email me at [email protected] and I would be glad to exchange emails as the frequency I come even to the forums is diminishing.
Hell if you would rather hop on comms email me a channel to join and I'll chat there or maybe skype, although TS3 would be preferred, maybe you could come chat on our Teamspeak server.
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Talos Vagheitan
Ancient Exiles.
2
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Posted - 2015.07.29 21:47:00 -
[12] - Quote
Updated
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