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TIMMY DAVIS
Krusual Covert Operators
Minmatar Republic
128
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Posted - 2015.06.21 02:57:00 -
[1] - Quote
Good Day,
Caldari, High slot users and Shield users in General want some sort of change to the the way shields work or some kind of shield rep tool.
I read one thread that suggested changing shields to essentially a clone of Armor. Reduce the delay times to nothing or cut them drastically, reduce the recharge rate, add a Ferroscale Shield module and add a Reactive Shield Module.
Yeah, this could all work, but changes how the game works.
This is not a bad idea, I just don't think they are going to do this.
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Now if you have a Rep Tool or some sort of device that cuts the delay times this might fly.
So something like cutting the Delay times by 20% and once the shields start charging you the Rep Tool user, get say +40 WP. For Advanced bump it up to 30% and the WP to +60. Proto bump it up to 40% and you get +80 WP. So you got to stick around for a few seconds.
Now if you stay hooked up to the person until they are fully reloaded you get an additional WP payment. Maybe 15 or 25 WP per 100 EHP, or you get it along the way for each 100. Shield recharge rates are 20-30 for Assaults 15-30 for basic Heavies, etc.
So you get a large bump once the repairs start and a slower bump as the shields repair themselves.
The point of sticking around should be rewarded, not just part of the deal.
So I propose that the tool also increases the rate a bit as well, 5 EHP for Milita and Basic, 10 EHP for advanced and 15 EHP for Proto. Or you could use percents, 10% M and B, 15% Adv, 25% for Proto and some sort of +1% per level.
I mean if you have 600 shields on a Caldari Heavy, it repairs at 30 EHP/sec You got to sit there for 20 seconds. So increase the rate by 15 EHP for a Proto item and you increase the rate to 45. 600 / 45 to 13.333 seconds.
In game time that is a lot.
Now will CCP, do this. I don't know. I hope they think about it.
Thanks fore reading this. |
Lynn Beck
Delta Vanguard 6
2
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Posted - 2015.06.21 05:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
A basic Armor Repair tool reps at what, 45? That's about 3x what a "typical" armor focused fit equips, and at worst is still -equal- to a pure rep based fit.
These Shield tools i would advise every person i train to stay away from and only poke with for fun, not for being genuinely serious.
Make it grant a serious boost to rep rates -and- a hefty decrease in shield delays and only then would i see it being used over armor in any circumstance, ever.
E.G. 90% Shield Recharge at STD, with -45% Recharge Delays(both or 60% Depleted only)
105% Recharge, 55% (or 70% Depleted)
120% Recharge, 65% (or 80% depleted)
In these circumstances you have a serious reasoning to actually use one over just fitting for solo and telling your shield based(and probably bonused as well) logi to put the f*cking thing down and help you shoot.
Edit: I do see that your proposal would boost a caldari heavy's regen by 50%, but that's still nothing compared to simply providing cover fire for him or just telling the heavy to fit for regen rather than full tank, it's not like Proto Extenders even do anything for how much they cost anyways.
General John Ripper
-BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse.
This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation'
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Bright Cloud
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.06.21 18:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
Nope shield tools should just add a constant regen like armor reps otherwise they are useless and nobody would use them. Cause in the end of the day you still have to fight that 1300 armor HP heavy that is backed up with a minlogi and a reptool.
Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
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TIMMY DAVIS
Krusual Covert Operators
Minmatar Republic
130
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Posted - 2015.06.21 19:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
Good Day,
I'm not saying my numbers as originally listed are set in stone. They can certainly be tweaked.
Armor repairs at 2.5-5.0 per sec depending on the suit. ( I might have missed one at either end of the spectrum.) Shields repair at 15-30 per sec - but after a delay. The shield repair rate is over 4 times that of armor.
The rep tool repair rates are from 50 - 100 (approx) per sec.
So shield rep tools should be comparably?
So if you tweak the numbers in my original suggestion from 10% to 50% (M and B) and 20% to 100% (Adv) and 30% to 150% (Pro), A Caldari heavy would have a shield repair rate of 30 + 45 or 75 per sec with a proto shield rep tool. Not as high as armor repair rates but in the ball park. Add 5 or 10% say per level and you're getting there.
At 10% per level this would make a Caldari Heavy have a repair rate of 90 Shield HP per sec.
Use the same numbers to decrease the delay time or eliminate the delays with this tool and you have something that works.
Thanks for reading this, |
Apocalyptic Destroyerr
Shining Flame
Amarr Empire
360
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Posted - 2015.06.21 21:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
No. They don't need a damn Shield Repair Tool for the damn 60th time ! It would be way to over powered no matter how you implement it.
They need a damn Shield Booster Tool ! Start thinking about that, yes ? A Handheld Shield Booster like for vehicles but now for Dropsuits. Only I keep making those threads with numbers and get no support from you stupid Shield users ! Booster Tool > Repair Tool. |
Songs of Seraphim
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
1
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Posted - 2015.06.21 21:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
Apocalyptic Destroyerr wrote:No. They don't need a damn Shield Repair Tool for the damn 60th time ! It would be way to over powered no matter how you implement it.
They need a damn Shield Booster Tool ! Start thinking about that, yes ? A Handheld Shield Booster like for vehicles but now for Dropsuits. Only I keep making those threads with numbers and get no support from you stupid Shield users ! Booster Tool > Repair Tool.
I agree.
The Shield Repair Tool is an idiotic idea. No true Caldarian would want to be someone's b*tch with a leash.
A Shield Booster or Shield Bubble would be more in line with shield doctrine. Something that's deploy-able, but timed and infinite uses with an area of effect.
Achura Bloodline
Loyalist of the State
Join Caldari FW
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TIMMY DAVIS
Krusual Covert Operators
Minmatar Republic
130
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Posted - 2015.06.22 02:05:00 -
[7] - Quote
Apocalyptic Destroyerr wrote:No. They don't need a damn Shield Repair Tool for the damn 60th time ! It would be way to over powered no matter how you implement it.
They need a damn Shield Booster Tool ! Start thinking about that, yes ? A Handheld Shield Booster like for vehicles but now for Dropsuits. Only I keep making those threads with numbers and get no support from you stupid Shield users ! Booster Tool > Repair Tool.
Thank you for your opinion.
I'm neither stupid nor a shield user. Please refrain from name calling. You don't convince anybody of your point by doing so.
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I do watch the game, and armor is harder to get through than shields. If you have run a heavy with 500 shield and 300 armor and a heavy with 300 armor and 500 shield with the same player and the same team in similar circumstances the 500 armor heavy will last longer. Throw in a player with a someone repping both of them and the 500 armor player will last a lot longer.
In the games I play and watch Amarr Assaults tend to do better than Caldari Assaults, (even Amarr w/ Scramblers / Lasers or not.) They just do. Main difference seems to be shield vs armor. Now the base Amarr suits have a higher percentage of Armor to begin with, so the analogy is not perfect, but analogies rarely are.
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Now it's quite possible this would make some fittings OP.
But more so than some current Armor imbalanced Sentienels with repping squad mates. Lets try it and see.
Thanks for reading this. |
Bright Cloud
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.06.22 20:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
Apocalyptic Destroyerr wrote:No. They don't need a damn Shield Repair Tool for the damn 60th time ! It would be way to over powered no matter how you implement it.
They need a damn Shield Booster Tool ! Start thinking about that, yes ? A Handheld Shield Booster like for vehicles but now for Dropsuits. Only I keep making those threads with numbers and get no support from you stupid Shield users ! Booster Tool > Repair Tool.
No we stick with established and working ideas and dont throw out stupid crap. And we all know that shield boosting doesnt work as you can see with shield tanks where when they take a tiny bit of damage the booster fails to work.
Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
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Imp Smash
Molon Labe.
RUST415
868
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Posted - 2015.06.23 05:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
There is nothing anymore stupid about making a shield rep tool than there was when armor rep tools were coded. They would not be any more overpowered than an armor rep tool as they would function the same way and in the same situations. These cries of 'shield rep tool OP' are what is actually ridiculous. Explanation how shield rep tool would somehow magically be stronger than armor rep tool -- still waiting for that one... |
TIMMY DAVIS
Krusual Covert Operators
Minmatar Republic
130
|
Posted - 2015.06.24 00:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
Good Day,
Come one guys.
I do appreciate the support, I'm not opposed to opposition. Opposition can makes ideas better and reveal flaws and can be truly useful.
Avoid the word stupid. It's name calling. It doesn't forward the conversation. People get mad or stop trying to convince and dig in their heels.
The goal of the forum is convince folks to change the game in such and such a way. Here is my reasoning.
Try to do that please.
Thanks for reading this. |
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Sicerly Yaw
Quantum times
357
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Posted - 2015.06.25 05:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
since shield thresholds are being introduced I suggest this, shield rep tools increase the threshold by a hefty amount 6 hp is the threshold that will be introduced I don't know if this will be per second or static I hope its per second but who knows
the rep tool would increase this threshold to that of the armor rep tools 40 hp at std 60 at adv 70 at proto and so on and so forth
this means that if that threshold is not broken/second that shields would keep on repairing themselves as if not taking any damage I might suggest to increase the threshold significantly but the fact of the matter is that shield suits seem to not be made for CQC, the threshold even when that high would not do anything in close quarters as just about any weapon can do over 300 damage per second even at range this would not make much of a difference
so what I suggest is to introduce this but just to test it out and adjust the numbers accordingly
I say that a shield heavy should be able to sustain damage at distances of 45m or greater
this means that the threshold would have to be closer to 300-450 damage as many weapons can easily achieve that amount of damage the ScR would still be a problem as it would go beyond that amount but this may still work after the nerf that is supposed to come a charged shot would still overcome this as it should but anything less in theory would not make the shiled heavy have to wait for the delay. this threshold would work against single targets and possibly multiple targets at range, but to be able to go toe to toe with multiple targets the threshold would need to be increased even more but at this point the numbers are overwhelming and without proper testing this could easily become OP although it all depends on what ranges the shield heavy is intended for if the armor heavy is meant for CQC then the Shield heavy would probably be meant for long range
this tool should also cut down on the delay by about 25% at std 35% at adv and 45% at proto
a tool as such would not be able to be abused by armor tankers as their shield regen is poor and in CQC they will easily take over 300 damage per second or more if multiple people are shooting at it or if damage mods are being used
if a shield tool were to be implemented I suggest this to be it, but there are other ways to have a working shield tool so I suggest for a DEV led discussion to be made perhaps with CPM involved but I believe this idea is simple enough to work and not be able to be exploited other then perhaps multiple shield tools being used on the same heavy but similar results can be achieved by multiple armor rep tools on armor rep heavies, since the heavy would only be reping shields at their own rate they would still be able to be taken down by high amounts of alpha damage or multiple people shooting at the target, making it a fair ground between shield rep tools and armor rep tools
https://dust514.com/recruit/kWK05m/
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Jenni Welsh
Reincarnation Incorporated
6
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Posted - 2015.06.25 07:59:00 -
[12] - Quote
Songs of Seraphim wrote:Apocalyptic Destroyerr wrote:No. They don't need a damn Shield Repair Tool for the damn 60th time ! It would be way to over powered no matter how you implement it.
They need a damn Shield Booster Tool ! Start thinking about that, yes ? A Handheld Shield Booster like for vehicles but now for Dropsuits. Only I keep making those threads with numbers and get no support from you stupid Shield users ! Booster Tool > Repair Tool. I agree. The Shield Repair Tool is an idiotic idea. No true Caldarian would want to be someone's b*tch with a leash. A Shield Booster or Shield Bubble would be more in line with shield doctrine. Something that's deploy-able, but timed and infinite uses with an area of effect.
Or a nanohive for shields instead of armor... The point is I don't care how it is done, ultimately every armor heavy suit I have ever had regenerates all it's armor in practice about 2-5 times the speed of my best defensive shield heavy unit... And why are shield heavy units penalized their effectiveness and armor heavies aren't (just max biotic upgrades and a 5x complex reactive plate amarr assault has a natural armor repair of about 20hp/s even under fire plus the nanohives, no speed penalty, and about the default armor of a commando plus the benefit of all the high slots... but shield heavies can't heal under fire any possible way, a single flux grenade can deplete you completely regardless of what you have for shields so taking cover under fire is kinda useless, and there are no skills to offset the penalty to shield recharge rate/delay/capacity like there is for armor)... I mean how is that even remotely balanced?!!!
I am still trying to make a good shield unit, but all that being said right now all my best shield units use default shields and armor modules... I want a good shield only unit sooooooooo bad. :( |
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