DUST Search - Petition for old maps and skirmish 1.0

Leither Yiltron wrote:

Scheneighnay McBob wrote:

Maken Tosch wrote:

Leither Yiltron wrote:

I don't think that was really the reason that the game mode was removed. At worst that was a drastic implementation mistake with a relatively easy solution. We've learned that Skirm 1.0 used a dirty hack to get the MCC to move in the first place. The mode was completely abandoned for a redesign. I suspect that they decided that Skirmish 1.0 was consuming too many resources, and correspondingly wouldn't ever be frenetic enough for the "audience" they were trying to find without additional in-battle player count. Adding players, of course, has never really happened in Dust's history.

A hack to get the MCC to move? But it was already moving at the start of the match. That was it's intended design.

I believe what they meant by "hack" was that CCP minmatar-rigged it to work.

That's correct. I've heard the explanation that within the game engine, the MCC was placed on an entire map layer with 0 opacity, and that the map layer on which the players played moved underneath the MCC layer. In any case, we've been told repeatedly that Skirmish 1.0 would have to be rebuilt from the ground up, including the maps, because of the original implementation's oddities.

At its core it's something to hope for, and I think a lot of people have it on their list. But it's probably not the top priority long-term, high-resource-budget thing to be fixed.

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JARREL THOMAS Dead Man's Game 703	Posted - 2015.06.18 00:27:00 - [1] - Quote This picture inspired me while it may not have even existed as far as I know, it does bring to mind all of those older maps that they removed or turned into a poop version of it (Manus peak). And of course skirmish 1.0 was hella better than this crappy skirmish... and acquisition... So please sign if you've seen those glorious maps. I will not let this post die until CCP responds as to why they removed it and or if they can get it back. Caldari Loyalist. ( -í° -£-û -í°) They see me rollin they Hating (..) ( l: ) ( .-. ) ( :l ) (..)
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 12	Posted - 2015.06.18 00:32:00 - [2] - Quote OMG looking at that CRU at the top right corner. Those were the days. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
JARREL THOMAS Dead Man's Game 704	Posted - 2015.06.18 00:37:00 - [3] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: OMG looking at that CRU at the top right corner. Those were the days. And that's why I want them back \o/ Caldari Loyalist. ( -í° -£-û -í°) They see me rollin they Hating (..) ( l: ) ( .-. ) ( :l ) (..)
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 12	Posted - 2015.06.18 00:44:00 - [4] - Quote Looking back, I can tell you this. CCP removed it skirmish 1.0 because players were complaining that the match mode was not entirely balanced because it was too damn hard for the attacking team to gain control over the city for the MCC to dock in the allotted time. Although some of us didn't really have a problem advancing towards the city if we were to coordinate effectively, that was the main problem. WE DID NOT HAVE THE TOOLS TO COORDINATE. Voice comms (back when UVT was a thing) were bugged which often allowed a player to listen in on the enemy team, player-run corporations and squads didn't exist yet, queue syncing was impossible, and disconnects were far more prevalent back then than they are now. Since we now have those tools available, I would love to see the return of skirmish 1.0 but at least for faction warfare since going into such game modes really does require that your team works together. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 12	Posted - 2015.06.18 00:55:00 - [5] - Quote Oh yeah, and about that defense relay I just noticed I spelled defense differently but it's still technically correct depending on which side of the pond you're on. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
PLAYSTTION Corrosive Synergy No Context 1	Posted - 2015.06.18 01:13:00 - [6] - Quote Signed, never played back them but these maps could/should be brought back and the mode can be released as an extra game mode. Galassault Galogi Galsent Galmando Galscout `Open Beta Vet - 46.5 mil sp Director of Corrosive Synergy`
JARREL THOMAS Dead Man's Game 704	Posted - 2015.06.18 01:33:00 - [7] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Looking back, I can tell you this. CCP removed it skirmish 1.0 because players were complaining that the match mode was not entirely balanced because it was too damn hard for the attacking team to gain control over the city for the MCC to dock in the allotted time. Although some of us didn't really have a problem advancing towards the city if we were to coordinate effectively, that was the main problem. WE DID NOT HAVE THE TOOLS TO COORDINATE. Voice comms (back when UVT was a thing) were bugged which often allowed a player to listen in on the enemy team, player-run corporations and squads didn't exist yet, queue syncing was impossible, and disconnects were far more prevalent back then than they are now. Since we now have those tools available, I would love to see the return of skirmish 1.0 but at least for faction warfare since going into such game modes really does require that your team works together. Thank you for the insight I really do hope that CCP sees this and thinks. CCP you have no idea how fun this could be. Caldari Loyalist. ( -í° -£-û -í°) They see me rollin they Hating (..) ( l: ) ( .-. ) ( :l ) (..)
Leither Yiltron Molon Labe. RUST415 1	Posted - 2015.06.18 01:58:00 - [8] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Looking back, I can tell you this. CCP removed it skirmish 1.0 because players were complaining that the match mode was not entirely balanced because it was too damn hard for the attacking team to gain control over the city for the MCC to dock in the allotted time. Although some of us didn't really have a problem advancing towards the city if we were to coordinate effectively, that was the main problem. WE DID NOT HAVE THE TOOLS TO COORDINATE. Voice comms (back when UVT was a thing) were bugged which often allowed a player to listen in on the enemy team, player-run corporations and squads didn't exist yet, queue syncing was impossible, and disconnects were far more prevalent back then than they are now. Since we now have those tools available, I would love to see the return of skirmish 1.0 but at least for faction warfare since going into such game modes really does require that your team works together. Completely the opposite. It was impossible for the defenders to win since the initial two defense points could be removed by forge gunners placed in impossible-to-deny positions. If those two defense points went down quickly enough, there was no way that the defenders would do enough damage to the MCC from the rear objectives to win, even if they held the null cannons the entire time. I don't think that was really the reason that the game mode was removed. At worst that was a drastic implementation mistake with a relatively easy solution. We've learned that Skirm 1.0 used a dirty hack to get the MCC to move in the first place. The mode was completely abandoned for a redesign. I suspect that they decided that Skirmish 1.0 was consuming too many resources, and correspondingly wouldn't ever be frenetic enough for the "audience" they were trying to find without additional in-battle player count. Adding players, of course, has never really happened in Dust's history. Long term roadmap by Aeon Amadi Have a pony
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 12	Posted - 2015.06.18 02:06:00 - [9] - Quote Leither Yiltron wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Looking back, I can tell you this. CCP removed it skirmish 1.0 because players were complaining that the match mode was not entirely balanced because it was too damn hard for the attacking team to gain control over the city for the MCC to dock in the allotted time. Although some of us didn't really have a problem advancing towards the city if we were to coordinate effectively, that was the main problem. WE DID NOT HAVE THE TOOLS TO COORDINATE. Voice comms (back when UVT was a thing) were bugged which often allowed a player to listen in on the enemy team, player-run corporations and squads didn't exist yet, queue syncing was impossible, and disconnects were far more prevalent back then than they are now. Since we now have those tools available, I would love to see the return of skirmish 1.0 but at least for faction warfare since going into such game modes really does require that your team works together. Completely the opposite. It was impossible for the defenders to win since the initial two defense points could be removed by forge gunners placed in impossible-to-deny positions. If those two defense points went down quickly enough, there was no way that the defenders would do enough damage to the MCC from the rear objectives to win, even if they held the null cannons the entire time. I don't think I saw that happen very often. I was often put into matches where the attackers were already well coordinated by chance or when the defenders were already aiming their turrets at the MCC. Yes, back then it was possible for a tank or turret installation to destroy an MCC and the max range of the turrets were enough to hit their mark. If anything, the tanks seem to have been the ones destroying the defense relays more often than the forge gunners. Overall, the issue with easily-destructible defense relays could have been easily solved by buffing their total HP so that you have no choice but to hack it in order to destroy it. But let's not forget that the dev team at the time did not have the level of coordination it has now to do that simple fix. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 12	Posted - 2015.06.18 02:09:00 - [10] - Quote Leither Yiltron wrote: I don't think that was really the reason that the game mode was removed. At worst that was a drastic implementation mistake with a relatively easy solution. We've learned that Skirm 1.0 used a dirty hack to get the MCC to move in the first place. The mode was completely abandoned for a redesign. I suspect that they decided that Skirmish 1.0 was consuming too many resources, and correspondingly wouldn't ever be frenetic enough for the "audience" they were trying to find without additional in-battle player count. Adding players, of course, has never really happened in Dust's history. A hack to get the MCC to move? But it was already moving at the start of the match. That was it's intended design. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 12	Posted - 2015.06.18 02:12:00 - [11] - Quote By the way, for those who are wanting to see for themselves, this is Skirmish 1.0... https://youtu.be/LVZILONI45U Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
Scheneighnay McBob Tribal Liberation Force Paramilitary 7	Posted - 2015.06.18 02:19:00 - [12] - Quote Crater lake is too low res, but I definitely want the old map layouts to be back in rotation. Skirmish 1.0 wouldn't work, because the only maps that work with that game mode are crater lake (no longer exists) and line harvest. It gets repetitive having only 1 map for a game mode. Rule 34.6.1: every parody will have a crossover
Scheneighnay McBob Tribal Liberation Force Paramilitary 7	Posted - 2015.06.18 02:23:00 - [13] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Leither Yiltron wrote: I don't think that was really the reason that the game mode was removed. At worst that was a drastic implementation mistake with a relatively easy solution. We've learned that Skirm 1.0 used a dirty hack to get the MCC to move in the first place. The mode was completely abandoned for a redesign. I suspect that they decided that Skirmish 1.0 was consuming too many resources, and correspondingly wouldn't ever be frenetic enough for the "audience" they were trying to find without additional in-battle player count. Adding players, of course, has never really happened in Dust's history. A hack to get the MCC to move? But it was already moving at the start of the match. That was it's intended design. I believe what they meant by "hack" was that CCP minmatar-rigged it to work. Rule 34.6.1: every parody will have a crossover
Scheneighnay McBob Tribal Liberation Force Paramilitary 7	Posted - 2015.06.18 02:24:00 - [14] - Quote You can tell that's a real gameplay screenshot, and not staged, because the turret on the left is clearly either shooting at nothing, or shooting at something far out of range of the blaster. Real blueberries. Rule 34.6.1: every parody will have a crossover
JARREL THOMAS Dead Man's Game 705	Posted - 2015.06.18 02:34:00 - [15] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Crater lake is too low res, but I definitely want the old map layouts to be back in rotation. Skirmish 1.0 wouldn't work, because the only maps that work with that game mode are crater lake (no longer exists) and line harvest. It gets repetitive having only 1 map for a game mode. They're smart enough and they can make more or refit current ones Caldari Loyalist. ( -í° -£-û -í°) They see me rollin they Hating (..) ( l: ) ( .-. ) ( :l ) (..)
Leither Yiltron Molon Labe. RUST415 1	Posted - 2015.06.18 02:56:00 - [16] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Leither Yiltron wrote: I don't think that was really the reason that the game mode was removed. At worst that was a drastic implementation mistake with a relatively easy solution. We've learned that Skirm 1.0 used a dirty hack to get the MCC to move in the first place. The mode was completely abandoned for a redesign. I suspect that they decided that Skirmish 1.0 was consuming too many resources, and correspondingly wouldn't ever be frenetic enough for the "audience" they were trying to find without additional in-battle player count. Adding players, of course, has never really happened in Dust's history. A hack to get the MCC to move? But it was already moving at the start of the match. That was it's intended design. I believe what they meant by "hack" was that CCP minmatar-rigged it to work. That's correct. I've heard the explanation that within the game engine, the MCC was placed on an entire map layer with 0 opacity, and that the map layer on which the players played moved underneath the MCC layer. In any case, we've been told repeatedly that Skirmish 1.0 would have to be rebuilt from the ground up, including the maps, because of the original implementation's oddities. At its core it's something to hope for, and I think a lot of people have it on their list. But it's probably not the top priority long-term, high-resource-budget thing to be fixed. Long term roadmap by Aeon Amadi Have a pony
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 12	Posted - 2015.06.18 02:58:00 - [17] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Crater lake is too low res, but I definitely want the old map layouts to be back in rotation. Skirmish 1.0 wouldn't work, because the only maps that work with that game mode are crater lake (no longer exists) and line harvest. It gets repetitive having only 1 map for a game mode. That would not be a problem. CCP Rattati already demonstrated with the MCC Construction Facility that it is possible to duck tape together a whole new map. A whole new mode as well if you look at how acquisition was made. Also, let's not forget that Dust is still operating with the legacy code and might still have some of the old functions that we saw in Skirmish 1.0 buried in there somewhere. The only problem I would see is time since that would require CCP to have to devote attention away from other developments such as Planetary Conquest 2.0 and the limited tiericide they talked about in the recent status update. A short term solution to that would be to just bring back the old crater lake map into rotation and just use that a placeholder for now. The old textures might still function. If not, the current ones could also be used as placeholders for the time being. It would truly be "Minmatar-Hacked" as you worded it at that point, but it might work. And as PLAYSTTION mentioned, CCP could just simply add it in as an entirely separate mode from Skirmish 2.0, Ambush, Acquisition, and Domination. Alternatively, it could be made temporarily available for testing in the Special Contracts like how teleporters were tested not too long ago. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 12	Posted - 2015.06.18 03:01:00 - [18] - Quote Leither Yiltron wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Leither Yiltron wrote: I don't think that was really the reason that the game mode was removed. At worst that was a drastic implementation mistake with a relatively easy solution. We've learned that Skirm 1.0 used a dirty hack to get the MCC to move in the first place. The mode was completely abandoned for a redesign. I suspect that they decided that Skirmish 1.0 was consuming too many resources, and correspondingly wouldn't ever be frenetic enough for the "audience" they were trying to find without additional in-battle player count. Adding players, of course, has never really happened in Dust's history. A hack to get the MCC to move? But it was already moving at the start of the match. That was it's intended design. I believe what they meant by "hack" was that CCP minmatar-rigged it to work. That's correct. I've heard the explanation that within the game engine, the MCC was placed on an entire map layer with 0 opacity, and that the map layer on which the players played moved underneath the MCC layer. In any case, we've been told repeatedly that Skirmish 1.0 would have to be rebuilt from the ground up, including the maps, because of the original implementation's oddities. At its core it's something to hope for, and I think a lot of people have it on their list. But it's probably not the top priority long-term, high-resource-budget thing to be fixed. Interesting. That part I was never told. In fact, I don't think CCP even mentioned that in the old forums. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy


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