DUST Search - Proto should give less or no SP

Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:

Proto means "Prototype". A word that implies an object that is being produced around a theory, and hence has flaws, such as it could kill the user if it overheats yadda yadda.

In essence they are unstable. It also makes sense that they should give less SP overall, because they are not training weapons or suits.
WP should remain untouched.

Proto weapons and suits are clearly not going to be used by those who are learning about combat, hence the basic premise of SP is combat education.
Modules should be unaffected because they are assistant items instead of direct items with regards to connection to the user.

In other words, it's a trade-off between power now, and power later.

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Edit:
To remind those who don't keep up with information, Public matches ARE going to get a Cap placed on them.
The Devs are planning it to be based on Meta Levels (that new number next to your fittings that isn't how many remain)
My plan is an alternative cap, that reduces payouts for using Proto without preventing you from being able to use them.

So: Get rid of Proto, or keep it with a loss?
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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1	Posted - 2015.06.16 00:40:00 - [1] - Quote Proto means "Prototype". A word that implies an object that is being produced around a theory, and hence has flaws, such as it could kill the user if it overheats yadda yadda. In essence they are unstable. It also makes sense that they should give less SP overall, because they are not training weapons or suits. WP should remain untouched. Proto weapons and suits are clearly not going to be used by those who are learning about combat, hence the basic premise of SP is combat education. Modules should be unaffected because they are assistant items instead of direct items with regards to connection to the user. In other words, it's a trade-off between power now, and power later. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
SHERIFF joe arapio US Border Patrol 323	Posted - 2015.06.16 00:45:00 - [2] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Proto means "Prototype". A word that implies an object that is being produced around a theory, and hence has flaws, such as it could kill the user if it overheats yadda yadda. In essence they are unstable. It also makes sense that they should give less SP overall, because they are not training weapons or suits. WP should remain untouched. Proto weapons and suits are clearly not going to be used by those who are learning about combat, hence the basic premise of SP is combat education. Modules should be unaffected because they are assistant items instead of direct items with regards to connection to the user. In other words, it's a trade-off between power now, and power later. Aren't you a beeta Vet? Start acting one and HTFU. All this crying and whining about proto. Leave it alone. What is the purpose of capping out (before 750K) every week? It felt like an accomplisment. Making your merc stronger, more valuable on the field. NO "The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited."
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 6	Posted - 2015.06.16 00:48:00 - [3] - Quote So is this just a "the real definition of this word mean this so CCP must revert time and resources to said thing" thread? Because if it is it's debatable unlike changing the name of the Ar to BR or PR or even the rail rifle to guass rifle to make it sound cooler. "The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited."
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1	Posted - 2015.06.16 00:51:00 - [4] - Quote SHERIFF joe arapio wrote: Aren't you a beeta Vet? Start acting one and HTFU. All this crying and whining about proto. Leave it alone. What is the purpose of capping out (before 750K) every week? It felt like an accomplisment. Making your merc stronger, more valuable on the field. NO Proto should be an endgame concept. Once you have all the skills you want, then should proto be even considered. I would bet that a lot of single-sided matches would suddenly disappear from the Public area, and migrate to the FW or PC areas, where SP means next to nothing. It would be a natural seggregation barrier. Or do you WANT the Meta Level Caps that ARE going to be implemented? Nocturnal Soul wrote: So is this just a "the real definition of this word mean this so CCP must revert time and resources to said thing" thread? Because if it is it's debatable unlike changing the name of the Ar to BR or PR or even the rail rifle to guass rifle to make it sound cooler. So I take it you don't want to use Proto anymore in Pub matches? Okay. Besides, it's not that much work. Just attach a variable to each weapon used for a kill and tally them. If kill type = 1, full points. if kill type = 2 reduced points. Same thing with the time spent on the field. Time in Proto tally, time out of proto tally. It's variables for a table, not field effects nor assets. In the Unreal engine, such a thing is easy cheese. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
Reign Omega T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 1	Posted - 2015.06.16 01:01:00 - [5] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Proto means "Prototype". A word that implies an object that is being produced around a theory, and hence has flaws, such as it could kill the user if it overheats yadda yadda. In essence they are unstable. It also makes sense that they should give less SP overall, because they are not training weapons or suits. WP should remain untouched. Proto weapons and suits are clearly not going to be used by those who are learning about combat, hence the basic premise of SP is combat education. Modules should be unaffected because they are assistant items instead of direct items with regards to connection to the user. In other words, it's a trade-off between power now, and power later. Prototype can also mean the first of its kind, the mold from which all inferior parts are cast, the standard of excellence. Side note...no. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1	Posted - 2015.06.16 01:20:00 - [6] - Quote Reign Omega wrote: Prototype can also mean the first of its kind, the mold from which all inferior parts are cast, the standard of excellence. Side note...no. So you want the Hard cap against Proto gear instead of this Soft cap? Interesting choice. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 411	Posted - 2015.06.16 01:59:00 - [7] - Quote For as long as I ever play video games I'll be a fan of tiercide just from all the proto whiners in Dust.
Shadowed Cola Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 148	Posted - 2015.06.16 02:02:00 - [8] - Quote Dear OP: GIT GUD Sincerely; Everyone else.
SHADOWBlood ASSASSIN The Hundred Acre Hood Rise Of Legion. 169	Posted - 2015.06.16 02:04:00 - [9] - Quote These forums need a dislike feature... My 6th respec put me into the same things as my 2nd respec, only this time I have 12 million more SP =P
General Vasquez Agis Dynamics Incorporated 22	Posted - 2015.06.16 02:17:00 - [10] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Proto means "Prototype". A word that implies an object that is being produced around a theory, and hence has flaws, such as it could kill the user if it overheats yadda yadda. In essence they are unstable. It also makes sense that they should give less SP overall, because they are not training weapons or suits. WP should remain untouched. Proto weapons and suits are clearly not going to be used by those who are learning about combat, hence the basic premise of SP is combat education. Modules should be unaffected because they are assistant items instead of direct items with regards to connection to the user. In other words, it's a trade-off between power now, and power later. Agreed

Denchlad 7 Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.06.16 02:43:00 - [11] - Quote facedesk ... facedesk No. Im gonna let someone else who is filled with coffee and not pissed off at Playstations crap E3 announcements explain why. Choo choo chooooo, lets all fck a blender. Dench's Thrift Shop* <-- WIP
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1	Posted - 2015.06.16 03:11:00 - [12] - Quote Shadowed Cola wrote: Dear OP: GIT GUD Sincerely; Everyone else. This is a solution to allow you to keep your Proto gear. Or did you not know that the Meta Levels the Devs are bringing will lock out fits above a certain rank from Pubs? Go look at your suits again. There is a "Meta Level Rank" next to each suit now. It wasn't there before. This is merely a halfway alternative to cutting Proto from the battle altogether. --Or was your point to remove Proto permanently? --The post is very unclear. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
Shadowed Cola Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 158	Posted - 2015.06.16 03:20:00 - [13] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Shadowed Cola wrote: Dear OP: GIT GUD Sincerely; Everyone else. This is a solution to allow you to keep your Proto gear. Or did you not know that the Meta Levels the Devs are bringing will lock out fits above a certain rank from Pubs? Go look at your suits again. There is a "Meta Level Rank" next to each suit now. It wasn't there before. This is merely a halfway alternative to cutting Proto from the battle altogether. --Or was your point to remove Proto permanently? --The post is very unclear. Sir, i don't need your solutions to keep my gear, i keep them fine Apperently, you can't, and want change. Or maybe you're sick of stomping and want to nerf peoples feel to need to use them to get the highest WP possible and best stats? i see not the confusion, only the scrubbery. Proto is cost effective, if you suck it'll run your wallet dead. If you're good it'll pile up. The weak die, the strong survive. New Eden continues.
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 412	Posted - 2015.06.16 03:33:00 - [14] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Shadowed Cola wrote: Dear OP: GIT GUD Sincerely; Everyone else. This is a solution to allow you to keep your Proto gear. Or did you not know that the Meta Levels the Devs are bringing will lock out fits above a certain rank from Pubs? Go look at your suits again. There is a "Meta Level Rank" next to each suit now. It wasn't there before. This is merely a halfway alternative to cutting Proto from the battle altogether. --Or was your point to remove Proto permanently? --The post is very unclear. With all the lopsided battles it's insane to ask people to not use proto. If my team is down 6 and there are a bunch of tanks, I can't pull out a min mando with swarms and a CR to try and clear a path? If my entire team is on a roof I can't go balls out for the point in a proto suit if I want to try to take the point? I will say that I think it's a bit overboard to continue to use proto after its clear the other team is garbage. But to me even then it's part of the deal. I'll never understand why so many people that don't even care enough to squad up get so upset about people for using gear they earned in a long progression game.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1	Posted - 2015.06.16 04:51:00 - [15] - Quote Shadowed Cola wrote: The weak die, the strong survive. New Eden continues. Then....You're going to be dying a lot in the future when you can't use Proto anymore for pubs. :/ Remember the cap I was talking about? No? Well it's coming whether you think it exists or not. All I'm asking is if you want the hard cap, where Proto gear will most likely make a suit unable to enter combat due to Level requirements, or a soft cap (my idea), where all suits can still be used, but you don't get any experience benefits. Reminder: Devs idea--- Hard cap suit Meta levels, to prevent certain suit combos from being able to deploy. My idea-- Soft cap high-end gear to make it useable, but far less profitable. If you gotta use it, you gotta use it. In short: I'm offering you the chance to keep your Proto gear in pubs. PC and FW will be unaffected. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
137H4RGIC Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 516	Posted - 2015.06.16 05:45:00 - [16] - Quote How does this follow the Risk v Reward theme which follows the EVE universe? With your suggestion, I see only Huge Risk, little reward. Risk = Reward in EU [EVE Universe]. I want to help DUST become a better experience for everyone. Let's work together! 137H4RGIC - Running for CPM2 (SOONGäó)
Jack Boost Zarena Family 855	Posted - 2015.06.16 06:17:00 - [17] - Quote Asking for non usuning proto = asking AA off. Few points that OP miss: - my 'proto' heavy has meta around 35 - APEX logi (proto + basic eq) 95+ Now: - What you will see in pub meta-locked matches? ADV all or proto HEAVY... and probably all forum will be cry to nerf it - Why proto logi can't do SP s#it as basic/ logi? Doing toons of SP/WP as logi are not bordered by meta/proto dropsuit. People will just jump over any 'fences' here. Your proposition will nerf more my nerfed heavy and do nothing to others. No from me. Try elsewere. Not much time left...
Mejt0 Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.06.16 13:08:00 - [18] - Quote The only and only thing that makes proto good are modules. Everybody's talking about proto, but you forget that complex modules are what makes i+Ñ good. ADV suit with complex mods > PRO suit with adv mods. Loyal to The State Member of : State Protectorate Belongs to : Patriots power bloc Civire Bloodline
Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit 2	Posted - 2015.06.16 13:26:00 - [19] - Quote How about no? Am I the only one not seeing a problem with Proto? The trade-off is already there. If it weren't you wouldn't be crying and run proto all day long. Sign up for Caldari FW and defeat the evil Gallente Overlords!
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 7	Posted - 2015.06.16 14:46:00 - [20] - Quote No.

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.16 15:15:00 - [21] - Quote Denchlad 7 wrote: facedesk ... facedesk No. Im gonna let someone else who is filled with coffee and not pissed off at Playstations crap E3 announcements explain why. How about someone who is aggressive, cranky and evil instead? Dear OP. Your bad idea gave this poor neckbeard forum brain cancer which now causes him to harm himself for my amusement. Your idea is comprised of a logic asspull dependent upon the idea that a human brain should magically shut off when inserted into a superior protective device. Now I will admit that sometimes my brain tries to shut off, but that usually involves small children and the demand that I subject myself to "spongebob squarepants" against my will and better judgement. I find it difficult to justify logically, or even as a balance mechanic, why learning should stop in a game without a level cap. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
VikingKong iBUN 0uter.Heaven 422	Posted - 2015.06.16 15:28:00 - [22] - Quote -1 I would like a Gallente SMG. TUNNEL SNAKES RULE
DarK KNigHT007 Corrosive Synergy No Context 107	Posted - 2015.06.16 15:50:00 - [23] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Proto means "Prototype". A word that implies an object that is being produced around a theory, and hence has flaws, such as it could kill the user if it overheats yadda yadda. In essence they are unstable. It also makes sense that they should give less SP overall, because they are not training weapons or suits. WP should remain untouched. Proto weapons and suits are clearly not going to be used by those who are learning about combat, hence the basic premise of SP is combat education. Modules should be unaffected because they are assistant items instead of direct items with regards to connection to the user. In other words, it's a trade-off between power now, and power later. --- --- Edit: To remind those who don't keep up with information, Public matches ARE going to get a Cap placed on them. The Devs are planning it to be based on Meta Levels (that new number next to your fittings that isn't how many remain) My plan is an alternative cap, that reduces payouts for using Proto without preventing you from being able to use them. So: Get rid of Proto, or keep it with a loss? --- --- He is drunk leave him alone The MosT ImportanT ThinG U NeeD IS LUCK
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1	Posted - 2015.06.16 16:38:00 - [24] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Dear OP. I want to be unable to use my Proto gear in public matches, when the Devs shut it down for newcomer balance reasons. Ok. VikingKong iBUN wrote: I don't want Proto gear in public matches! I LIKE POTATOES! 111011101-1 Noted. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
Edgar Reinhart Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 103	Posted - 2015.06.16 18:28:00 - [25] - Quote It'd be a shame if proto was removed from pubs (not that I have any yet), even if it's only because it adds to the variety and requirements to be aware of what's going on around you. Also most of the people who have it have earned it, invested in it, paid for it etc etc, and apparently even stomping like mad it's tricky to make enough ISK in pubs to fuel the proto habit. If meta levels come in I'd probably like to see a dynamic balance around them on a per match basis. Rather than just lock people using a certain meta out of pubs I'd like people to be able to run whatever they want but their meta level to be taken into account at the end of the match. Now I know people are going to point out how open to abuse this probably is and how bad idea is bad but.... The oppositions average meta level, possibly based on everybody's preferred suit or simply on the highest meta level each person ran, could be calculated at the end of the match and then people get a multiplier on their WP or SP or ISK based on if their meta level was above or below that average. Everybody on the opposition only in Milita and your out in a maxed out mk.0 assault? Fine you can get your 40/1 KD but you're going to be getting an eg. -25% multiplier to your EOM WP/SP/ISK whereas the guy on your team who also only showed up in Militia Gear will be getting a +/-0% multiplier and because you've dragged your sides meta level up above the oppositions most of them will get an e.g +10% multiplier on their results. or something like that.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.16 18:47:00 - [26] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: I can't handle it when people disagree with me. Hmmm. Nope, it's not clever even when I do it. Try something original for a change. Come on man, this trick was old when beta ended. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
V1RONXSS X-SENSE Security 52	Posted - 2015.06.16 19:07:00 - [27] - Quote BS. Using full proto whery rare myself, mostly getting killed by one, however if "you" cant go proto, there are AUR, so welcome. The "Chiki Briki v Damki" Starter Pack.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1	Posted - 2015.06.17 04:41:00 - [28] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: I can't handle it when people disagree with me. Hmmm. Nope, it's not clever even when I do it. Try something original for a change. Come on man, this trick was old when beta ended. Your analogy is fairly flawed. The only possible responses to this are Yes or No. Claiming "no comment" is the same as saying "Yes" to the Meta Level lockouts that are coming up. --Hence your reply was literally a "No" to my suggestion and a "Yes" to the lockouts. There is no head-in-the-sand third option that you seem to think exists. I'm not really concerned with this, as much as I wanted to present an alternative. I don't use Proto, but I know YOU do. I've played against you before in pubs. If you want to lose your Proto suits, that's just fine and dandy. Oh yes, here's a question for you: Why would I want to keep the game harder for myself? http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
Summa Militum Art.of.Death 454	Posted - 2015.06.17 05:14:00 - [29] - Quote I think you would have been better off suggesting an increase to WPs earned by people using lower tiered gear to take out redberries using higher tiered gear. A rough example for suits: STD takes out STD = 50WP STD takes out ADV = 75WP STD takes out Proto = 100WP ADV takes out STD = 50WP ADV takes out ADV = 50WP ADV takes out Proto = 75WP Proto takes out STD = 50WP Proto takes out ADV = 50WP Proto takes out Proto = 50WP It essentially accomplishes what you ask for without coming off as trying to punish people for using protogear. Of course the amount of WPs earned would most likely have to depend on the difference in metalevel between the two berries fighting it out. Basing it just on what tier suit you are running wouldn't be the best route.
Powerh8er Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 827	Posted - 2015.06.17 13:12:00 - [30] - Quote OP is basically asking us to repaint a sinking ship. In a colour nobody likes. Have you got anymore exploding carrots?



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