DUST Search - REQUEST: AV Acknowledgement

True Adamance wrote:

Mina Longstrike wrote:

I believe the real issue is that vehicle raw HP is too low, hardeners harden for too much, and effective reps per second are way too high. Increase the raw hp (makes vehicles feel a bit more confident without modules up), lower the hardening values (2hardener 2 reps tank goes from ~4kehp to ~10k with modules active, and its reps go from ~200 to ~500) and lower the effective reps (this makes damage 'stick', so tanks are not fine 10-15 seconds after they leave an area).

Av is either immediately lethal, or almost infinitely endurable in the current model.

In some respects I agree with this in others not so much.

I do feel like raw hit point values are too low and that modules convey too much benefit to the point where they are the defining modules on the vehicle.

On the other hand I don't believe the repair values per second are too high at all. The only thing that prevents them from being balanced is that they are passive.

138 repairs per second from a Complex Heavy Armour Repairer is a fair value.

WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.


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Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.14 22:02:00 - [1] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Sly Marb0 wrote: I don't mind that armor tanks can just ignore a fully loaded PLC salvo, but it bothers me that I don't get war points for hitting an armor tank while they are hardened. Double stacked hardeners come with their own balance issue but if they are going to stay then make it so every one of my hits are credited. Why even bother running AV if I can hit a tank 8 times and not once get credit for damaging it before they kill me? Translation: "I dont mind being entirely ineffective as long as I get rewarded for it." Please rethink your opinions on this matter, because I believe they are stupid. This is actually the reason the AV warpoints were added, so that AV would actually be a rewarding profession. Because Tanks used to be nigh unto unstoppable. Was about as effective then as now. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.14 22:23:00 - [2] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: If you're trying to kill an armour hardened tank with a plc there's a reason the game is not rewarding you I would recommend some av grenades, they have enough alpha to break the reps/hardener and get those sweet, sweet warpoints He actually brought up a valid point. whatever the hardeners are doing it prevents hits from forge guns and such from registering for warpoints. it's not just PLCs. The mechanic does not seem to be working as intended. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.15 07:56:00 - [3] - Quote I believe the issue is that it is possible to negate WP rewards via fitting. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.15 21:50:00 - [4] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: This is actually the reason the AV warpoints were added, so that AV would actually be a rewarding profession. Because Tanks used to be nigh unto unstoppable. Was about as effective then as now. I have to disagree, since a rep/hardener madruger is 100% invincible to any single AV until the hardeners go down these days, before if the madruger just sat there it would eventually die. Question: Did you actually read what I said? Because I don't think you're responding to my intent. at all. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.16 07:37:00 - [5] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: This is actually the reason the AV warpoints were added, so that AV would actually be a rewarding profession. Because Tanks used to be nigh unto unstoppable. Was about as effective then as now. I have to disagree, since a rep/hardener madruger is 100% invincible to any single AV until the hardeners go down these days, before if the madruger just sat there it would eventually die. Question: Did you actually read what I said? Because I don't think you're responding to my intent. at all. "Because Tanks used to be nigh unto unstoppable. Was about as effective then as now." This is what I was responding to. At the time it was invulnerable gunnlogis. I am well aware of the current extremes of ridiculous fitting in the game. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.17 20:13:00 - [6] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Mina Longstrike wrote: I believe the real issue is that vehicle raw HP is too low, hardeners harden for too much, and effective reps per second are way too high. Increase the raw hp (makes vehicles feel a bit more confident without modules up), lower the hardening values (2hardener 2 reps tank goes from ~4kehp to ~10k with modules active, and its reps go from ~200 to ~500) and lower the effective reps (this makes damage 'stick', so tanks are not fine 10-15 seconds after they leave an area). Av is either immediately lethal, or almost infinitely endurable in the current model. In some respects I agree with this in others not so much. I do feel like raw hit point values are too low and that modules convey too much benefit to the point where they are the defining modules on the vehicle. On the other hand I don't believe the repair values per second are too high at all. The only thing that prevents them from being balanced is that they are passive. 138 repairs per second from a Complex Heavy Armour Repairer is a fair value. yes and no. Have i showed you my horrible AV/HAV proposal? It addresses a lot of things. The only thing I can't figure out how to word in it is adjusting tank prices downward without sounding more arrogant than I usually do, or some poncy douchewad who thinks he knows more than he does. I'm of the opinion that HAV/LAVs/Dropships should be disposable assets, just like dropsuits (not as easy to kill, obviously or why bother?) and priced as such so the roles can be economically sustainable rather than "LOL you must win this many battles to drive this vehicle." I'd like an opinion of someone who is NOT an infantry sperg, so Pokey won't be alone in his odd dissenting points. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.17 22:55:00 - [7] - Quote Zan Azikuchi wrote: A lot of us... Don't play EVE.... for a while there was nothing really big enough to be worth pointing a titan at and risking it, save for another titan, or the opportunity to doomsday splash entire grids of ships without warning. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.18 10:05:00 - [8] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Disposable Assets Not sure I personally agree with that. I really need to format a proper response however to summarise it quickly it would be that rather than a disposable asset I would personally like to see HAV and other vehicle types really take on a tactical value in combat. By disposable asset, I mean something that doesn't fill you with the urge to scream and fling your controller through the TV when I destroy it. Destructible solo, highly vulnerable to gang-ups, but not costing (at minimum) 2 missions of good performance to replace at the MLT/STD level. Financially sustainable. HAVs cannot be considered a sustainable profession as-is except when run by the most risk-averse behaviors (that are about useless to a team) in the game. And even so, there are issues. My theory is that balancing HAV/AV interaction should be defined by TTK rather than DPS. Set a minimum TTK desired for AV to solo purge a tank. Then price the hulls accordingly. No, I am not saying use ISK as a balance metric. I am suggesting that ISK cost should reflect intended utility. I'm not necessarily in agreement with everyone on all things, but I am of the opinion that everything should be destructible. Everything. But that philosophy comes with the caveat that everything in the game should be sustainable with profit at the STD level. Decent players should be able to sustain ADV nearly indefinitely. Proto should be reserved for escalation. I do not buy the blanket statement that "Vehicles are OP." It carries the same validity in my eyes as the blanket "AV is OP." I would like to see vehicles destructible, but as we increase that feature it needs to be looked at with an eye at raising lethlity versus AV/infantry so that we have more balls out fights than one sided muggings. I am actually interested in hearing your thoughts. Edit: I would also like there to be a reason not to escalate to proto AV unless there is a proto tank on the field. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.