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Bright Cloud
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.06.12 18:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
Apex suit usage went trough the roof due to their versatility and low cost to restock costum fittings. However unlike STD suit BPO's they have the same cost like a proto suit when destroyed (57,690 ISK to be precise). That is usually much more then the regular scrub could afford.
So using a apex suit is relatively cheap but killing one in a pub match means the overall payout will be higher. If all 32 players would use only apex suits then the pub payouts would probs be somewhere around 400k ISK+. Its not just that apex users increase the ISK generation they are aswell FW LP milking machines. When you win a FW match you get 40% what your suit was worth back. So a pure apex suit fit would get you 23.076 ISK back with each death that means if your custom fit does not exceed that you will not make any loss at all regardless how many times youve died.
So what do we know so far:
-apex increase pub payouts when destroyed
-no ISK loss risk in FW
-costumisable and can even compete with ADV gear
Basically it runs down to the simple rule of "get a apex or get screwed".
Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
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Joel II X
Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
7
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Posted - 2015.06.12 18:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
Proto fits don't cost 57k...
My cheapest proto fit is like 107k. |
Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
10
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Posted - 2015.06.12 18:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
Works with me. I use primarily Advanced and Prototype gear anyway so my payouts being higher because the other team decided to be scrublords and not spend -any- ISK at all on their suit? Works in my favor.
Design a Skin Challenge POLL (Vote Now!)
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P14GU3
UNIVERSAL C.A.R.N.A.G.E
1
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Posted - 2015.06.12 18:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:Proto fits don't cost 57k...
My cheapest proto fit is like 107k.
Just the suit, not counting modules.
'Sault AK.0 - Logi AK.0 - Logi GK.0 - Scout GK.0 - 'Mando MK.0 - Masshole in every sense of the word.
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Bright Cloud
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.06.12 18:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:Proto fits don't cost 57k...
My cheapest proto fit is like 107k.
Yeah but only very few ADV fits cost 57k. STD fits barely even break the 20k mark and dont even get me started with people that use militia suits cause that is near worthless to increase the pub payout.
Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
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The KTM DuKe
Dead Man's Game
324
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Posted - 2015.06.12 18:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
Bright Cloud wrote:Joel II X wrote:Proto fits don't cost 57k...
My cheapest proto fit is like 107k. Yeah but only very few ADV fits cost 57k. STD fits barely even break the 20k mark and dont even get me started with people that use militia suits cause that is near worthless to increase the pub payout.
My Adv fits usually are through 35k and 55k isk, so yes, apex costs more than AdV but not all apex perfirm as Adv dropsuit, amarr sentinel apex is clearly OP aling with min logi and minmatar and amarr assaults, cant say the same for rest...
H0riz0n Unlimit alt - Nexus Balusa Horizon -> RND -> I.H. -> DMG!
Loyal till the end.
Gallente omni-merc
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LOL KILLZ
LulKlz
185
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Posted - 2015.06.12 19:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
My Sentinel Proto fit costs over 115k. It's not cheap
CEO of LulKlz/ chat channel LulKlz, code 0000 <--- numbers
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sir RAVEN WING
3
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Posted - 2015.06.12 19:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
How did you get that verdict?
I do just fine without APEXs, and I usually get payouts of around 250k when scout, and 350k when logi, losing on average about 96k when Scout (24k suit) or 34k when Logi (34k Suit)
Raven for CPM2
Shield buff, focus on balancing of weapons, and vehicles.
New Content if possible + PS4 port.
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sir RAVEN WING
3
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Posted - 2015.06.12 19:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
LOL KILLZ wrote:My Sentinel Proto fit costs over 115k. It's not cheap
I have militia items (Myos) on mine and it hits 120k exact, what are you putting on yours?
EDIT: This is my Prototype Caldari Assault
Raven for CPM2
Shield buff, focus on balancing of weapons, and vehicles.
New Content if possible + PS4 port.
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maybe deadcatz
Horizons' Edge
No Context
99
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Posted - 2015.06.12 20:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
sir RAVEN WING wrote:LOL KILLZ wrote:My Sentinel Proto fit costs over 115k. It's not cheap I have militia items (Myos) on mine and it hits 120k exact, what are you putting on yours? EDIT: This is my Prototype Caldari Assault
I use a 15k basic fit that i use all the only time. I get a 300-400k payout when i top the scoreboard.
Ewar? What's that? Some kind of fancy new way of being lazy? Learn how to use your eyes and ears you maggots.
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P14GU3
UNIVERSAL C.A.R.N.A.G.E
1
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Posted - 2015.06.12 21:28:00 -
[11] - Quote
LOL KILLZ wrote:My Sentinel Proto fit costs over 115k. It's not cheap
That's pretty cheap for a proto fit. Sentinals are lucky now actually because they have the least slot count. Back in beta, im pretty sure the sentinal was the most expensive for some reason.
If you want to see expensive run a logi. Some of my logi fits are upwards of 220K
'Sault AK.0 - Logi AK.0 - Logi GK.0 - Scout GK.0 - 'Mando MK.0 - Masshole in every sense of the word.
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Void Echo
Helix Terrestrial Operations LLC
2
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Posted - 2015.06.12 22:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
My full proto load outs cost 201K ISK each.
Closed Beta Vet.
Founder of Helix Order.
For the Federation, For Freedom, Till all are Free.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
9
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Posted - 2015.06.12 22:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
P14GU3 wrote:LOL KILLZ wrote:My Sentinel Proto fit costs over 115k. It's not cheap That's pretty cheap for a proto fit. Sentinals are lucky now actually because they have the least slot count. Back in beta, im pretty sure the sentinal was the most expensive for some reason. If you want to see expensive run a logi. Some of my logi fits are upwards of 220K
My average proto Sentinel costs around 155k
My average proto LOLmando, after the buff, I'm projecting at approximately 210k, because two proto primaries is asspensive on top of a proto suit
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Nocturnal Soul
Primordial Threat
6
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Posted - 2015.06.12 23:42:00 -
[14] - Quote
Apex suits absolutely destroyed the salvage system in Fw, as far as I see it they're a problem that needs to be abolished.
"The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited."
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Thokk Nightshade
Montana Militia
900
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Posted - 2015.06.13 00:09:00 -
[15] - Quote
Maybe I missed the memo, so if someone could provide a link it would be appreciated. I saw where they changed FW/ PC payouts so that you get back some of your suit losses in ISK. When did they start linking equipment lost in Pub matches into the payout system? I thought it was based entirely on time in battle (x ISK /sec) and WP's earned.
Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
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Scheneighnay McBob
Tribal Liberation Force Paramilitary
7
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Posted - 2015.06.13 03:00:00 -
[16] - Quote
Aye, APEX suits are increasingly gamebreaking.
They weren't initially, but it's almost as if Rattati is trying to make them break Dust.
Rule 34.6.1: every parody will have a crossover
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deezy dabest
2
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Posted - 2015.06.13 03:11:00 -
[17] - Quote
This is why FW should have never gotten the ISK addition.
At best it should have gotten a "keep what you kill" system so that each player receives 30% of the cost of the fitting they kill while any one that gets an assist on that person gets 10% of the value of that suit.
It is a simple system that would actually reward participation instead of just being a farmville. Can you imagine a bunch of newbies rushing every pr suit they see in hopes of collecting an additional 30 - 40k for that one kill ? |
Talon Paetznick II
Black Listed Pirates
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
153
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Posted - 2015.06.13 16:07:00 -
[18] - Quote
does it matter tiericide is going to kill apex anyway
all proper murder is premeditated, that's what makes new Eden fun
acidental mansluaghter charges in FW however are not
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
2
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Posted - 2015.06.13 16:39:00 -
[19] - Quote
sir RAVEN WING wrote:How did you get that verdict?
Easy. It can be distilled into this simply explained exploitable thing:
- You use a free BPO suit with no isk cost for yourself (unless you want to edit some extra)
- You will get refunded for 40% of 57k (for the suit alone)
In pubs, apex would increase enemy team payout, hence generating isk into the economy.
KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading.
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Bright Cloud
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.06.13 17:43:00 -
[20] - Quote
Talon Paetznick II wrote:does it matter tiericide is going to kill apex anyway
Not really after the power core addition and tiericide are beeing implemented there will still be the "apex power core". That one will still provide more PG and CPU then the STD power core plus you forget that apex suits still come with usefull prefitted modules like plates or weapons that make sense on them (scrambler on assault etc).
The paradox is that by common definition BPO's arent usually good for ISK earnings but since apex suits allways drop a worth of a minimum of 57k ISK is the reason why people get more ISK from pubs. Ive noticed a ISK increase in pubs due to the massive usage of apex suits.
If you dont know why this is a paradox then the general eve rule is like these:
low risk= low reward
high risk= high reward
apex breaks the rule with no risk= high reward. This goes for pubs and FW. More apex spam= more ISK generated.
It allows aswell the usage of logistic roles at a much lower risk. Every logi player knows that playing logistc is only worth at proto (cause the basic/adv suits are too squishy). With a apex logi you can tank it out decently while aswell throwing on a ADV equipment.
I got myself 6 apex suits from the FW stores (they dont have the nasty "apex" word in their name). So all roles that i see fitting i can use a apex instead. Most of the times i wont need to use ADV/PRO cause the opposition is using aswell either STD or apex. Using proto would just escalate in proto spam, same thing with tanks i only use em if i have to. Cause once im in a tank sooner or later somebody will drop a proto tank with a railgun and tripple damage mods to pop me.
Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
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Petra 222 SoM
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
90
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Posted - 2015.06.13 18:06:00 -
[21] - Quote
I am not seeing your logic at all.
Why would an increase isk in pubs be a bad thing?
An advanced suit can fit better mods/weapons than an apex. BPOs are non consumable, why do you have have an issue with this now? If you upgrade your slots you pay for them. Makes sense.
And if the Its exploiting FW then just change the value amount.
Im not seeing a real problem here.
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Leither Yiltron
Molon Labe.
RUST415
1
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Posted - 2015.06.13 18:17:00 -
[22] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Aye, APEX suits are increasingly gamebreaking.
They weren't initially, but it's almost as if Rattati is trying to make them break Dust.
This is why I vehemently oppose adding the ability to customize Apex suits. The risk was pretty obvious and completely unnecessary, and now we've got a really questionable mechanic that is locked behind a pay gate to boot.
Long term roadmap by Aeon Amadi
Have a pony
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Bright Cloud
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.06.13 18:29:00 -
[23] - Quote
Leither Yiltron wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Aye, APEX suits are increasingly gamebreaking.
They weren't initially, but it's almost as if Rattati is trying to make them break Dust. This is why I vehemently oppose adding the ability to customize Apex suits. The risk was pretty obvious and completely unnecessary, and now we've got a really questionable mechanic that is locked behind a pay gate to boot.
Ratatti is working on the tiericide and power core idea. The base on that one is that all suits have the same slot layouts, a STD suit will then have the same slots like a proto suit. The only difference then is that with each tier you go up you get more PG+CPU. It will aswell make the apex suits more balanced vs STD suits.
Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
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Leither Yiltron
Molon Labe.
RUST415
1
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Posted - 2015.06.13 20:32:00 -
[24] - Quote
Bright Cloud wrote:Leither Yiltron wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Aye, APEX suits are increasingly gamebreaking.
They weren't initially, but it's almost as if Rattati is trying to make them break Dust. This is why I vehemently oppose adding the ability to customize Apex suits. The risk was pretty obvious and completely unnecessary, and now we've got a really questionable mechanic that is locked behind a pay gate to boot. Ratatti is working on the tiericide and power core idea. The base on that one is that all suits have the same slot layouts, a STD suit will then have the same slots like a proto suit. The only difference then is that with each tier you go up you get more PG+CPU. It will aswell make the apex suits more balanced vs STD suits.
Breaking the game now in anticipation of mitigating changes later isn't something I'm supportive of. The tiericide changes still won't mitigate the raw economic effects that APEX customization are having on the game. Standard level BPO's are barely acceptable. The APEX suits, which are better given the customization, are completely unacceptable. Without some kind of risk-reward calculus Dust is a game totally devoid of any personality. Apex suits being behind a pay gate only reinforces the mentality that you can pay real life money to get substantially ahead of non-paying players in ISK terms. That hasn't been CCP's policy in the past, and I hope it's not going into the future.
I know what tiericide is though! I've been supporting it for years now. ;)
Long term roadmap by Aeon Amadi
Have a pony
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