DUST Search - [Feedback] Improving Scouts

Juno Tristan wrote:

Pokey Dravon wrote:

Breakin Stuff wrote:

Pokey Dravon wrote:

Im almost wondering we we need to take a look at exactly how the cloak renders. I think its a pretty valid argument that the cloak is actually more visible in the dark than it is in the sun, which seems counter intuitive to me.

Ever watch predator? You notice how you could see the distortions better in odd lighting?

It's a thing. the more natural light you run across a thing like that the more the camoflage works. you start dimming the light or distorting the light and your eyeball starts tracking harder on shapes and movement than patterns.

This is one of the reasons why Red/Green color blindness is favored as a sniper trait. For some reason people with the trait can pick up shapes/movement more easily.

I actually haven't seen Predator but that's interesting. Also interesting bit about the snipers, did not know that.

I mean I don't really have an issue with the cloak's rendering, I just found it interesting that it ends up working like that.

Wow, wow, wow, you haven't seen predator?

Get a few beers in, turn on Netflix and get to the chopper!

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Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 10	Posted - 2015.06.12 16:17:00 - [1] - Quote Assuming all else is held constant: * Reduce backpedal speed by another 5% to 10% * Change cloak active damp bonus from 0-5-10 to 10-15-20 * Reduce cloak shimmer at ranges > 80m and when standing perfectly still * Set falloff "inner rings" to 5m-7m (all classes) and restore Range Amps to +45% Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.06.12 16:33:00 - [2] - Quote It still makes no sense to me that they didn't want the basic Cloak to give any kind of dampening bonus. TUNNEL SNAKES RULE!
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 10	Posted - 2015.06.12 20:06:00 - [3] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: It still makes no sense to me that they didn't want the basic Cloak to give any kind of dampening bonus. Think the idea at the time was to encourage high-HP Scouts to run damps instead of HP modules. Increasing the active damp bonus runs the risk of these units returning, though they'd be a less potent version than before due to numerous changes ... * Cloakblind * Decloak Delay * Falloff * Assault buffs Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.06.12 20:16:00 - [4] - Quote Im almost wondering we we need to take a look at exactly how the cloak renders. I think its a pretty valid argument that the cloak is actually more visible in the dark than it is in the sun, which seems counter intuitive to me. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.13 00:30:00 - [5] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Im almost wondering we we need to take a look at exactly how the cloak renders. I think its a pretty valid argument that the cloak is actually more visible in the dark than it is in the sun, which seems counter intuitive to me. Ever watch predator? You notice how you could see the distortions better in odd lighting? It's a thing. the more natural light you run across a thing like that the more the camoflage works. you start dimming the light or distorting the light and your eyeball starts tracking harder on shapes and movement than patterns. This is one of the reasons why Red/Green color blindness is favored as a sniper trait. For some reason people with the trait can pick up shapes/movement more easily. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 1	Posted - 2015.06.13 05:12:00 - [6] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Im almost wondering we we need to take a look at exactly how the cloak renders. I think its a pretty valid argument that the cloak is actually more visible in the dark than it is in the sun, which seems counter intuitive to me. It is interesting. I'm sure that wasn't intended, but it could make for some cool stealth dynamics: "Avoid the shadows" while cloaked. I'm all for making everything more skill/decision based. Hypothetical CPM Platform
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 10	Posted - 2015.06.13 06:23:00 - [7] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Im almost wondering we we need to take a look at exactly how the cloak renders. I think its a pretty valid argument that the cloak is actually more visible in the dark than it is in the sun, which seems counter intuitive to me. It is interesting. I'm sure that wasn't intended, but it could make for some cool stealth dynamics: "Avoid the shadows" while cloaked. I'm all for making everything more skill/decision based. Would be fine with it if there were viable alternatives to cloak for those uber squishy of us. I would hate to have to feel like I have to back out of matches just because I got one of the darker mood settings. I just think it would work better if visibility while cloaked were a function of distance as well as other factors. If I am out in the open running around a city socket, I shouldn't have to worry about a sniper 200 m away seeing me light up and making an easy target. At the same time, if I shouldn't be able to run right up to someone's grill outside of their crosshairs, but in their FoV without being seen. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
emm kay Direct Action Resources 325	Posted - 2015.06.13 06:30:00 - [8] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Assuming all else is held constant: * Reduce backpedal speed by another 5% to 10% (or) fit units to a Speed/HP curve * Increase cloak active damp bonus from 0-5-10 to 10-15-20 * Reduce cloak opacity when viewed from range, when standing still and when crouched * Set falloff inner rings to a fixed 5m-7m (all classes), then restore Range Amps to +45% What this tells me: * make shotguns and novas more effective. make us seem stealthier make the scout more invisibly make it so that on top of all of that, we can't see *** untill we're in optimal range of the shotgun. In short: no. i support nothing but the second star. There is a reason you never see me in battle. it's because I see you first.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.06.13 09:29:00 - [9] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Im almost wondering we we need to take a look at exactly how the cloak renders. I think its a pretty valid argument that the cloak is actually more visible in the dark than it is in the sun, which seems counter intuitive to me. Ever watch predator? You notice how you could see the distortions better in odd lighting? It's a thing. the more natural light you run across a thing like that the more the camoflage works. you start dimming the light or distorting the light and your eyeball starts tracking harder on shapes and movement than patterns. This is one of the reasons why Red/Green color blindness is favored as a sniper trait. For some reason people with the trait can pick up shapes/movement more easily. I actually haven't seen Predator but that's interesting. Also interesting bit about the snipers, did not know that. I mean I don't really have an issue with the cloak's rendering, I just found it interesting that it ends up working like that. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 677	Posted - 2015.06.13 11:54:00 - [10] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Im almost wondering we we need to take a look at exactly how the cloak renders. I think its a pretty valid argument that the cloak is actually more visible in the dark than it is in the sun, which seems counter intuitive to me. Ever watch predator? You notice how you could see the distortions better in odd lighting? It's a thing. the more natural light you run across a thing like that the more the camoflage works. you start dimming the light or distorting the light and your eyeball starts tracking harder on shapes and movement than patterns. This is one of the reasons why Red/Green color blindness is favored as a sniper trait. For some reason people with the trait can pick up shapes/movement more easily. I actually haven't seen Predator but that's interesting. Also interesting bit about the snipers, did not know that. I mean I don't really have an issue with the cloak's rendering, I just found it interesting that it ends up working like that. Wow, wow, wow, you haven't seen predator? Get a few beers in, turn on Netflix and get to the chopper! ADS Ramming Revenge! Plasma Cannon Rampage

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 10	Posted - 2015.06.13 15:55:00 - [11] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: Wow, wow, wow, you haven't seen predator? Get a few beers in, turn on Netflix and get to the chopper! ^ Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 10	Posted - 2015.06.13 16:47:00 - [12] - Quote emm kay wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Assuming all else is held constant: * Reduce backpedal speed by another 5% to 10% (or) fit units to a Speed/HP curve * Increase cloak active damp bonus from 0-5-10 to 10-15-20 * Reduce cloak opacity when viewed from range, when standing still and when crouched * Set falloff inner rings to a fixed 5m-7m (all classes), then restore Range Amps to +45% What this tells me: * make shotguns and novas more effective. make us seem stealthier make the scout more invisibly make it so that on top of all of that, we can't see *** untill we're in optimal range of the shotgun. In short: no. i support nothing but the second star. This very much seems to be a significant twisting of words... Are you going to tell CCP Rattati that you think the Speed/HP curve is merely a means of making shotgun/knifing scouts OP? That is just completely irrational. What is wrong with making low HP suits in a game that, above all, prizes HP more viable with reasonable adjustments? The cloak is in a place now where it cannot be abused in combat, given the delay and blindness. You already likely can't see squat until you are in SG's optimal range... All the inner circle change does is take a nerf that was necessary to Range Amps unnecessary so that Range Amps are a viable module again. If you want to be taken seriously, perhaps you should do a little less extreme spinning of suggestions and use a bit more explanation with salient qualitative and quantitative points. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 10	Posted - 2015.06.13 17:00:00 - [13] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: * Set falloff inner rings to a fixed 5m-7m (all classes), then restore Range Amps to +45% All the inner circle change does is take a nerf that was necessary to Range Amps unnecessary so that Range Amps are a viable module again. Precisely. This also speaks directly to intra-class parity, as the CA Scout and AM Scout bonuses could again offer meaningful benefit when paired with Range Extenders. It is worth pointing out that their scans would be no where near as strong as they were before Falloff and Cloakblind. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Petra 222 SoM Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 92	Posted - 2015.06.13 17:26:00 - [14] - Quote Yes Please. The compound nerfs to scouts was too drastic and the current active scanner spam makes their trade off in HP a death wish. These are good changes to the game overall and a welcomed fix to the currently awkward scout role.
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1	Posted - 2015.06.13 17:43:00 - [15] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: * Set falloff inner rings to a fixed 5m-7m (all classes), then restore Range Amps to +45% All the inner circle change does is take a nerf that was necessary to Range Amps unnecessary so that Range Amps are a viable module again. Precisely. This also speaks directly to intra-class parity, as the CA Scout and AM Scout bonuses could again offer meaningful benefit when paired with Range Extenders. It is worth pointing out that their scans would be no where as strong as they were before Falloff and Cloakblind. The range amp fix is a must. They didn't consider this option when nerfing the RA which is unfortunate. Overlord of Broman
emm kay Direct Action Resources 325	Posted - 2015.06.14 03:31:00 - [16] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: This very much seems to be a significant twisting of words... Are you going to tell CCP Rattati that you think the Speed/HP curve is merely a means of making shotgun/knifing scouts OP? That is just completely irrational. What is wrong with making low HP suits in a game that, above all, prizes HP more viable with reasonable adjustments? The cloak is in a place now where it cannot be abused in combat, given the delay and blindness. You already likely can't see squat until you are in SG's optimal range... All the inner circle change does is take a nerf that was necessary to Range Amps unnecessary so that Range Amps are a viable module again. If you want to be taken seriously, perhaps you should do a little less extreme spinning of suggestions and use a bit more explanation with salient qualitative and quantitative points. range amps are still very viable, they are used by many a logi. i don't support that because there is no way that CCP should ever require a module to be fit in order to be effective at the task in which the suit resides. And yes, to an extent. Speed/hp curve is a broken thought process. It should really be int F(Speed)dhp, that is, the area under the speed curve with respect to hp. Ccp is using an inverse equation for speed/hp, which means that the burden of diminishing returns is put on speed. This, combined with module stacking penalties, make speed tanking a horrible idea. Aside from that, it also tells us how the reward of having a long range weapon diminishes with speed. There is a reason you never see me in battle. it's because I see you first.
NINEinch WEAPON WarRavens 126	Posted - 2015.06.14 09:43:00 - [17] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Im almost wondering we we need to take a look at exactly how the cloak renders. I think its a pretty valid argument that the cloak is actually more visible in the dark than it is in the sun, which seems counter intuitive to me. Ever watch predator? You notice how you could see the distortions better in odd lighting? It's a thing. the more natural light you run across a thing like that the more the camoflage works. you start dimming the light or distorting the light and your eyeball starts tracking harder on shapes and movement than patterns. This is one of the reasons why Red/Green color blindness is favored as a sniper trait. For some reason people with the trait can pick up shapes/movement more easily. I actually haven't seen Predator but that's interesting. Also interesting bit about the snipers, did not know that. I mean I don't really have an issue with the cloak's rendering, I just found it interesting that it ends up working like that. Wow, wow, wow, you haven't seen predator? Get a few beers in, turn on Netflix and get to the chopper! I'm gunna get me sum fun... "winning" an inch at a time


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