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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
6
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Posted - 2015.06.09 15:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
UPDATE: Instead of using fuel units as a new system, fuel will be existing war points. Warpoints power your modules and can be converted into warbarge components to faster build your ship. Thanks Breakin Stuff.
Passive generation of goods needs to go. As I illustrate here, farming items is a silent issue that is going to creep up on us if we are not proactive in addressing it.
Introducing warbarge fuel
You earn warbarge fuel (warpoints) by completing matches and earn progressively larger amounts by completing matches each day in succession.
Match 1 Bonus = 200 War Points
Match 2 Bonus = 700 War Points
Match 3 Bonus = 2250 War Points
Further matches you complete that day without breaking the chain earn 2250 war points bonus to be used as fuel or component conversion.
As seen in the info graphic, fuel powers each warbarge subsystem and must be replenished by activity in order to maintain its power. You store warpoints in reserve for personal use at any time (fuel amount ticker may be used as an indication via screenshot to other players of your activity in Dust). You may only transfer or sell fuel to another player by spending district kredits.
Cons:
Adds another layer of complexity to warbarge management and gives players who chose to participate in PC with district battles or raids, a degree of freedom to farm accounts for items as before by sending fuel to those accounts. While it only takes 3 completed matches to return to full fuel reward, a DC from match will be very frustrating.
Pros:
Players have a strong incentive not to leave matches as they are guaranteed payout of war points for fuel to power and upgrade their warbarge modules. This system would allow for the loyalty rank requirement for sending items to be removed. Alt account farming is limited by the capacity of player activity to earn (by playing matches) or buy fuel with ISK from others and using district kredits to transfer fuel. The more active you are playing Dust the greater your ability to support production on multiple accounts. (DK's are spent to transfer fuel (war points) to another player. CCP controls the cost of Kredits to send fuel to another player. CCP has the ability to implement a District Kredit tax on the player who sells 'too' much fuel to other accounts).
Not Monetizing War Points
The Monetization Question:
CCP will likely adopt this if there is a way to turn it into a revenue stream. CCP Rattati is managing a business with Dust 514. What is a fair AUR price to pay for fuel if you are able to earn 225 units per match by just playing the game normally?
Raiding another player's war point reserve:
Raiding another player's warbarge could be set up around the system hacking interface as use in Eve. Defender sets up hack system (pays warpoints to set up different configurations and trap nodes), attacker must spend warpoints to initiate a hack on another player's warbarge (they do not get this initiation fee back). If they lose, defender gets x amount of attackers warpoints. If attacker wins, they get x number of the defender's war point reserve. https://youtu.be/fhQ0VRTLcas
Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
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I-Shayz-I
I----------I
5
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Posted - 2015.06.09 16:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
I don't have time to play 3 matches when it takes 5 minutes before I decide to switch my que back to Dom so I don't waste half an hour trying to find a skirmish match.
If this was Splatoon where it takes 10 seconds to get players into a match, and each match isn't a 20 minute Domination stomp...then maybe I'd actually be playing Dust right now.
During the slower times late at night when I have time to play, there should really be an 8v8 game mode or something with smaller maps.
Until then, not being able to use my warbarge passively means I would be logging in less regularly, which means an even smaller chance of me taking the time to play a match or two while I'm on.
It would then boil down to "do I have 2 hours to set aside tonight to claim my warbarge stuff? No? Well I guess I'm gonna play Splatoon instead"
7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
6
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Posted - 2015.06.09 17:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
That's where the fuel reserve function comes in and allows you to stockpile fuel. Have one day in the week to play a bunch of dust? Build up a massive reserve of fuel to last you well through the week, where all you have to do is log once a day to keep the modules topped up with fuel.
You can also buy fuel off of another player if they have the necessary district kredits to make the transfer.
Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
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Talos Vagheitan
Ancient Exiles.
1
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Posted - 2015.06.09 18:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
I see you've really thought this through.
But is Warbarge farming really a problem? It would be a massive giant pain in the ass just to farm a few million a day. Not exactly game-breaking in my opinion.
Also factoring in, I believe you can't even give ISK until you're a certain rank now, correct? Meaning people actually have to play all their farm accounts anyways.
!--CCP, PORT DUST 2.0 TO XB1 AND PS4 AS THE FIRST CROSS PLATFORM SHOOTER--!
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
6
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Posted - 2015.06.09 19:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
Talos Vagheitan wrote:I see you've really thought this through.
But is Warbarge farming really a problem? It would be a massive giant pain in the ass just to farm a few million a day. Not exactly game-breaking in my opinion.
Also factoring in, I believe you can't even give ISK until you're a certain rank now, correct? Meaning people actually have to play all their farm accounts anyways.
You can still send ISK via the donation button in your corporation.
Anyways, I really don't want to name names as people have come to me in confidence about their setups. People are building up in the background alright and it's ultimately not good for the health of the game.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=204878
Dust would be utterly broken if brought to PC with this current passive system in place. It's so easy to bot.
Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
9
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Posted - 2015.06.09 19:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
I would tie all production to active warpoint generation Jadek. It's easy to AFK matches or tool around uselessly.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Adis Riefha
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
9
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Posted - 2015.06.09 21:01:00 -
[7] - Quote
Would your idea also come with a magic matchmaker to create some players in my timezone? For a couple months I had this problem were I would log in, grab the stuff my warbarge made, tried for a couple times to get a match, logged out again later.
So this idea would probably end up either disabling my warbarge forever, or force me to play some public matches, which I don't want. (Amassing Amarr LP for a nice looking Apex-BPO is the only goal I have left in-game.) |
Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
6
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Posted - 2015.06.09 22:05:00 -
[8] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:I would tie all production to active warpoint generation Jadek. It's easy to AFK matches or tool around uselessly.
And then everyone ran logi to farm war points.
Let's look at this system as a stepping stone. Existing anti-afk mechanics can be appended to this system.
For example you complete a match but don't reach the minimum wp requirement (let's say 100 wp). Your counter doesn't start back a zero, but you don't move forward and are not awarded warbarge fuel in the EoM loot table.
Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
6
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Posted - 2015.06.09 22:07:00 -
[9] - Quote
Adis Riefha wrote:So this idea would probably end up either disabling my warbarge forever, or force me to play some public matches, which I don't want. (Amassing Amarr LP for a nice looking Apex-BPO is the only goal I have left in-game.)
It may very well do so. You could however, trade some LP gear to another player for their fuel stockpiles.
Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
9
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Posted - 2015.06.09 22:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:I would tie all production to active warpoint generation Jadek. It's easy to AFK matches or tool around uselessly. And then everyone ran logi to farm war points. Let's look at this system as a stepping stone. Existing anti-afk mechanics can be appended to this system. For example you complete a match but don't reach the minimum wp requirement (let's say 100 wp). Your counter doesn't start back a zero, but you don't move forward and are not awarded warbarge fuel in the EoM loot table.
Honestly I'm more comfortable with logi farming than I am with the difficulty of hitting 150 warpoints then merrily jerking off in the redline for the other ten minutes of the fifteen minute match.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
6
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Posted - 2015.06.09 22:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Jadek Menaheim wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:I would tie all production to active warpoint generation Jadek. It's easy to AFK matches or tool around uselessly. And then everyone ran logi to farm war points. Let's look at this system as a stepping stone. Existing anti-afk mechanics can be appended to this system. For example you complete a match but don't reach the minimum wp requirement (let's say 100 wp). Your counter doesn't start back a zero, but you don't move forward and are not awarded warbarge fuel in the EoM loot table. Honestly I'm more comfortable with logi farming than I am with the difficulty of hitting 150 warpoints then merrily jerking off in the redline for the other ten minutes of the fifteen minute match.
Alright, good point. Are you open to the idea of warpoints themselves being manageable fuel that powers your warbarge, but can also be traded or sold to other players by spending District Kredits?
Also the not leaving match reward could be a war point bonus instead of these fuel units.
Complete Match 1 = 200 War Points
Complete Match 2 = 750 War Points
Complete Match 3 = 2250 War Points
Further completed matches award 2250 War Points
Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
9
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Posted - 2015.06.09 22:46:00 -
[12] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Jadek Menaheim wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:I would tie all production to active warpoint generation Jadek. It's easy to AFK matches or tool around uselessly. And then everyone ran logi to farm war points. Let's look at this system as a stepping stone. Existing anti-afk mechanics can be appended to this system. For example you complete a match but don't reach the minimum wp requirement (let's say 100 wp). Your counter doesn't start back a zero, but you don't move forward and are not awarded warbarge fuel in the EoM loot table. Honestly I'm more comfortable with logi farming than I am with the difficulty of hitting 150 warpoints then merrily jerking off in the redline for the other ten minutes of the fifteen minute match. Alright, good point. Are you open to the idea of warpoints themselves being manageable fuel that powers your warbarge, but can also be traded or sold to other players by spending District Kredits?
I'm thinking warpoints would be a good metric, because of two things:
they're a measurement of contribution, and no matter how cheesedicky, should be rewarded.
And because deliberately boosting is bannable and I hope to catch a few of those
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
6
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Posted - 2015.06.09 22:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
It also seems intuitive from naming convention standpoint.
War points fuel warbarge.
There might also be a fair way to convert war points into components that build up the subsystems of your warbarge.
Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
6
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Posted - 2015.06.09 23:04:00 -
[14] - Quote
Anyone have a suggestion for how many War Points is should take to acquire 1 Warbarge Component?
Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
9
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Posted - 2015.06.09 23:27:00 -
[15] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:Anyone have a suggestion for how many War Points is should take to acquire 1 Warbarge Component?
call it 9-12 Wp/component.
so minimum 83 components for every 1000 warpoints up to your daily max of whatever, not including salvaged components
people will obsessively farmville passive barges.
but sooner or later only the most insanely obsessive won't take a break from playing for a few days to relax. If they want to do it, more power to them. Let people flush time and effort obsessively for an edge the same way you can flush aurum down the crapper for an edge
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
11
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Posted - 2015.06.09 23:37:00 -
[16] - Quote
/this idea pleases maken
Eve Online Invite
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
6
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Posted - 2015.06.09 23:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:
call it 9-12 Wp/component.
so minimum 83 components for every 1000 warpoints up to your daily max of whatever, not including salvaged components
I've got a little over 1m lifetime warpoints so that'd give me 83333 components to toy around with if I didn't use any of it for subsystem fuel.
Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
11
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Posted - 2015.06.10 00:06:00 -
[18] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:
call it 9-12 Wp/component.
so minimum 83 components for every 1000 warpoints up to your daily max of whatever, not including salvaged components
I've got a little over 1m lifetime warpoints so that'd give me 83333 components to toy around with if I didn't use any of it for subsystem fuel.
Based on these figures, it would cost me at least 305,228 WPs (rounded down) to be able to upgrade my mobile factory to level 4. Considering that I earn about 1200 WPs in a good match for me, that would take me 254 matches to complete. Of course, that's just for upgrading. Not sure about the fuel costs.
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
6
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Posted - 2015.06.10 00:22:00 -
[19] - Quote
I'm not sure if adding a zero to all these figures is the right solution but I'm doing it anyway for theory crafting
http://imgur.com/fLYvZJd
Match 1 Bonus = 200 War Points
Match 2 Bonus = 700 War Points
Match 3 Bonus = 2250 War Points
Further matches you complete that day without breaking the chain earn 2250 war points bonus to be used as fuel or component conversion.
Fuel
-Each ring absorbs 250 Warpoint fuel units per 12 hours.
-Each Ring Takes 1000 fuel units to fill (250 per section).
-First battle earns 250 and consecutive battles that Day earn (2nd) 750 units, (3rd Max) 2250 UNITS.
-Your personal GÇÿWarpoint ReserveGÇÖ is shown on character Page. Fuel reserve (i.e. your warpoints) may be raided*
-Players pay District Kredits to send fuel to another player.
*Suggestions for system of how fuel might be raided are welcome.
Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
6
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Posted - 2015.06.10 00:37:00 -
[20] - Quote
Raiding another player's war point reserve:
Raiding another player's warbarge could be set up around the system hacking interface as use in Eve. Defender sets up hack system (pays warpoints to set up different configurations and trap nodes), attacker must spend warpoints to initiate a hack on another player's warbarge (they do not get this initiation fee back). If they lose, defender gets x amount of attackers warpoints. If attacker wins, they get x number of the defender's war point reserve. https://youtu.be/fhQ0VRTLcas
Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
9
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Posted - 2015.06.10 12:11:00 -
[21] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:Raiding another player's war point reserve:Raiding another player's warbarge could be set up around the system hacking interface as use in Eve. Defender sets up hack system (pays warpoints to set up different configurations and trap nodes), attacker must spend warpoints to initiate a hack on another player's warbarge (they do not get this initiation fee back). If they lose, defender gets x amount of attackers warpoints. If attacker wins, they get x number of the defender's war point reserve. https://youtu.be/fhQ0VRTLcas
Direct attacking a warbarge should be something implemented very carefully.
You do realize I WILL use any such system to systematically grief everyone who has a name with a letter in it, right?
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Helpful Veteran 18002738255
Pleasure Hub Hotline
70
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Posted - 2015.06.10 12:38:00 -
[22] - Quote
^ Only numbers will be safe from Breakin's wrath!
H¦Å-â-à-Ä-û¦ª¦ÿ¦½-ܦ¬E¦ï-¡-ù-ÿ¦¬¦á¦û-öL¦â¦Å-è¦+-á¦+¦¦¦½¦¦-ö¦+P¦â-¡¦ö-ª¦Ç¦ç¦î¦Ä¦¢-í¦P¦¦ -è¦ï¦â-º-ï-æ¦ô-º¦«-ö¦û¦+-ĦP¦¦-Ħá -¬¦é¦è¦Ä-é-æ-ÿ¦ª-ö¦¼-ç
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
9
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Posted - 2015.06.10 12:40:00 -
[23] - Quote
Helpful Veteran 18002738255 wrote:^ Only numbers will be safe from Breakin's wrath!
I've been breaking numbers as well over the last couple months. I'm pretty sure Jadek's seen my rifle normalization and AV proposals.
NOTHING IS SAFE
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
6
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Posted - 2015.06.10 12:41:00 -
[24] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Jadek Menaheim wrote:Raiding another player's war point reserve:Raiding another player's warbarge could be set up around the system hacking interface as use in Eve. Defender sets up hack system (pays warpoints to set up different configurations and trap nodes), attacker must spend warpoints to initiate a hack on another player's warbarge (they do not get this initiation fee back). If they lose, defender gets x amount of attackers warpoints. If attacker wins, they get x number of the defender's war point reserve. https://youtu.be/fhQ0VRTLcas Direct attacking a warbarge should be something implemented very carefully. You do realize I WILL use any such system to systematically grief everyone who has a name with a letter in it, right?
Of course. I'm thinking about this in the Clash of Clans sense where you build a persistent fortress (a network node system in this case) and your ability to maintain resources from continued attacks relies on being able to set up a good defense.
Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
6
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Posted - 2015.06.23 18:17:00 -
[25] - Quote
We could also reduce the amount of matches from 3 to 2 needed to chain maximum earning potential from.
Operating on the assumption "warpoints are fuel"
Old Proposal:
Match 1 Bonus = 200 War Points
Match 2 Bonus = 700 War Points
Match 3 Bonus = 2250 War Points
Further matches you complete that day without breaking the chain earn 2250 war points bonus to be used as fuel or component conversion.
New Proposal:
Match 1 Bonus = 200 Warpoints
Match 2 Bonus = 1020 Warpoints
Further matches you complete that day without breaking the chain earn 1020 war points bonus to be used as fuel or component conversion.
12 warpoints can be converted to 1 warbarge component. 1020 warpoints would equal 83 components. As an anti-afk measure you must earn 150 wp in a battle. If you complete a battle but do not earn 150 wp you are not penalized, however you do not receive bonus warpoints.
Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
6
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Posted - 2015.06.23 23:36:00 -
[26] - Quote
These wp bonuses to completing a match would naturally bump up sp payout a little bit, and possibly ISK payout if for example one player left the last match and is only getting a 200 wp bonus while the player who has not left matches gets 1020 wp changing their respective positions on the EoM leaderboard.
Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
6
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Posted - 2015.06.24 00:47:00 -
[27] - Quote
'Clearing customs' - Players use warpoints to unlock newsletter and recruitment rewards for trade to other players (large wp cost based on per item category basis.) Rewards have a new tab in assets menu.
Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
6
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Posted - 2015.06.24 03:55:00 -
[28] - Quote
^ Items would still be usable without any Warpoint expense on the account > character they are redeemed to.
Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
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KalOfTheRathi
Nec Tributis
1
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Posted - 2015.06.24 04:01:00 -
[29] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:I don't have time to play 3 matches when it takes 5 minutes before I decide to switch my que back to Dom so I don't waste half an hour trying to find a skirmish match.
If this was Splatoon where it takes 10 seconds to get players into a match, and each match isn't a 20 minute Domination stomp...then maybe I'd actually be playing Dust right now.
During the slower times late at night when I have time to play, there should really be an 8v8 game mode or something with smaller maps.
Until then, not being able to use my warbarge passively means I would be logging in less regularly, which means an even smaller chance of me taking the time to play a match or two while I'm on.
It would then boil down to "do I have 2 hours to set aside tonight to claim my warbarge stuff? No? Well I guess I'm gonna play Splatoon instead"
Just logged out, could find a decent match. Had one good tank battle, would have liked to squad up with them later. Three losers that had little chance of pulling out a win, we were low on blues, slow on the point and I was slightly late to the good one (tank battle) while the blues didn't seem to have a focus. Such is Dust.
Off to die in Dark Souls, and MOG.
My favorite tank is a Lightning. Just sayin.
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Jadek Manahiem
Xer Cloud Consortium
1
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Posted - 2015.06.24 04:34:00 -
[30] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:Transfer - [b]Raiding another player's war point reserve:Raiding another player's warbarge could be set up around the system hacking interface as use in Eve. Defender sets up hack system (pays warpoints to set up different configurations and trap nodes), attacker must spend warpoints to initiate a hack on another player's warbarge (they do not get this initiation fee back). If they lose, defender gets x amount of attackers warpoints. If attacker wins, they get x number of the defender's war point reserve. https://youtu.be/fhQ0VRTLcasThis method of raiding could be adapted to a mobile companion app, the details and reasoning which I explore here.
One idea is to make a new warbarge subsystem that allows you to initiate x number of hacks per day. The more you level it up the more times you can try for a hack to find a breach in player's security design. |
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