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Ice Royal Glantix
PIanet Express
Smart Deploy
138
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Posted - 2015.06.02 15:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
Some time ago Range amplifiers received a rather large downgrade in effectiveness and were rendered near useless. This nerf also occurred at the exact same time that the passive scan circles were implemented, and at the same time that Cloak Fields were changed to reduce your passive scan radius while cloaked.
This three-fold nerf (mainly to scouts) has gone slightly too far, in my opinion, and I feel that we can safely buff Range Amplifiers.
Don't get me wrong, the old Range Amplifiers were way too powerful, but there is some room for improvement.
Let's look at the numbers.
Currently, Range Amps grant a 5%, 10%, and 15% increase to your passive scan radius at standard, advanced, and prototype level respectively. On a Proto Caldari Scout with level 5 Range Amplification, a single Range Amplifier grants 6.75 extra meters of range. This is on the suit with the largest scan radius. Other suits gain even smaller benefits. Logistics suits gain 5.625 meters, Sentinels gain 3.375 meters, and everything else gains 4.5 meters.
This is only looking at prototype modules. If we were to look at the basic modules used by people with basic skills, we would see increase of a single meter on most suits.
I'm not asking for a large buff; I would just like to see a 5% increase to all Range Amplifiers. At best this would grant an extra 9 meters to a Caldari Scout's passive scan radius.
TL;DR
Current Range Amplifiers:
Basic +5%
Advanced +10%
Prototype +15%
Proposed Range Amplifiers:
Basic +10%
Advanced +15%
Prototype +20%
Sincerely,
Glantix / Ice
"Solitude is not a burden; it is a gift, for independence allows us to realize our own potential."
Glantix / Ice
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Ice Royal Glantix
PIanet Express
Smart Deploy
139
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Posted - 2015.06.02 18:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
Oswald Rehnquist wrote:really the only thing about passives that is even semi reliable is the second ring, which for cal scouts its about 22 and logis is 18. A 5% increase isn't going to mean much, they might as well just combine them with prec mods.
I don't want to see them get buffed too much. The 80m Caldari Scout passives were absolutely ridiculous. I understand that this is nowhere near the 45% they once were, but it is still a fair yet significant increase. 20% would allow A CalScout to achieve just over 60m with 2 Range Amps, and I feel like that is a fairly good place to have it. 25% is where I would probably draw the line, as that pushes the CalScout to over 65m, which covers the effective ranges of many weapons.
If there is ever a need to buff them further, we can. We don't want to over buff them just to have to nerf them again.
Melchiah ARANeAE wrote:They definitely went overboard when nerfing passive scan, especially range amps. They also need to swap the range stats for logis and scouts. Who thought it would be a good idea to give suits dedicated to scanning worse scan range stats than a suit designed to carry equipment?
I like the Logi's passive scans as they are, it definitely reinforces the idea of the Logi being a support role. Scouts tend to use their passive scans to assist their slaying capabilities, so they don't need to be too high. Don't forget the CalScout would have a natural 56.25m passive scan radius with maxed skills if the swap you mentioned occurred, and that is far too much.
"Solitude is not a burden; it is a gift, for independence allows us to realize our own potential."
Glantix / Ice
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Ice Royal Glantix
PIanet Express
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141
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Posted - 2015.06.03 04:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
I understand the devs are busy, but if you could consider this, Rattati, that would be greatly appreciated. It doesn't seem like it would be difficult to throw in whith Power Cores and the Logistics changes.
Could we have some sign of confirmation whether or not this may happen?
Sincerely,
Glantix / Ice
"Solitude is not a burden; it is a gift, for independence allows us to realize our own potential."
Glantix / Ice
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Ice Royal Glantix
PIanet Express
Smart Deploy
144
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Posted - 2015.06.03 15:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
Oswald Rehnquist wrote:
A well thought out post filled with legitimate and logical arguments.
I understand what you are saying, but it would be easy to overbuff these things.
You also don't take into consideration the use of precision enhancers. With one precision enhancer, that last ring is capable of picking up any undampened medium frame. At 60-65m, that is enough to give any player, no matter how oblivious, a significant warning that allows him to react, re-position, and control the engagement. Despite what you say, I could argue that most killing occurs at under 60m, but I guess that depends on where you typically fight.
Scouts don't need another defense to help them while they are in the open, that is what the cloak is for. The small buff for the Range Amps would be enough for me to consider running them over Dampeners, without making them outright broken.
Finally, don't forget that we can always buff them further if this is not enough. I would rather see something buffed in small step rather than put that thing in a position where it has to be nerfed.
I'd prefer to advocate for a smaller buff, as it increases the chances of the devs considering it.
That concludes my arguments.
Sincerely,
Glantix / Ice
"Solitude is not a burden; it is a gift, for independence allows us to realize our own potential."
Glantix / Ice
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Ice Royal Glantix
PIanet Express
Smart Deploy
147
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Posted - 2015.06.04 18:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
Francois Sanchez wrote:Another solution would be to give fixed bonuses like HP mods, that would make amps useful for suits with a poor scan range without making Cal scouts and logis too good.
You could have for example +10 meters to total range per mod, with stacking penalties to prevent excessive scan ranges.
That could be +10, +8, +5, +2,.... which means +25 meters if you really want to stack, while having only one is still worthy on any suit. This idea is actually pretty interesting, but I do have one problem with it.
I feel like E-War modules should have the greatest benefit for the suits with naturally high E-War capabilities. This system that you have proposed would be of greatest benefit to Sentinels, and of least benefit to Logis and CalScouts, the prime choices for E-War support.
That being said, I think this system would be a great backup if a percentage cannot be agreed on.
Thanks for the feedback and interest idea.
Keep them coming guys.
Glantix / Ice
"Solitude is not a burden; it is a gift, for independence allows us to realize our own potential."
Glantix / Ice
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Ice Royal Glantix
PIanet Express
Smart Deploy
149
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Posted - 2015.06.05 18:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
Talos Vagheitan wrote:Here's what I would do.
Basic - +10% Range, -5% Precision
ADV - +15% Range, -10% Precision
PRO - + 25% Range, -15% Precision.
EDIT: For stacking penalties, the positive stats would suffer penalties similar to damage mods, while the included Precision penalty would be stacked completely.
Numbers are debatable, but my basic idea is range amps will work much better, but that increased range comes at the cost of precision. Meaning you'd have to combine them to make them very effective, just like shield extenders.
I am very opposed to this. The idea is to make Range Amps appealing, not even more useless. The penalty would completely ruin the point of running them, especially on the CalScout, which lacks a natural precision bonus.
"Solitude is not a burden; it is a gift, for independence allows us to realize our own potential."
Glantix / Ice
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Ice Royal Glantix
Dead Man's Game
172
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Posted - 2015.06.07 06:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Talos Vagheitan wrote:+% Range, -% Precision
Numbers are debatable, but my basic idea is range amps will work much better, but that increased range comes at the cost of precision. Meaning you'd have to combine them to make them very effective, just like shield extenders. No, not unless the penalties are as small as Shield Extender penalties.
Even then that would be unnecessary.
There shouldn't be any penalties to a module that is still very underpowered, and if Range Amps were to gain a penalty, then all E-War modules should gain a penalty.
Let's just stick to making E-War useful again.
"Solitude is not a burden; it is a gift, for independence allows us to realize our own potential."
Glantix / Ice
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Ice Royal Glantix
Dead Man's Game
172
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Posted - 2015.06.08 15:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
Due to the debate over the Range Amp buff, I would like to call a vote on how much we want the Range Amps buffed.
Below this are three posts, each with a different proposal for what the Range Amps could be.
I am asking everyone who sees this to like one of the three posts below, that way I can determine what the public wants in terms of a buff. No, this is not a like farm; this is just the most simple, albeit crude, way of setting up a voting system.
"Solitude is not a burden; it is a gift, for independence allows us to realize our own potential."
Glantix / Ice
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Ice Royal Glantix
Dead Man's Game
172
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Posted - 2015.06.08 15:03:00 -
[9] - Quote
Proposal 1:
Bsc: +10%
Adv: +15%
Pro: +20%
"Solitude is not a burden; it is a gift, for independence allows us to realize our own potential."
Glantix / Ice
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Ice Royal Glantix
Dead Man's Game
172
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Posted - 2015.06.08 15:04:00 -
[10] - Quote
Proposal 2:
Bsc: +10
Adv: +20
Pro: +30
"Solitude is not a burden; it is a gift, for independence allows us to realize our own potential."
Glantix / Ice
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Ice Royal Glantix
Dead Man's Game
172
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Posted - 2015.06.08 15:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
Proposal 3:
Bsc: +20%
Adv: +35%
Pro: +50%
"Solitude is not a burden; it is a gift, for independence allows us to realize our own potential."
Glantix / Ice
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Ice Royal Glantix
PIanet Express
Smart Deploy
184
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Posted - 2015.06.09 14:54:00 -
[12] - Quote
Is something unclear about the voting system? Or are people just too lazy to do anything?
"Solitude is not a burden; it is a gift, for independence allows us to realize our own potential."
Glantix / Ice
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Ice Royal Glantix
PIanet Express
Smart Deploy
184
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Posted - 2015.06.10 18:19:00 -
[13] - Quote
It'd be nice if this could get some attention, both from the developers and from the community.
"Solitude is not a burden; it is a gift, for independence allows us to realize our own potential."
Glantix / Ice
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Ice Royal Glantix
PIanet Express
Smart Deploy
184
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Posted - 2015.06.11 15:03:00 -
[14] - Quote
I have said this before, but I would like the Range Amps to give a percentage bonus, as that would make them more useful on the suits designed to use them than on the suits that are not. However, if a percentage cannot be agreed on, of if the developers believe a flat bonus would be better, I will not complain.
"Solitude is not a burden; it is a gift, for independence allows us to realize our own potential."
Glantix / Ice
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