DUST Search - Rifle normalization.

Breakin Stuff wrote:

DeathwindRising wrote:

Breakin Stuff wrote:

Fizzer XCIV wrote:

Looks **** and stupidly favored towards the shorter ranged bullethoses. 1% DPS per 1m of range? That's batshit insane. Maybe .25% per 1m would be reasonable, but a weapon doing 25% more DPS with only a 25m penalty? Jeez...

Not to mention that it throws Rifle vs Everything Else balance out the airlock, with the Everything Else heavily in favor.

Goddamn, someone makes a pretty but ****** graph and this community goes wild with praise...

Thank you for your constructive and useful criticism!

Tales will be told and songs will be sung of how useful your input has been to this conversation! Roll

Please tell me more what a genius I am while I get another bucket.

without insults... he has a point. your dps vs range cant be 1% for 1m.

if everyone was using the same suit then sure, you could balance that way, but weve got suits that with less eHP than others that also cant run damage mods freely like other suits.

none of your proposal is balanced considering the different suits and racial stats or slot layouts. 20m difference is not a realistic representation between a cqc weapon and a long range weapon lol, and certainly not worth 200 dps.

you can run gal assault with a dampener and never even show up on scan and be inside AR optimal range already. not my fault everyone only knows how to stack armor and damage mods.

It's what we call "A start point"

The details of the actual numbers? I leave that to the devs. It's the creation of a curve that everyone can understand clearly that is the important part.

I'm amazed that people seem to think that a proposal includes the caveat: YOU MUST USE THESE NUMBERS AS FINAL!!!

The guideline is more important. it provides a suggestion on how to look at the range/DPS curve.

That was what people were agreeing with, not my arbitrary take on %/meter.


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DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.05.30 11:40:00 - [1] - Quote nerf all your weapon damage again by 10%, then add a 10% damage bonus for pairing racial weapons with racial dropsuits. Potential TTK stays the same overall
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.05.31 01:15:00 - [2] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: nerf all your weapon damage again by 10%, then add a 10% damage bonus for pairing racial weapons with racial dropsuits. Potential TTK stays the same overall oh, actually this statement is incorrect. when you nerf something, and then add another bonus elsewhere to the DPS the net result is a loss. if you take 450 and remove 10% you get 405. but if you add a 10% buff to the 405 you get 445.5 So you continuously lose a little every time you do it. thats not noticable. tbut you can buff it by 12% to 15% if it matters
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.05.31 01:24:00 - [3] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: nerf all your weapon damage again by 10%, then add a 10% damage bonus for pairing racial weapons with racial dropsuits. Potential TTK stays the same overall All this would do is ruin racial diversity. why should gallente use an assault rifle when a rail rifle benefits them more? when this happens, a caldari using a rail rifle is out performed with his own weapon
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.05.31 03:35:00 - [4] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Option C would be my preference. But let's get off the semantics. Does anyone see problems with proposed stats? Does anyone need clarification on how the stat blocks in the spreadsheets work? excellent work
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.05.31 03:50:00 - [5] - Quote question: cal assault fitted with a full racial shield tank and no plates or damage mods vs gallente assault with full armor tank and damage mods. if they both use racial breach weapons, how much damage does the gal assault do at the RR's optimal range? it would a breach RR at level 5 skills vs Breach AR at level 5 skills plus 3 damage mods. im concerned that caldari would still be out performed damage wise (which why the weapon bnuses would be useful at making sure that doesnt happen)
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.05.31 04:06:00 - [6] - Quote Rail rifle variants all feature highest damage per shot along with highest range, except the base variant which feature less damage per shot. why have you done this?
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.06.01 10:51:00 - [7] - Quote Bishop Harcourt wrote: I read the doc and no spread sheet(a problem on my end, I believe) was to be found. No tabs, just a page with the proposal. I will check again after my break. The the names of the weapon classes are actually links to the pages. They're there. I missed it the first time I read it myself as well.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.06.06 15:13:00 - [8] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Georgia Xavier wrote: Never seen this much detail in rifle stats recently, it's awesome to read. What I find very strange though is how come the min out range the amarr? I know you said you didn't balance this by race but it still bothers me a bit Because it makees as much sense as the reverse. i wish we could figure out weapon accuracy. the recoil and dispersion on some weapons doesn't make much sense
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.07.04 19:17:00 - [9] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Looks ** and stupidly favored towards the shorter ranged bullethoses. 1% DPS per 1m of range? That's batshit insane. Maybe .25% per 1m would be reasonable, but a weapon doing 25% more DPS with only a 25m penalty? Jeez... Not to mention that it throws Rifle vs Everything Else balance out the airlock, with the Everything Else heavily in favor. Goddamn, someone makes a pretty but **** graph and this community goes wild with praise... Thank you for your constructive and useful criticism! Tales will be told and songs will be sung of how useful your input has been to this conversation! Please tell me more what a genius I am while I get another bucket. without insults... he has a point. your dps vs range cant be 1% for 1m. if everyone was using the same suit then sure, you could balance that way, but weve got suits that with less eHP than others that also cant run damage mods freely like other suits. none of your proposal is balanced considering the different suits and racial stats or slot layouts. 20m difference is not a realistic representation between a cqc weapon and a long range weapon lol, and certainly not worth 200 dps. you can run gal assault with a dampener and never even show up on scan and be inside AR optimal range already. not my fault everyone only knows how to stack armor and damage mods.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.07.04 20:15:00 - [10] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Looks ** and stupidly favored towards the shorter ranged bullethoses. 1% DPS per 1m of range? That's batshit insane. Maybe .25% per 1m would be reasonable, but a weapon doing 25% more DPS with only a 25m penalty? Jeez... Not to mention that it throws Rifle vs Everything Else balance out the airlock, with the Everything Else heavily in favor. Goddamn, someone makes a pretty but **** graph and this community goes wild with praise... Thank you for your constructive and useful criticism! Tales will be told and songs will be sung of how useful your input has been to this conversation! Please tell me more what a genius I am while I get another bucket. without insults... he has a point. your dps vs range cant be 1% for 1m. if everyone was using the same suit then sure, you could balance that way, but weve got suits that with less eHP than others that also cant run damage mods freely like other suits. none of your proposal is balanced considering the different suits and racial stats or slot layouts. 20m difference is not a realistic representation between a cqc weapon and a long range weapon lol, and certainly not worth 200 dps. you can run gal assault with a dampener and never even show up on scan and be inside AR optimal range already. not my fault everyone only knows how to stack armor and damage mods. It's what we call "A start point" The details of the actual numbers? I leave that to the devs. It's the creation of a curve that everyone can understand clearly that is the important part. I'm amazed that people seem to think that a proposal includes the caveat: YOU MUST USE THESE NUMBERS AS FINAL!!! The guideline is more important. it provides a suggestion on how to look at the range/DPS curve. That was what people were agreeing with, not my arbitrary take on %/meter. its not that i want your numbers as final. its that i dont want the devs being lazy and using your numbers as final lol. they have a tendency for copy and paste and then "rebalancing" 6 months later after collecting "sufficient data" im not sure we even need a curve actually. if the suits actually were tailored to run the weapons theyre meant to run, then we wouldnt have the issues we have. if anything id rather see suit builds with corresponding suit bonuses that arent blanket bonuses but that actually serve a purpose. the goal is that each suit serves a purpose. armor plate defense or armor rep defense? the suit should make it obvious and viable to one specifically along with a weapon. AR or ScR? the bonus would tell you which weapon the suit was designed for along with suit stats to make it possible. AR range too short? then make the gal assault have a higher base sprint speed, some native profile dampening to get under suit passive scans, and a damage bonus to ARs for wrecking faces once you arrive at your target. give it an armor rep bonus thats functional and capable of actually keeping the player alive just as good as if he where wearing plates. now youve got a gal assault that does his job and makes his AR do work that no one else can. this is the kind of design we need man. for every suit a focused purpose. from the weapons to the modules. from the top, down man. its like making a puzzle... you print the pic on the puzzle first and then you cut it into pieces. the bullshit we've beeen doing is like making the puzzle backwards, cutting up peices and then trying to paint the picture onto each piece and hoping it looks right after we're done. im amazed no one else is tired of it man.

DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.07.04 20:25:00 - [11] - Quote and let me give credit where it's due. you do great work man. youve done tons for the community and i hope you continue despite the resistance. if you get the time, think about what I wrote. its a whole lot easier to balance suits and weapons when you know what the overall design is going to look like.