DUST Search - Vehicle shields are... weird

Vulpes Dolosus wrote:

For dropship/ADS fits, I suggest these:

Myron:

Highs: Complex Heavy Extender, 2x Complex Light Shield Booster, Complex AB (iirc, maybe only enh will fit)
Lows: 2x Complex PG
Turrets: XT Missile

With most shield vehicles, lows are only used for fitting mods. This DS is very tanky thanks to the recent base up buff and the boosters come back very quickly with skills. I chose only 1 turret because using two is impractical, since the only way to use them is either facing forward (where both turrets may hit the ship) or directly over them (blocking your view and making you an easy target/hindering your escape). You can replace one of the boosters for an MCRU if you wish.

Python:

Highs: Basic Heavy Extender, Complex Light Extender, Complex AB
Lows: Complex AB
Turret: XT Missile

This was the fit I ran since forever really, though they now I have a super secret fit ;). I don't like hardener fits because they sacrifice too much passive hp and don't give enough hp to survive head to head with AV. Your tactics should be to orbit out as far as you can still shoot and of you start taking damage just fly off and repair (which happens super fast).

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Scheneighnay McBob Tribal Liberation Force Paramilitary 6	Posted - 2015.05.23 02:09:00 - [1] - Quote Today, I bought a respec, and put everything into minmatar scouts, and vehicles- almost entirely consisting of dropships. Caldari dropships to be precise. Me doing this means that within the next week, CCP will announce minmatar and amarr vehicles, as well as a free respec with that, but that's beside the point. The point is, looking at all the stats, vehicle modules are really messed up. Let's begin with the simplest point to make: shield regulators- At the basic level, these fickers suck up 93 CPU and 283 PG. That is a HEFTY chunk of PG for anything but an HAV. While still doable on a dropship, it'll be much easier just to throw a light shield booster on and be done with it. I'm not sure how you can fit one without gimping the rest of the dropship. Now let's look at the oddity that is the shield extender: Throwing these 2 out there immediately, Basic Heavy Shield extender: 689 HP 5% recharge delay penalty, 172 CPU, 293 PG, 9,000 ISK Complex Light Shield extender: 480 HP, 5% recharge delay penalty, 209 CPU, 153 PG, 23,025 ISK What in the actual ****? These things aren't even on the same page! Light shield extenders are CPU heavy, Heavy shield extenders are PG heavy, and for (roughly) the same fitting cost, the Basic Heavy Shield extender has 200 more HP, for well over half the cost, and far lower requirements! Finally, WTF do I put on my dropship? Heavy or light modules? At least at one point in time, there were medium armor plates for vehicles, but that no longer exists. Just going the hardener route for now. I'm not entirely sure how to improve the system, just pointing out that things are getting confusing in the vehicle world with CCP's laser-focus on HAV balance. The only thing I can think of is to standardize the fitting stats of all sizes of vehicle, and simply have have HP modules work with increasing eHP by a percentage, rather than a flat number. Some details can be ignored
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1	Posted - 2015.05.23 03:19:00 - [2] - Quote Welcome to the world of vehicles. Please leave logic by the door to collect on your way out! Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.05.23 14:10:00 - [3] - Quote The only light and heavy modules that make sense as being separated are the shield boosters, but that's mostly because fitting a heavy shield booster is madness on anything other than a protato tank... And even then you're pretty much better off not doing it, unless you like going mad when it fails to work. I think we should consider at least merging the light and heavy armour/shield extenders, as currently it's pretty pointless to fit a basic/adv light extender, complex armour is vaguely viable, but I'm sure we could live without it, if it meant easier balancing of vehicle hp around a single set of hp modules.
Harpyja 2	Posted - 2015.05.23 14:12:00 - [4] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Welcome to the world of vehicles. Please leave logic by the door to collect on your way out! Yeah. Light shield boosters cost about as much fitting as light shield extenders, while heavy shield boosters cost about twice as much fitting as heavy shield extenders, IIRC. Shield hardeners costing an arm and a leg to fit compared to armor hardeners. Fitting upgrades required for a decent shield tank whereas you can get a decent armor tank without fitting upgrades. "By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32
Scheneighnay McBob Tribal Liberation Force Paramilitary 6	Posted - 2015.05.23 14:14:00 - [5] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: The only light and heavy modules that make sense as being separated are the shield boosters, but that's mostly because fitting a heavy shield booster is madness on anything other than a protato tank... And even then you're pretty much better off not doing it, unless you like going mad when it fails to work. I think we should consider at least merging the light and heavy armour/shield extenders, as currently it's pretty pointless to fit a basic/adv light extender, complex armour is vaguely viable, but I'm sure we could live without it, if it meant easier balancing of vehicle hp around a single set of hp modules. I would just throw heavy extenders/plates on LAVs anyway, because light ones don't make a difference. Some details can be ignored
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.05.23 14:16:00 - [6] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: I would just throw heavy extenders/plates on LAVs anyway, because light ones don't make a difference. I know right... 100 shields is hardly going to make a difference, even against a militia swarm launcher. Why they exist I do not know, lol.
Doc DDD TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 443	Posted - 2015.05.23 14:29:00 - [7] - Quote Vehicles and vehicle modules designed by people that don't play the game. People that think 5 shields equals 5 armor because 5=5 have turned this game into a joke.
The KTM DuKe Dead Man's Game 256	Posted - 2015.05.23 14:47:00 - [8] - Quote Doc DDD wrote: Vehicles and vehicle modules designed by people that don't play the game. People that think 5 shields equals 5 armor because 5=5 have turned this game into a joke. Shield hardner delay it s a joke, as soon as it becomes active your shield is aready gone Creator of "The last objective rule" in FW . Just another scrub in a D1ck corp.
Scheneighnay McBob Tribal Liberation Force Paramilitary 6	Posted - 2015.05.23 15:16:00 - [9] - Quote The KTM DuKe wrote: Doc DDD wrote: Vehicles and vehicle modules designed by people that don't play the game. People that think 5 shields equals 5 armor because 5=5 have turned this game into a joke. Shield hardner delay it s a joke, as soon as it becomes active your shield is aready gone Hardener delay was intended as a nerf to hardeners, so players need to harden before going into combat, instead of throwing them up as soon as the AV starts firing that them. Some details can be ignored
Scheneighnay McBob Tribal Liberation Force Paramilitary 6	Posted - 2015.05.23 15:17:00 - [10] - Quote Doc DDD wrote: Vehicles and vehicle modules designed by people that don't play the game. People that think 5 shields equals 5 armor because 5=5 have turned this game into a joke. If those people existed, shields would be OP again, because 5 shields are actually better than 5 armor. The majority of AV is anti-armor. Some details can be ignored

The KTM DuKe Dead Man's Game 258	Posted - 2015.05.23 16:57:00 - [11] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: The KTM DuKe wrote: Doc DDD wrote: Vehicles and vehicle modules designed by people that don't play the game. People that think 5 shields equals 5 armor because 5=5 have turned this game into a joke. Shield hardner delay it s a joke, as soon as it becomes active your shield is aready gone Hardener delay was intended as a nerf to hardeners, so players need to harden before going into combat, instead of throwing them up as soon as the AV starts firing that them. Do you play dust? Cuz 90% of swams are invisible and 1 guy with 2 flux nades and a plc can solo AV a gunlogi... Creator of "The last objective rule" in FW . Just another scrub in a D1ck corp.
Scheneighnay McBob Tribal Liberation Force Paramilitary 6	Posted - 2015.05.23 17:26:00 - [12] - Quote The KTM DuKe wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: The KTM DuKe wrote: Doc DDD wrote: Vehicles and vehicle modules designed by people that don't play the game. People that think 5 shields equals 5 armor because 5=5 have turned this game into a joke. Shield hardner delay it s a joke, as soon as it becomes active your shield is aready gone Hardener delay was intended as a nerf to hardeners, so players need to harden before going into combat, instead of throwing them up as soon as the AV starts firing that them. Do you play dust? Cuz 90% of swams are invisible and 1 guy with 2 flux nades and a plc can solo AV a gunlogi... 1. Just because you aren't looking where they're coming from doesn't mean swarms are invisible. In my nearly 3 years of Dust, I have never encountered invisible swarms. 2. If the gunnlogi driver is standard, stupid, and/or against a maxed out proto PLC, yeah. 3. You're missing the point entirely- CCP. WANTS. YOU. TO. HARDEN. BEFORE. AV. STARTS. FIRING. OR. EVEN. SHOWS. UP. Some details can be ignored
The KTM DuKe Dead Man's Game 258	Posted - 2015.05.23 17:45:00 - [13] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: The KTM DuKe wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: The KTM DuKe wrote: Doc DDD wrote: Vehicles and vehicle modules designed by people that don't play the game. People that think 5 shields equals 5 armor because 5=5 have turned this game into a joke. Shield hardner delay it s a joke, as soon as it becomes active your shield is aready gone Hardener delay was intended as a nerf to hardeners, so players need to harden before going into combat, instead of throwing them up as soon as the AV starts firing that them. Do you play dust? Cuz 90% of swams are invisible and 1 guy with 2 flux nades and a plc can solo AV a gunlogi... 1. Just because you aren't looking where they're coming from doesn't mean swarms are invisible. In my nearly 3 years of Dust, I have never encountered invisible swarms. 2. If the gunnlogi driver is standard, stupid, and/or against a maxed out proto PLC, yeah. 3. You're missing the point entirely- CCP. WANTS. YOU. TO. HARDEN. BEFORE. AV. STARTS. FIRING. OR. EVEN. SHOWS. UP. I m playng since 3 years and if someone swarm you from more than 75 metres you dont see them coming. We dont have proto tanks, just standard++ and 2 flux will kill a cv.0 as a c-1 gunlogi, it s about removing shields and 1-shot Creator of "The last objective rule" in FW . Just another scrub in a D1ck corp.
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.05.23 18:47:00 - [14] - Quote The KTM DuKe wrote: Do you play dust? Cuz 90% of swams are invisible and 1 guy with 2 flux nades and a plc can solo AV a gunlogi... True, but if a guy runs at your tank, it's a pretty safe bet they're getting into grenade range... Without the grenades the Gunni is fine to take out or run away from the scrub-launcher. Scheneighnay McBob wrote: In my nearly 3 years of Dust, I have never encountered invisible swarms. Probably because they're invisible?
Doc DDD TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 445	Posted - 2015.05.23 20:26:00 - [15] - Quote Call in gunlogi Sit in redline Activate 3 hardeners Drive out of redline for 10 seconds Drive back to redline Wait for last volley of swarms to hit the cover infront of you Be ecstatic blaster tank didn't follow you into redline Wait for hardeners to cycle Play dust for 10 more seconds while armor tanks are doing circles around the map
Doc DDD TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 445	Posted - 2015.05.23 20:31:00 - [16] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Doc DDD wrote: Vehicles and vehicle modules designed by people that don't play the game. People that think 5 shields equals 5 armor because 5=5 have turned this game into a joke. If those people existed, shields would be OP again, because 5 shields are actually better than 5 armor. The majority of AV is anti-armor. You have to be trolling +10% to armor does not mean armor should be 100% better than shields in every way +20% to armor does not mean armor should be 100% better than shields in every way Shields are garbage, armor tanks do everything a shield tank can do better as armor tanks can actually tank damage. Shield tanks are great at popping.
Scheneighnay McBob Tribal Liberation Force Paramilitary 6	Posted - 2015.05.23 20:59:00 - [17] - Quote Doc DDD wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Doc DDD wrote: Vehicles and vehicle modules designed by people that don't play the game. People that think 5 shields equals 5 armor because 5=5 have turned this game into a joke. If those people existed, shields would be OP again, because 5 shields are actually better than 5 armor. The majority of AV is anti-armor. You have to be trolling +10% to armor does not mean armor should be 100% better than shields in every way +20% to armor does not mean armor should be 100% better than shields in every way Shields are garbage, armor tanks do everything a shield tank can do better as armor tanks can actually tank damage. Shield tanks are great at popping. If you've seen tanks in the Codex build, you would know what you're talking about. CCP has gone through a lot of work to make armor HAVs better at tanking damage than shield HAVs, because that's what they're supposed to do. In Codex, whoever had initially designed vehicles made gallente and caldari vehicles, as well as their modules, essentially equal. As a result, shield HAVs were far better at everything than armor HAVs were at the time. Some details can be ignored
Scheneighnay McBob Tribal Liberation Force Paramilitary 6	Posted - 2015.05.23 21:01:00 - [18] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: The KTM DuKe wrote: Do you play dust? Cuz 90% of swams are invisible and 1 guy with 2 flux nades and a plc can solo AV a gunlogi... True, but if a guy runs at your tank, it's a pretty safe bet they're getting into grenade range... Without the grenades the Gunni is fine to take out or run away from the scrub-launcher. Scheneighnay McBob wrote: In my nearly 3 years of Dust, I have never encountered invisible swarms. Probably because they're invisible? I said I never ENCOUNTERED them. I intentionally avoided using the word "seen" because I knew you would try saying that, but apparently you can't read. I. Have. Never. Been. Hit. By. Swarms. That. Didn't. Render. All swarms that have hit me have either come from behind me, or I saw them coming. Some details can be ignored
The KTM DuKe Dead Man's Game 260	Posted - 2015.05.23 21:07:00 - [19] - Quote Doc DDD wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Doc DDD wrote: Vehicles and vehicle modules designed by people that don't play the game. People that think 5 shields equals 5 armor because 5=5 have turned this game into a joke. If those people existed, shields would be OP again, because 5 shields are actually better than 5 armor. The majority of AV is anti-armor. You have to be trolling +10% to armor does not mean armor should be 100% better than shields in every way +20% to armor does not mean armor should be 100% better than shields in every way Shields are garbage, armor tanks do everything a shield tank can do better as armor tanks can actually tank damage. Shield tanks are great at popping. I missed our fights :) Creator of "The last objective rule" in FW . Just another scrub in a D1ck corp.
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. RUST415 3	Posted - 2015.05.23 21:42:00 - [20] - Quote For dropship/ADS fits, I suggest these: Myron: Highs: Complex Heavy Extender, 2x Complex Light Shield Booster, Complex AB (iirc, maybe only enh will fit) Lows: 2x Complex PG Turrets: XT Missile With most shield vehicles, lows are only used for fitting mods. This DS is very tanky thanks to the recent base up buff and the boosters come back very quickly with skills. I chose only 1 turret because using two is impractical, since the only way to use them is either facing forward (where both turrets may hit the ship) or directly over them (blocking your view and making you an easy target/hindering your escape). You can replace one of the boosters for an MCRU if you wish. Python: Highs: Basic Heavy Extender, Complex Light Extender, Complex AB Lows: Complex AB Turret: XT Missile This was the fit I ran since forever really, though they now I have a super secret fit ;). I don't like hardener fits because they sacrifice too much passive hp and don't give enough hp to survive head to head with AV. Your tactics should be to orbit out as far as you can still shoot and of you start taking damage just fly off and repair (which happens super fast). Dust is there! I was real! Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~

Scheneighnay McBob Tribal Liberation Force Paramilitary 6	Posted - 2015.05.23 22:04:00 - [21] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: For dropship/ADS fits, I suggest these: Myron: Highs: Complex Heavy Extender, 2x Complex Light Shield Booster, Complex AB (iirc, maybe only enh will fit) Lows: 2x Complex PG Turrets: XT Missile With most shield vehicles, lows are only used for fitting mods. This DS is very tanky thanks to the recent base up buff and the boosters come back very quickly with skills. I chose only 1 turret because using two is impractical, since the only way to use them is either facing forward (where both turrets may hit the ship) or directly over them (blocking your view and making you an easy target/hindering your escape). You can replace one of the boosters for an MCRU if you wish. Python: Highs: Basic Heavy Extender, Complex Light Extender, Complex AB Lows: Complex AB Turret: XT Missile This was the fit I ran since forever really, though they now I have a super secret fit ;). I don't like hardener fits because they sacrifice too much passive hp and don't give enough hp to survive head to head with AV. Your tactics should be to orbit out as far as you can still shoot and of you start taking damage just fly off and repair (which happens super fast). Call me a masochist, but I fit mCRUs on everything but my rail HAVs. That being said, if you shoot down my dropships, it's a guaranteed 6 kills. I'll jump out, and there will be 6 blueberries AFKing inside Some details can be ignored
Scheneighnay McBob Tribal Liberation Force Paramilitary 6	Posted - 2015.05.23 22:32:00 - [22] - Quote Never trust a Nullarbor myron. Not only is the camera weirdly zoomed in with it, but it did a backflip by itself and crushed a random red in the process. Update: apparently, despite being stuck upside down the rest of the match, I still have it. Meaning the dumbass blueberry gunner (who would rather shoot at inanimate objects than the enemy team) refused to leave it. Some details can be ignored
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.05.24 16:16:00 - [23] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: In my nearly 3 years of Dust, I have never encountered invisible swarms. Probably because they're invisible? I said I never ENCOUNTERED them. I intentionally avoided using the word "seen" because I knew you would try saying that, but apparently you can't read. I. Have. Never. Been. Hit. By. Swarms. That. Didn't. Render. Can't. Take. A. Joke... Also, you were kind of a **** to the guy who pointed out invisible swarms, like you think it's down to people not looking the right direction... I can tell you on many occasions (range be damned, it's happened at both distance and close up) I've stared into the eyes of the guy firing them, watched him fire them and just sat back waiting for the inevitable sound of it hitting... It's not even just when they hit my vehicle, you can also see the explosions on terrain when you're hiding from them. Most people aren't dumb enough to just assume one way or the other, some of us test these things to make sure we're not deranged.
Scheneighnay McBob Tribal Liberation Force Paramilitary 6	Posted - 2015.05.24 16:31:00 - [24] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: In my nearly 3 years of Dust, I have never encountered invisible swarms. Probably because they're invisible? I said I never ENCOUNTERED them. I intentionally avoided using the word "seen" because I knew you would try saying that, but apparently you can't read. I. Have. Never. Been. Hit. By. Swarms. That. Didn't. Render. Can't. Take. A. Joke... Also, you were kind of a ** to the guy who pointed out invisible swarms, like you think it's down to people not looking the right direction... I can tell you on many occasions (range be damned, it's happened at both distance and close up) I've stared into the eyes of the guy firing them, watched him fire them and just sat back waiting for the inevitable sound of it hitting... It's not even just when they hit my vehicle, you can also see the explosions on terrain when you're hiding from them. Most people aren't dumb enough to just assume one way or the other, some of us test these things to make sure we're not deranged. And I'm saying that if such a thing would occur, I would have noticed it before; with that, it's been my belief that people are making up as an excuse. But then again, apparently my PS3 is ***** magical, because I don't get half the performance issues so many other players claim to be getting. The "Gallente lag facility" for instance: I almost never have the terrible framerate there that everyone else claims to have. Even had my squad commenting on the "terrible framerate" on the map we were currently on, and Dust was still running perfectly smoothly for me. Some details can be ignored
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 10	Posted - 2015.05.24 16:48:00 - [25] - Quote The entire balance is completely off because on one end, you have CCP making weapons so they are effective against HAV and completely forgetting that lighter vehicles like LAVs and Dropships exist and then you have weapons that perform the same way against any target like tank and swarms. I would have much prefered a resistance based (as in more native resist as the vehicle's hull gets beefier) and object oriented AV weapon mechanic as opposed to....what ever this mess is now. To some this new system is seen as "almost there" while in shortsight it may seem that way if you only look at tanks but later down the line as we progress this current state, even if it gets "fixed" this system might very well fall down on itself yet again. Sgt Kirk's Gallente Propaganda Youtube Channel


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