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Marcus Stormfire
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
92
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Posted - 2015.05.14 15:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
In another thread Manboar Thunder Fist brought up an idea that I think deserves its own thread and I would like to expand on it. I am sure everyone else here has thought about something similar but here it goes.
manboar thunder fist wrote:what's always bugged me is how the incubus is fitted with what seems comparable to a light machine gun, whereas one would assume that an aerial assault vehicle would at least have some sort of anti infantry cannon that fires rapid and explosive/shrapnel shells.. to me, i think this has gone on long enough and really a minmatar flak cannon is in order.
while some of you may still have faith in the old girl, i don't think blasters in their current build will ever be viable on a dropship that can get AV grenaded to death with a hop skip and a merry christmas to you sir.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2774783#post2774783
-I propose a new small turret should be added to the game. The basic premise is that this weapon is a strafing weapon that is accurate when the pitch of the ADS moves and becomes increasingly inaccurate when the Yaw and Roll are playing a part.
This opens up a whole new gameplay option for ADS pilots other than hover over an area, shoot stuff with missiles, run away when swarms are out.
How it will be used: (assuming no horrendously hilarious bugs emerge  )
-ADS pilot swings wide circling the map. Enemies are moving along a road or entrenched. The ADS pilot makes a gun run at speed. Yaw and roll are minimal. ADS pilot pitches down and lights up the ground in a straight line until he overheats or runs out of ammo.
Limitations:
-The Minmatar weapon is accurate only when you are doing a strafe. Dispersion increases drastically if there is a side to side movement or any rolling.
Pro's:
-Opens up a whole new way to play the game as an ADS pilot. Adds a racial weapon system for the Minmatar. Adds the tactical flexibility a gun run provides. Gives ADS pilots a new area of skill they can work on. Eye candy.
Cons:
-I am certain people will find some ingenious ways to try and break this weapon thus leading to patches. OP as a stationary platform? OP in general?
Possible Stats:
Minmatar 30mm Autocannon
*Can only be mounted to the forward gun of an ADS
Meta level 1
Fire Mode Full Auto
Damage 40 >
Fire Interval .10s > (Less damage for more accuracy)
Clip Size 120
Max Ammo 1400
Heat Cost per second 30 > ( More heat buildup to reduce spam and promote tactical gameplay)
PG 165 >
CPU 42 > Keeping with Minmatar philosophy of Moar Power to the Gunz!!1!! Much higher PG than CPU
(DS pilots will have to chime in on the fitting requirements since I am not sure how this will affect the rest of the fitting.)
Other thoughts:
-Small amount of splash damage with small Splash range?
-Gun strafe accuracy max 2m (Full damage) ? Max Dispersion 10m ?
-I leave this idea to everyone to think about, discuss, shred, or improve or to disappear into Rattati's memory hole.
-Marcus
-I don't always kill Mercs with a sidearm, But when I do I use militia.
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richiesutie 2
The Rainbow Effect
1023
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Posted - 2015.05.14 18:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
how about increasing the pg requirements whilst increasing its power further so it becomes perfect for hit and run but the high pg requirement would mean the ads would have to sacrifice tank -im talking very high pg ~heavy shield extender
it would add a new play style to drop ships.
compilation of Patch/build notes
Check it out! :)
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Lightning35 Delta514
48TH SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCE
398
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Posted - 2015.05.14 18:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
You want a gunner that acts as a ac-130 spectres? Yes please.
48th Special Operations Force.
Twitter- @48SOF
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Godin Thekiller
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
3176
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Posted - 2015.05.14 19:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
Lightning35 Delta514 wrote:You want a gunner that acts as a ac-130 spectres? Yes please.
See, those things are commonly used against to pretty much one shot armor, which this wouldn't do, because you know, small turret.
Top lel
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Godin Thekiller
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
3176
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Posted - 2015.05.14 19:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
This is a decent idea (although I would've gone with burst fire), but it doesn't solve the origional problem of blasters and therefore Gal ADS's main armament still being poor for engaging intended targets (infantry).
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1527
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Posted - 2015.05.14 19:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
Want.
Frankly, we need the ability to strafe, since we haven't got the capacity to resist AV for anything approaching a long time. DSs are supposed to be fast in/fast out, but damage application at the moment requires long in/fast out.
Here are some suggested alternate turrets that could help DSs, ADSs particularly, perform strafing roles: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=184362&find=unread
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Vulpes Dolosus
Molon Labe.
RUST415
3291
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Posted - 2015.05.14 20:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
I think this could be done by changing some parameters on blasters:
>Tighten dispersion and add decreasing accuracy with prolonged fire
>Increase range
>Add short optimal but long falloff (typical of projectile weapons)
>Adjust heat buildup, ammo, etc. (I say high clip size, high RoF, but long reload times)
>Recolour blaster modle to brown/rust-ish
>Change sound to this.
This would be nice on dropships, but I don't know how it would affect LAVs or tanks.
Dust is there! I was real!
Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
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Marcus Stormfire
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
94
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Posted - 2015.05.14 21:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
richiesutie 2 wrote:how about increasing the pg requirements whilst increasing its power further so it becomes perfect for hit and run but the high pg requirement would mean the ads would have to sacrifice tank -im talking very high pg ~heavy shield extender
it would add a new play style to drop ships.
I think that is a viable idea. You want the pilot to sacrifice something to gain something. Perhaps increase PG to 200 for Meta 1? That way the increase does not completely gimp the fit but it might make it a bit harder to fit the tank the person wants without the skills.
- The damage, ROF, and Heat buildup I feel should be tweaked to better fit what this weapon system is meant to do. By reducing the damage output I am hoping it will prevent this from becoming a OHOK weapon for anyone caught in it's line. It should be formidable to the point where if a scout gets caught in the run then splat or if he is lucky gtfo. If a medium/ heavy gets caught then it just scares the crap out of them or splat if they stand still too long. The Pilot I feel needs to work to get the kills and the skilled pilots should feel satisfaction in their own skill when they get a good run in. Perhaps decrease the heat buildup for longer bursts?
Lightning35 Delta514 wrote:You want a gunner that acts as a ac-130 spectres? Yes please.
I like the way you think. I was however going more to the A-10 Warthog
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33teK7L4DM4 ( SFW This is a training video, not actual war footage )
Godin Thekiller wrote:This is a decent idea (although I would've gone with burst fire), but it doesn't solve the origional problem of blasters and therefore Gal ADS's main armament still being poor for engaging intended targets (infantry).
I personally think that is a much better idea than Full auto. Keeps it a tactical use weapon while possibly reducing bullet spam. Will update OP.
quote=Vulpes Dolosus] I think this could be done by changing some parameters on blasters:
>Tighten dispersion and add decreasing accuracy with prolonged fire
>Increase range
>Add short optimal but long falloff (typical of projectile weapons)
>Adjust heat buildup, ammo, etc. (I say high clip size, high RoF, but long reload times)
>Recolour blaster modle to brown/rust-ish
>Change sound to this.
This would be nice on dropships, but I don't know how it would affect LAVs or tanks.[/quote]
Would probably be the easiest way to go about it until CCP puts the resources in fleshing out a Minmatar weapon. The reason I was thinking the current specs I posted is because I was attempting to keep this gun variant as an ADS gun type only. Due to it possibly being op as hell if it were on a stationary ground vehicle.
-Marcus
-I don't always kill Mercs with a sidearm, But when I do I use militia.
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Dead Cavino
Lunatic.High
88
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Posted - 2015.05.15 02:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
Would need a Minmatar ADS to go along with it.
I don't like two-legged things.
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Godin Thekiller
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
3177
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Posted - 2015.05.15 03:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
pause: no turret of any kind should be restricted to a certain vehicle. ADS's don't get AC's just for themselves.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
19036
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Posted - 2015.05.15 04:06:00 -
[11] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:pause: no turret of any kind should be restricted to a certain vehicle. ADS's don't get AC's just for themselves.
Not like an ADS could be equipped with an Artillery Turret? To be fair though if it's a small turret it would likely end up being ground vehicle equippable.
"Crush all who complain!"
- Arkena Wyrnspire
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Marcus Stormfire
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
97
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Posted - 2015.05.15 16:38:00 -
[12] - Quote
The main thing I am concerned about is that the weapon will be overpowered on a ground vehicle when it is balanced for a Dropship. I agree that even though I would like to see it an ADS only weapon, that it will end up being on all vehicles.
From what I have seen in this thread, perhaps these should be the stats we should talk about and tweak
- Length of Burst Fire
- Rounds per burst
- Heat buildup.
- Damage per round
Perhaps the length of burst can be around 1sec at lets say 50 rounds a burst. The damage should be toned down to around 14 per shot? bringing about ~667 damage per burst, ~2,000 total damage if all rounds hit (which overheats the gun if they want full damage potential). Make for higher heat buildup to prevent spam (perhaps 3 burst before overheat?
-With the above Perhaps we increase the magazine size to 150, decrease capacity to 1200. Gives you three burst with overheat on the third burst, and 8 reloads. The magazine is empty and over heat to deal with (To hopefully prevent spam) While the smart gunner does two bursts, cools down, third burst and reloads. (Similar to railgun overheat mechanics?)
-Concerns: Will it ruin a Heavy's day? Will it be good for an HAV or LAV to have something to counter the Heavy based AV? Or will it prove to be overpowered against all infantry. Perhaps have it highly accurate when stationary with major dispersion as the vehicle or turret moves.
-I hope to see an ADS pilot lining up a run. Firing three bursts in a strafe, overheat, circle around and reload then make another run. Balancing mechanic being the overheat, the need to hit a supply depot to replenish ammunition more than other weapon variants, and the dispersion with Roll and Yaw movements.
- LAV's are fairly weak so they might tend to die before the full potential of this turret can be used.
-The HAV I think would roll up on a point. Use it's main gun to do whatever, Small turrets must line up an accurate shot similar to using the rail gun. Dispersion increases as the vehicle or turret moves.
-More Concerns: Super OP with blaster tanks? Perhaps even higher PG requirements are needed to mitigate this?
-Marcus
-I don't always kill Mercs with a sidearm, But when I do I use militia.
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Kaeru Nayiri
Ready to Play
1197
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Posted - 2015.05.15 21:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
Allowing myself to dream a little:
What I've ALWAYS wanted out of a Minmatar autocannon in dust is a very large caliber, slow firing cannon with deep deep sound. The firing of it would reverse the thrust of the dropship firing it.
In other words, if you fire it while STATIONARY, it would make you slowly gain momentum backwards. And if you used it while moving forward you could fire it to come to a stop.
If mounted on a side gun, it would actually push the ship to strafe to one side, forcing the pilot to dip the gunner towards the ground while they fire, or accept the new sideways momentum.
This would be super fun, and actually help aiming a bit as the mechanic counter acts the unwanted movement of the ship when you aim forward, and allows you to point a gunner towards the ground without moving as much.
My suggestion for replacing the blaster turret (so it doesn't overlap with the autocannon) can be found here:
Quote:https://youtu.be/4-_TupecK9A?t=40
(don't bother with his audio)
It's got a good spread, about 7 or 8 pellets, each with a little splash. I am not suggesting that it work on other vehicles, mind you, this is just an example of what it would look like functionally in terms of:
- rate of fire
- number of pellets
- spread
- splash damage
Retune what we see in that video for air to ground anti-infantry, and we will have something that will give pilots an honest choice between missiles or plasma.
Know what cannot be known.
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Kaeru Nayiri
Ready to Play
1197
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Posted - 2015.05.15 21:51:00 -
[14] - Quote
Pipe dream aside,
@ the OP,
I think you are on the right track while trying to purpose guns for strafing runs. Currently all hitscan small turrets suck when you are moving. A weapon with high alpha and high splash, that is unusable while you are standing still would be really cool.
(Part of the reason LAVs and Tanks have much higher success with small rails and small blasters)
Know what cannot be known.
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PLAYSTTION
Corrosive Synergy
Rise Of Legion.
1400
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Posted - 2015.05.15 22:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
We need a working full auto turret for ADS and this would work good. But accuracy is a problem for all ADS guns and the way this gun is designed will make this hard to get direct hits. So I suggest 30mm explosive tipped rounds. Basically mini flay lock rounds with a very tight splash radius and half normal damage. So hitting 5-30 rounds right around your target would kill them.
Gassault Galogi Galsent
Open Beta Vet - 43 mil sp
Director of Corrosive Synergy
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Godin Thekiller
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
3178
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Posted - 2015.05.16 03:27:00 -
[16] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:pause: no turret of any kind should be restricted to a certain vehicle. ADS's don't get AC's just for themselves. Not like an ADS could be equipped with an Artillery Turret and effectively use it...... To be fair though if it's a small turret it would likely end up being ground vehicle equippable.
A small arty will likely be something akin to a OP MD, so it probably could be.
Top lel
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Marcus Stormfire
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
101
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Posted - 2015.05.19 16:12:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ah yes I know it is a pipe dream, but we can all still dream.
I was toying with the idea of Explosive rounds with a tight splash radius however, if this turret is going to be on all vehicles I can see that getting very overpowered. Imagine an assault mass driver going at 20x the speed with less damage. I suspect that it will not only annihilate tight groups but it will lag the hell out of the match. So an adjustment to dispersion might be friendlier to the PS3 Hardware.
- That was why I was thinking about straight line accuracy with the weapon and put it in a category of its own (ADS only weapon)
- Two to Three Meter dispersion during the run I think will give you enough of a chance to hit things while not making it impossible to dish out damage.
-Perhaps take the Assault HMG as a model system. Inverted dispersion during the run? Where the balance is that you need to actually line up your shots and not spam like you do with an AOE weapon. (Gives more use to First Person Mode)
-Marcus
-I don't always kill Mercs with a sidearm, But when I do I use militia.
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