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Talos Vagheitan
Ancient Exiles.
1225
   |
Posted - 2015.05.09 23:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
What does everything think?
Is APEX customization good for Dust, and if so, are we doing it properly?
The Role of Apex Suits
What is the main benefit to having them in Dust? To me, they served 2 purposes.
1.) Provide a viable option to poor players in pubs while not being OP
2.) Provide a standardized faction suit for FW. I was looking forward to seeing these become common in FW due to FW not paying out ISK. I think the increased racial parity would be great for FW: When I'm playing against Amarr, I want to see mostly Amarr suits and weapons on the other team. Pubs can be the hodge-podge of mercs slapping together all the crazy combos they want, where FW would look much more like the two factions at war with each other, is how I've always imagined it anyways.
Customization of the APEX suits erases benefit number 2, which is unfortunate. This game has under-performed in the immersion and lore departments, and I was looking forward to having FW feel more like a war between the factions.
For that reason I propose limited customization
Limited Customization
Not every part of the suit should be customizable. For example, weapons should only be exchangeable with weapons of the same factions. No race-mixing weapons. Equipment and modules could be mixed due to the imbalance of racial equipment.
This gives players limited options, and still encourages racial parity.
Who cares what some sniper has to say.
**--CCP, let's push for the license of Dust/Legion on both current Gen consoles-
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LOL KILLZ
LulKlz
63
|
Posted - 2015.05.09 23:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
But what happens when your Apex suit weapons get hit with the nerf hammer like my ScR is fixing to be? Do I go get another one?
CEO of LulKlz/ chat channel LulKlz, code 0000 <--- numbers
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Talos Vagheitan
Ancient Exiles.
1225
|
Posted - 2015.05.09 23:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
LOL KILLZ wrote:But what happens when your Apex suit weapons get hit with the nerf hammer like my ScR is fixing to be? Do I go get another one?
That's the nature of Dust, anyone's main weapon could get nerfed at any time. Just the way she goes.... :P
But what I would propose is having any weapon from your faction available as an option on your suit.
So for example:
If you have Apex Amarr Assault, you could fit your suit with ScR, AscR, or Lazor, free of charge/
Who cares what some sniper has to say.
**--CCP, let's push for the license of Dust/Legion on both current Gen consoles-
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el OPERATOR
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1092
|
Posted - 2015.05.09 23:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
Based on my forum readings on the topic I think I'm in a minority opinion that changing modules on APEX bpos is a bad idea since their intent was supposed to be #1. The idea a new player who'll stick for the long haul could aur themselves a "proto" and not have to worry so much about going isk negative while they trained, learned and skilled themselves up fully seemed beneficial and based on their popularity was.
With the ability now to use the frame as a proto-bpo akin to my std-class dragonflys, even with some still being tweaked fitting restrictions, I don't see that benefit being as such, I see a bpo that in time will just bring the playerbase back full-circle to stompers take all.
#2 I think if FW is going to be like that then the natural progression would ultimately lead to MM priorities if not outright caps or exclusions on queing FW matches based on clone race ie. Gal could not queue Cal, Min could not queue Amarr etc. I understand these are the Faction Wars so purists abound but wonder whether a better alternative would be to expand the EVEside effects of our FW outcomes. And multiply those benefits if the progress is achieved by the greater percentage of factional loyal participants. In the longer term that could create an incentive for EVE pilots to contract Factional Mercs directly and upon those mercs' success reap greater benefits.
Open-Beta Vet.
Egbinger Original.
DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
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Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
9990
|
Posted - 2015.05.09 23:27:00 -
[5] - Quote
As I said in the other thread, APEX suits would be totally fine if they disappeared from your inventory once you became a veteran. I don't see any reason why a player should have their hand held all the way up to a customizable prototype BPO that is a permanent addition to your inventory. If you are having problems with ISK management that late in the game, then you learned nothing about a core concept of what makes this game different from any other FPS.
Now, considering Soldner completely broke me as a person with the startling realization that customizable APEX BPOs are pretty much -exactly- what CCP Z was going for with the whole "only BPO will be your dropsuit" thing; that is also an acceptable alternative -IF AND ONLY IF- that benefit applies TO ALL PLAYERS, not just those that pay or sit through dozens/hundreds of hours in FW.
You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
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Twelve Guage
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
570
|
Posted - 2015.05.09 23:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
LOL KILLZ wrote:But what happens when your Apex suit weapons get hit with the nerf hammer like my ScR is fixing to be? Do I go get another one?
I don't think I have ever heard of C.C.P. nerfing militia weapon and I do not think they are going to start doing it now.
The purpose of this suit was for C.C.P. to give new people away to compete with proto user while also letting the build up their skill.
The stander gear in the suits was there to keep the proto user from being able to run the suit for almost nothing with proto stuff on it.
Once C.C.P. gets back to this suits roots, which is only letting people run militia or stander gear on the suit there really should not be to many problems after that.
Sandwich maker LVL. 5
You've been like by Twelve Gauge = her grabbing your @$$.
My like button is back. C:<
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el OPERATOR
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1092
|
Posted - 2015.05.09 23:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
"Only bpo is your dropsuit" was a Legion thing tho right? Does CCPZ even work here anymore?
Open-Beta Vet.
Egbinger Original.
DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
11606
|
Posted - 2015.05.09 23:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
Talos Vagheitan wrote:What does everything think?
Is APEX customization good for Dust, and if so, are we doing it properly?
The Role of Apex Suits
What is the main benefit to having them in Dust? To me, they served 2 purposes.
1.) Provide a viable option to poor players in pubs while not being OP
2.) Provide a standardized faction suit for FW. I was looking forward to seeing these become common in FW due to FW not paying out ISK. I think the increased racial parity would be great for FW: When I'm playing against Amarr, I want to see mostly Amarr suits and weapons on the other team. Pubs can be the hodge-podge of mercs slapping together all the crazy combos they want, where FW would look much more like the two factions at war with each other, is how I've always imagined it anyways.
Customization of the APEX suits erases benefit number 2, which is unfortunate. This game has under-performed in the immersion and lore departments, and I was looking forward to having FW feel more like a war between the factions.
For that reason I propose limited customization
Limited Customization
Not every part of the suit should be customizable. For example, weapons should only be exchangeable with weapons of the same factions. No race-mixing weapons. Equipment and modules could be mixed due to the imbalance of racial equipment.
This gives players limited options, and still encourages racial parity.
I agree except for one thing.
The Republic 'Tiger' Scout, being the famous ninja knifer it's designed to be, needs CALDARI Nova Knives to utilize it's popular bonus. We don't have Minmatar-variant knives. Think about that for a bit.
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ToRgUe77
21
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Posted - 2015.05.10 00:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
No the purpose of apex was to supply a newer player with a fully stocked suit that never costs them any money, so that they can have an easier time learning on how to be a better logi,assault,scout etc. They can in theory learn with little to no risk financially,this was a good idea except they are fairly expensive and i dont know anyone who would spend $25-27 on a game that they arent even sure they will like.
I do like the changes made to the apex though, the ability to swap out the crappy acr on my min logi to an ar is nice. Sure you can fit proto and advanced weapons and gear on them but they will be gimped, and ultimately just end up as crappily fitted advanced suits with proto weapons. |
Twelve Guage
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
572
|
Posted - 2015.05.10 00:16:00 -
[10] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:
I agree except for one thing.
The Republic 'Tiger' Scout, being the famous ninja knifer it's designed to be, needs CALDARI Nova Knives to utilize it's popular bonus. We don't have Minmatar-variant knives. Think about that for a bit.
Damn bro I think your points been made.
I would also like to point out how it is you would suggest C.C.P. to implements this.
I'm a logi and I play all factions for the cheap equipment and to obtain that factions logi suit are you suggesting they
lock the factions suit to the faction you play or the faction you are. If it's the first that sucks because I like to run mass
driver exclusively on everything, if it's the second my profile is gallente and I play minmatar logi most of the time so
either way I'm in the gutter. I guess you could mean just locking the suits to their faction stuff but again I only like
running the mass driver so that would still suck to. I really do not like being limited in any of my choose when it comes
to my suits and how I run them. I am sure other people and C.C.P. feels the same way about that. I suggest letting
people run whatever they want on whatever suit they want so long as it stay true to the roots of the suit.
Sandwich maker LVL. 5
You've been like by Twelve Gauge = her grabbing your @$$.
My like button is back. C:<
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Happy Violentime
OMFGZOMBIESRUN
1198
|
Posted - 2015.05.10 00:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
If I had an Apex suit I'd love the changes I would be lolling so hard right now. |
Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
2740
|
Posted - 2015.05.10 00:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:As I said in the other thread, APEX suits would be totally fine if they disappeared from your inventory once you became a veteran. I don't see any reason why a player should have their hand held all the way up to a customizable prototype BPO that is a permanent addition to your inventory. If you are having problems with ISK management that late in the game, then you learned nothing about a core concept of what makes this game different from any other FPS.
Now, considering Soldner completely broke me as a person with the startling realization that customizable APEX BPOs are pretty much -exactly- what CCP Z was going for with the whole "only BPO will be your dropsuit" thing; that is also an acceptable alternative -IF AND ONLY IF- that benefit applies TO ALL PLAYERS, not just those that pay or sit through dozens/hundreds of hours in FW.
Fwiw, i see CCP Z's style in a lot of what Rattati has brought us - expect whatever the future brings to us re: Dust will be right in line with Z's original marketing model. CCP Z went quiet but behind the scenes nothing has changed.
PSN: RationalSpark
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Talos Vagheitan
Ancient Exiles.
1229
|
Posted - 2015.05.10 00:28:00 -
[13] - Quote
Twelve Guage wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:
I agree except for one thing.
The Republic 'Tiger' Scout, being the famous ninja knifer it's designed to be, needs CALDARI Nova Knives to utilize it's popular bonus. We don't have Minmatar-variant knives. Think about that for a bit.
Damn bro I think your points been made. I would also like to point out how it is you would suggest C.C.P. to implements this.
I'm a logi and I play all factions for the cheap equipment and to obtain that factions logi suit are you suggesting they
lock the factions suit to the faction you play or the faction you are. If it's the first that sucks because I like to run mass
driver exclusively on everything, if it's the second my profile is gallente and I play minmatar logi most of the time so
either way I'm in the gutter. I guess you could mean just locking the suits to their faction stuff but again I only like
running the mass driver so that would still suck to. I really do not like being limited in any of my choose when it comes
to my suits and how I run them. I am sure other people and C.C.P. feels the same way about that. I suggest letting
people run whatever they want on whatever suit they want so long as it stay true to the roots of the suit.
@Maken: As far as I understand, Nova knives are Min weapons even though Ishukone makes them. Just like the SMG, also a Min weapon.
@Twelve Guage. I never proposed locking people out of FW in any way. I only propose that APEX suits maintain their racial parity, and have limited customization.
From the sounds of things you like very diverse loadout, that's fine, but maybe the APEX suits aren't for you. Remember they were initially not to be customizable in any way.
Who cares what some sniper has to say.
**--CCP, let's push for the license of Dust/Legion on both current Gen consoles-
|
Twelve Guage
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
573
|
Posted - 2015.05.10 00:48:00 -
[14] - Quote
Talos Vagheitan wrote:Twelve Guage wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:
I agree except for one thing.
The Republic 'Tiger' Scout, being the famous ninja knifer it's designed to be, needs CALDARI Nova Knives to utilize it's popular bonus. We don't have Minmatar-variant knives. Think about that for a bit.
Damn bro I think your points been made. I would also like to point out how it is you would suggest C.C.P. to implements this.
I'm a logi and I play all factions for the cheap equipment and to obtain that factions logi suit are you suggesting they
lock the factions suit to the faction you play or the faction you are. If it's the first that sucks because I like to run mass
driver exclusively on everything, if it's the second my profile is gallente and I play minmatar logi most of the time so
either way I'm in the gutter. I guess you could mean just locking the suits to their faction stuff but again I only like
running the mass driver so that would still suck to. I really do not like being limited in any of my choose when it comes
to my suits and how I run them. I am sure other people and C.C.P. feels the same way about that. I suggest letting
people run whatever they want on whatever suit they want so long as it stay true to the roots of the suit.
@Maken: As far as I understand, Nova knives are Min weapons even though Ishukone makes them. Just like the SMG, also a Min weapon. @Twelve Guage. I never proposed locking people out of FW in any way. I only propose that APEX suits maintain their racial parity, and have limited customization. From the sounds of things you like very diverse loadout, that's fine, but maybe the APEX suits aren't for you. Remember they were initially not to be customizable in any way.
As far as I know nova knives we have now has always belong to the Caldari that has not changed.
Why can't the apex / loyalty suits be for me when they can out this was a dream come true for me. I am finally able to run a proto suits and not have to spend an arm and a leg doing it. Yes the equipment, modules and guns were gimped to hell (and by the way I don't have a problem with that) but I didn't care because I was able to do my job as a logi and still make isk. It gave me the ability to pull out proto equipment when I think my team needs it not before or after. Those suits are invaluable to me as a logi and even so more now that I can put different equipment on it as I see fit. I don't see eye to eye with everyone need to limited the apex / loyalty suits. By limiting people you are kind of also excluding them by saying you can play the game but only this way.
Sandwich maker LVL. 5
You've been like by Twelve Gauge = her grabbing your @$$.
My like button is back. C:<
|
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
11608
|
Posted - 2015.05.10 01:24:00 -
[15] - Quote
Talos Vagheitan wrote:@Maken: As far as I understand, Nova knives are Min weapons even though Ishukone makes them. Just like the SMG, also a Min weapon.
@Twelve Guage. I never proposed locking people out of FW in any way. I only propose that APEX suits maintain their racial parity, and have limited customization.
From the sounds of things you like very diverse loadout, that's fine, but maybe the APEX suits aren't for you. Remember they were initially not to be customizable in any way.
Actually, they are CALDARI by design. If they were Minmatar, they wouldn't look so clean and disciplined like the Caldari are and they sure as hell wouldn't be based on plasma. CCP originally intended to implement all the other racial knives such as the Amarr Gladius, Minmatar Prison Shivs, and a Gallente Hook Knife judging from the concept art they posted on past Fanfests. But that was under the leadership of CCP Jian before he was replaced by CCP Rouge and before CCP Rattati took over and priorities changed.
Until Rattati is able to acquire more resources and manpower, I don't think we'll be seeing the rest of the racial weapons for a while.
Eve Online Invite
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
8538
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Posted - 2015.05.10 01:29:00 -
[16] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Talos Vagheitan wrote:@Maken: As far as I understand, Nova knives are Min weapons even though Ishukone makes them. Just like the SMG, also a Min weapon.
@Twelve Guage. I never proposed locking people out of FW in any way. I only propose that APEX suits maintain their racial parity, and have limited customization.
From the sounds of things you like very diverse loadout, that's fine, but maybe the APEX suits aren't for you. Remember they were initially not to be customizable in any way. Actually, they are CALDARI by design. If they were Minmatar, they wouldn't look so clean and disciplined like the Caldari are and they sure as hell wouldn't be based on plasma. CCP originally intended to implement all the other racial knives such as the Amarr Gladius, Minmatar Prison Shivs, and a Gallente Hook Knife judging from the concept art they posted on past Fanfests. But that was under the leadership of CCP Jian before he was replaced by CCP Rouge and before CCP Rattati took over and priorities changed. Until Rattati is able to acquire more resources and manpower, I don't think we'll be seeing the rest of the racial weapons for a while.
There's also a PS3 memory limit they'd bumped into.
Did you realize that the gallente RDV has been in the game since day 1?
Memory constraints have prevented it's activation.
Hooray CCP's calculation spam!
There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!
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thor424
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
158
|
Posted - 2015.05.10 01:37:00 -
[17] - Quote
I think it's a good thing. If it means people are going to be using a better version of their free suit it's a win. They might even grow an even bigger pair and throw some ADV modules on it.
It's tiericidish.
Thor's Emporium
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
2004
|
Posted - 2015.05.10 01:45:00 -
[18] - Quote
NO.
The groundbreaking act of bringing prototype level suit BPOs was justified by the fact that they can not be edited!
That was how the community accepted their introduction.
In the opening weeks they were editable due to a bug. Even though it was not the end of the world, most agreed that it was too powerful and had to be fixed.
Looking at both sides of the coin.
Even Aurum one.
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el OPERATOR
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1094
|
Posted - 2015.05.10 01:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
ToRgUe77 wrote:No the purpose of apex was to supply a newer player with a fully stocked suit that never costs them any money, so that they can have an easier time learning on how to be a better logi,assault,scout etc. They can in theory learn with little to no risk financially,this was a good idea except they are fairly expensive and i dont know anyone who would spend $25-27 on a game that they arent even sure they will like.
I do like the changes made to the apex though, the ability to swap out the crappy acr on my min logi to an ar is nice. Sure you can fit proto and advanced weapons and gear on them but they will be gimped, and ultimately just end up as crappily fitted advanced suits with proto weapons.
Thats what the $5 packs are for. $20-25 invested in gets a new yet engaged player the "no isk-loss" option. Or some other fairly equitable aur option, boosters etc.
I personally, as an adult with an appreciation for arts and entertainment, when I see something worth paying for I pay. $20 is 3 cheap beers and tips. Not to justify in any way the cost structure here but just as an example of the disposability of disposable income.
Open-Beta Vet.
Egbinger Original.
DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
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FatalFlaw V1
ISK Faucet Industries
120
|
Posted - 2015.05.10 01:46:00 -
[20] - Quote
I bought a couple apex suits and ran with them for quite a while, but stopped using them for the most part when I realized an advanced suit with enhanced and complex mods still comes out with significantly better stats.
I was surprised to see they unlocked them for modding again, thinking it was too good to be true. Then I try and fit one and find the "Tiger" scout they somehow call Prototype..has 100 less CPU than Min adv scout. Not complaining because its nice being able to swap out mods and equipment, but it's still no proto fit.
Also...fck immersion. Custom fitting is what Dust and Eve are about. Knowing the exact weapon and equip every apex is using actually ruins that major aspect of the game. |
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Twelve Guage
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
573
|
Posted - 2015.05.10 01:51:00 -
[21] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:NO.
The groundbreaking act of bringing prototype level suit BPOs was justified by the fact that they can not be edited!
That was how the community accepted their introduction.
In the opening weeks they were editable due to a bug. Even though it was not the end of the world, most agreed that it was too powerful and had to be fixed.
I don't remember seeing the apex suits being editable was linked to some kind of bug.
In fact I'm pretty sure C.C.P. intended it with the last hot fix.
Sandwich maker LVL. 5
You've been like by Twelve Gauge = her grabbing your @$$.
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thor424
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
161
|
Posted - 2015.05.10 01:54:00 -
[22] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:NO.
The groundbreaking act of bringing prototype level suit BPOs was justified by the fact that they can not be edited!
That was how the community accepted their introduction.
In the opening weeks they were editable due to a bug. Even though it was not the end of the world, most agreed that it was too powerful and had to be fixed.
I hope you are the minority.
This is a big payout buff for the masses. It lets the cheap solo dudes who get rolled match after match put on something more competitive. New players only have to worry about skilling up the suit to take advantage of bonuses. They can prioritize more worthwhile core skills while having the same number of slots to work with as a vet.
Only a glutton for punishment at this stage of Dust would still be holding on to ideals that obviously aren't appealing in an asset loss FPS.
Thor's Emporium
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thor424
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
161
|
Posted - 2015.05.10 01:56:00 -
[23] - Quote
FatalFlaw V1 wrote:I bought a couple apex suits and ran with them for quite a while, but stopped using them for the most part when I realized an advanced suit with enhanced and complex mods still comes out with significantly better stats.
I was surprised to see they unlocked them for modding again, thinking it was too good to be true. Then I try and fit one and find the "Tiger" scout they somehow call Prototype..has 100 less CPU than Min adv scout. Not complaining because its nice being able to swap out mods and equipment, but it's still no proto fit.
Also...fck immersion. Custom fitting is what Dust and Eve are about. Knowing the exact weapon and equip every apex is using actually ruins that major aspect of the game.
Exactly, it's hard to watch people still clawing at principles that have held Dust back.
Thor's Emporium
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Sophie DV
Corrosive Synergy
Rise Of Legion.
63
|
Posted - 2015.05.10 01:59:00 -
[24] - Quote
Re: the APEX series of suits, i have two main concerns with them.
1) From what i can gather, they aren't equal in fitting capability to either their racial counterparts or the other tiers of gear of their type.
Some of them were fit more intensively than others, e.g. a basic kin-cat takes the PG of a complex armor plate, like on the minmatar assault, whereas the gallente assault looks to use mods that are less PG/CPU intensive. The result is that some racial suits are straight up better than others for fitting capacity.
Another example in the minmatar suits: the APEX assault and logi both have more fitting room than their STD counterparts, but the APEX scout has LESS base fitting room than the STD scout.
2) They are yet another step towards throwing Risk vs Reward out the window. After taking down someone in a beefy/blingy suit, i'd think, "Yay, that was tough and took a few tries to do, but eventually i was able to take them down", whereas now it's more along the lines of "yay. I took out a beefy suit, but it still took a few tries in my STD or ADV suit and his fit ends up being cheaper than mine".
I'm not saying i hate APEX suits, but i felt much more comfortable with them filling the middle ground as what i pictured as a "Super-Style MLT BPO (of your choice)"
Also, i was so excited about the idea of collecting STD suit BPO's, but with overly customizable apex suits, whats the point?
One feature i DID think was brilliant was suggested earlier in this thread: Why not have separate customization options for the APEX suits? The way i read it, you would go to the fitting window, try and modify a part, and instead of bringing up assets or market, it would bring up a few In-Suit BPO options for STD gear to use.
e.g. without needing another but an APEX BPO, i'd be able to switch the low slots to 2x STD reactive plates and 2x STD armor reppers. They would still be part of the same BPO, and not consume any other gear or require module BPOs.
Just my -ó2. |
Banjo Robertson
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
567
|
Posted - 2015.05.10 02:05:00 -
[25] - Quote
Personally I think that the CPU/PG of the suits either needs to be lowered so that you need like... 15% boost to each to even be able to use the suits, or CCP Rattatai just needs to lower the CPU/PG requirements of the items that are already equipped to cut another 15% off the total CPU/PG from the suits, so they are still customizable but not as customizable. |
Droopy Bawlz
myrtle beach leap frogz
2
|
Posted - 2015.05.10 02:08:00 -
[26] - Quote
Talos Vagheitan wrote:What does everything think?
Is APEX customization good for Dust, and if so, are we doing it properly?
The Role of Apex Suits
What is the main benefit to having them in Dust? To me, they served 2 purposes.
1.) Provide a viable option to poor players in pubs while not being OP
2.) Provide a standardized faction suit for FW. I was looking forward to seeing these become common in FW due to FW not paying out ISK. I think the increased racial parity would be great for FW: When I'm playing against Amarr, I want to see mostly Amarr suits and weapons on the other team. Pubs can be the hodge-podge of mercs slapping together all the crazy combos they want, where FW would look much more like the two factions at war with each other, is how I've always imagined it anyways.
Customization of the APEX suits erases benefit number 2, which is unfortunate. This game has under-performed in the immersion and lore departments, and I was looking forward to having FW feel more like a war between the factions.
For that reason I propose limited customization
Limited Customization
Not every part of the suit should be customizable. For example, weapons should only be exchangeable with weapons of the same factions. No race-mixing weapons. Equipment and modules could be mixed due to the imbalance of racial equipment.
This gives players limited options, and still encourages racial parity.
They are OP. I took the gallente commando apex and replaced both Light Weapons with Adv weapons. KLA PLC and GB9 breach AR or I can fit the Adv Tac Ar.
I also replaced the 2 plates with Enh reppers. And compact nano hive FTW. Carries6 active 2 with 10 & 2 CPU & PG
I also took the Gallente Apext Atlas Sentinel and put a Boundless HMG on it and upgraded the plates and reppers.
Total Isk cost was like 54K isk for the Sentinel. |
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
11608
|
Posted - 2015.05.10 02:13:00 -
[27] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:NO.
The groundbreaking act of bringing prototype level suit BPOs was justified by the fact that they can not be edited!
That was how the community accepted their introduction.
In the opening weeks they were editable due to a bug. Even though it was not the end of the world, most agreed that it was too powerful and had to be fixed.
For the most part, you are correct. But a lot of us in the community who accepted their introduction also accepted alternatives. I can't remember what those alternatives were exactly since it was so long ago, but I think it involved either meta-level locks or slashing the CPU/PG availability as we see now. I have been running faction warfare recently and I still haven't seen any APEX suits dominating the match. In fact, some of the APEX suits I see are still easy to kill as was made apparent by me being able to kill them effectively with a pair of ZN-28 Nova Knives. Even the sentinel APEX suits were easy for me to handle. They are just too gimped to be OP.
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Sicerly Yaw
Quantum times
144
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Posted - 2015.05.10 02:43:00 -
[28] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Talos Vagheitan wrote:What does everything think?
Is APEX customization good for Dust, and if so, are we doing it properly?
The Role of Apex Suits
What is the main benefit to having them in Dust? To me, they served 2 purposes.
1.) Provide a viable option to poor players in pubs while not being OP
2.) Provide a standardized faction suit for FW. I was looking forward to seeing these become common in FW due to FW not paying out ISK. I think the increased racial parity would be great for FW: When I'm playing against Amarr, I want to see mostly Amarr suits and weapons on the other team. Pubs can be the hodge-podge of mercs slapping together all the crazy combos they want, where FW would look much more like the two factions at war with each other, is how I've always imagined it anyways.
Customization of the APEX suits erases benefit number 2, which is unfortunate. This game has under-performed in the immersion and lore departments, and I was looking forward to having FW feel more like a war between the factions.
For that reason I propose limited customization
Limited Customization
Not every part of the suit should be customizable. For example, weapons should only be exchangeable with weapons of the same factions. No race-mixing weapons. Equipment and modules could be mixed due to the imbalance of racial equipment.
This gives players limited options, and still encourages racial parity.
I agree except for one thing. The Republic 'Tiger' Scout, being the famous ninja knifer it's designed to be, needs CALDARI Nova Knives to utilize it's popular bonus. We don't have Minmatar-variant knives. Think about that for a bit.
the Minmatar shouldn't have bonus to Caldari weapons in the first place |
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
11608
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Posted - 2015.05.10 02:47:00 -
[29] - Quote
Sicerly Yaw wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Talos Vagheitan wrote:What does everything think?
Is APEX customization good for Dust, and if so, are we doing it properly?
The Role of Apex Suits
What is the main benefit to having them in Dust? To me, they served 2 purposes.
1.) Provide a viable option to poor players in pubs while not being OP
2.) Provide a standardized faction suit for FW. I was looking forward to seeing these become common in FW due to FW not paying out ISK. I think the increased racial parity would be great for FW: When I'm playing against Amarr, I want to see mostly Amarr suits and weapons on the other team. Pubs can be the hodge-podge of mercs slapping together all the crazy combos they want, where FW would look much more like the two factions at war with each other, is how I've always imagined it anyways.
Customization of the APEX suits erases benefit number 2, which is unfortunate. This game has under-performed in the immersion and lore departments, and I was looking forward to having FW feel more like a war between the factions.
For that reason I propose limited customization
Limited Customization
Not every part of the suit should be customizable. For example, weapons should only be exchangeable with weapons of the same factions. No race-mixing weapons. Equipment and modules could be mixed due to the imbalance of racial equipment.
This gives players limited options, and still encourages racial parity.
I agree except for one thing. The Republic 'Tiger' Scout, being the famous ninja knifer it's designed to be, needs CALDARI Nova Knives to utilize it's popular bonus. We don't have Minmatar-variant knives. Think about that for a bit. the Minmatar shouldn't have bonus to Caldari weapons in the first place
The only thing that is keeping me from agreeing with you is the fact that all the other races don't have their own knives.
They all have their own first of the SMG but only one of them has their own pair of cutters.
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
2008
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Posted - 2015.05.10 05:03:00 -
[30] - Quote
Twelve Guage wrote:KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:NO.
The groundbreaking act of bringing prototype level suit BPOs was justified by the fact that they can not be edited!
That was how the community accepted their introduction.
In the opening weeks they were editable due to a bug. Even though it was not the end of the world, most agreed that it was too powerful and had to be fixed. I don't remember seeing the apex suits being editable was linked to some kind of bug.
In fact I'm pretty sure C.C.P. intended it with the last hot fix.
Means when the apex suits were first introduced. Yes they announced they were uneditable yet the were. And as I heard, they had 1000 PG and CPU as well.... =P
Looking at both sides of the coin.
Even Aurum one.
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el OPERATOR
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1097
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Posted - 2015.05.10 05:28:00 -
[31] - Quote
Majority opinion btw especially majority forum opinion would probably have you guys playing EVE-CoD.
I wouldn't be, I'd be loooong gone.
Open-Beta Vet.
Egbinger Original.
DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
11610
|
Posted - 2015.05.10 05:45:00 -
[32] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:Twelve Guage wrote:KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:NO.
The groundbreaking act of bringing prototype level suit BPOs was justified by the fact that they can not be edited!
That was how the community accepted their introduction.
In the opening weeks they were editable due to a bug. Even though it was not the end of the world, most agreed that it was too powerful and had to be fixed. I don't remember seeing the apex suits being editable was linked to some kind of bug.
In fact I'm pretty sure C.C.P. intended it with the last hot fix. Means when the apex suits were first introduced. Yes they announced they were uneditable yet the were. And as I heard, they had 1000 PG and CPU as well.... =P
Yeah, the CPU/PG availability was ridiculously high back then. But that got nerfed big time as you can see.
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DDx77
OUTCAST MERCS
General Tso's Alliance
262
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Posted - 2015.05.10 05:54:00 -
[33] - Quote
It seems like a waste of time to be messing with suits that they now need to continue to check on to make sure they don't get out of hand and become OP
The change also greatly reduces risk vs reward
With full customization including adding skins, it also defeats the original point of the suits
But this could help them see if tiercide would work |
GeorgeN76
Senshi Slayers
33
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Posted - 2015.05.10 06:10:00 -
[34] - Quote
The current cpu & pg gimp put them in their place. They aren't op in any way. Leave them as they are
Scouts and Swarms
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
2009
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Posted - 2015.05.10 06:17:00 -
[35] - Quote
thor424 wrote:KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:NO.
The groundbreaking act of bringing prototype level suit BPOs was justified by the fact that they can not be edited!
That was how the community accepted their introduction.
In the opening weeks they were editable due to a bug. Even though it was not the end of the world, most agreed that it was too powerful and had to be fixed. I hope you are the minority. This is a big payout buff for the masses. It lets the cheap solo dudes who get rolled match after match put on something more competitive. New players only have to worry about skilling up the suit to take advantage of bonuses. They can prioritize more worthwhile core skills while having the same number of slots to work with as a vet. Only a glutton for punishment at this stage of Dust would still be holding on to ideals that obviously aren't appealing in an asset loss FPS.
Mmkay, no asset loss in a asset loss fps. MMkay.
Looking at both sides of the coin.
Even Aurum one.
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
2009
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Posted - 2015.05.10 06:20:00 -
[36] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:
For the most part, you are correct. But a lot of us in the community who accepted their introduction also accepted alternatives. I can't remember what those alternatives were exactly since it was so long ago, but I think it involved either meta-level locks or slashing the CPU/PG availability as we see now. I have been running faction warfare recently and I still haven't seen any APEX suits dominating the match. In fact, some of the APEX suits I see are still easy to kill as was made apparent by me being able to kill them effectively with a pair of ZN-28 Nova Knives. Even the sentinel APEX suits were easy for me to handle. They are just too gimped to be OP.
They were too gimped.
Tune up to Amarr Assault apex and re-evaluate your position...
Looking at both sides of the coin.
Even Aurum one.
|
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
11611
|
Posted - 2015.05.10 06:23:00 -
[37] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:
For the most part, you are correct. But a lot of us in the community who accepted their introduction also accepted alternatives. I can't remember what those alternatives were exactly since it was so long ago, but I think it involved either meta-level locks or slashing the CPU/PG availability as we see now. I have been running faction warfare recently and I still haven't seen any APEX suits dominating the match. In fact, some of the APEX suits I see are still easy to kill as was made apparent by me being able to kill them effectively with a pair of ZN-28 Nova Knives. Even the sentinel APEX suits were easy for me to handle. They are just too gimped to be OP.
They were too gimped. Tune up to Amarr Assault apex and re-evaluate your position...
I don't think I'll be acquiring the Amarr APEX anytime soon given that I fight for the Gallente and Minmatar factions only. I don't fight for the Amarr or Caldari.
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Templar XIII
163
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Posted - 2015.05.10 09:24:00 -
[38] - Quote
Personally, I do like APEX customizability a lot, but it should be limited to module and weapon BPOs only, thereby giving militia module and weapon BPO sales a push, allowing for some customizability and still keeping the suits in check. Being able to fit a boundless HMG on an APEX sentinel goes too far. |
shaman oga
Dead Man's Game
4637
|
Posted - 2015.05.10 09:30:00 -
[39] - Quote
I think that the suits should be meta-locked.
Take current value and add something (bc some items have higher meta in the same tier).
If meta is > than fixed value = fitting invalid
Shaman's Shack - A place to trade
Training to be a packed RE master launcher
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
5893
|
Posted - 2015.05.10 11:05:00 -
[40] - Quote
Remove APEX from the game.
Usually banned for being too awesome.
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
2010
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Posted - 2015.05.11 01:14:00 -
[41] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:
For the most part, you are correct. But a lot of us in the community who accepted their introduction also accepted alternatives. I can't remember what those alternatives were exactly since it was so long ago, but I think it involved either meta-level locks or slashing the CPU/PG availability as we see now. I have been running faction warfare recently and I still haven't seen any APEX suits dominating the match. In fact, some of the APEX suits I see are still easy to kill as was made apparent by me being able to kill them effectively with a pair of ZN-28 Nova Knives. Even the sentinel APEX suits were easy for me to handle. They are just too gimped to be OP.
They were too gimped. Tune up to Amarr Assault apex and re-evaluate your position... I don't think I'll be acquiring the Amarr APEX anytime soon given that I fight for the Gallente and Minmatar factions only. I don't fight for the Amarr or Caldari.
Loyalty APEX maybe but there is a possibility of AUR APEX open for everyone willing.
Looking at both sides of the coin.
Even Aurum one.
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thor424
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
167
|
Posted - 2015.05.11 01:50:00 -
[42] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:thor424 wrote:KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:NO.
The groundbreaking act of bringing prototype level suit BPOs was justified by the fact that they can not be edited!
That was how the community accepted their introduction.
In the opening weeks they were editable due to a bug. Even though it was not the end of the world, most agreed that it was too powerful and had to be fixed. I hope you are the minority. This is a big payout buff for the masses. It lets the cheap solo dudes who get rolled match after match put on something more competitive. New players only have to worry about skilling up the suit to take advantage of bonuses. They can prioritize more worthwhile core skills while having the same number of slots to work with as a vet. Only a glutton for punishment at this stage of Dust would still be holding on to ideals that obviously aren't appealing in an asset loss FPS. Mmkay, no asset loss in a asset loss fps. MMkay.
Would you rather have boring matches and small player base and keep the old ways?
Almost every person I play with that uses proto 24/7 was in APEX suits today. Meaning they are running lower powered suits. Others I'm sure are doing the same.
I'll take 16 players flying around in these suits on each side than 10 hiding because a few on the other side are using proto.
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Mobius Wyvern
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
6331
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Posted - 2015.05.11 03:37:00 -
[43] - Quote
LOL KILLZ wrote:But what happens when your Apex suit weapons get hit with the nerf hammer like my ScR is fixing to be? Do I go get another one?
Switch to Laser Rifles.
If you can afford some Viktor's, with 3 Compex DMs on an ak.0 Assault it never overheats, and by the time you're halfway through the battery you're doing enough damage to instakill anything the beam touches.
I've been combining that with a Cala's SMG to devastating effect.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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NextDark Knight
Molon Labe.
RUST415
796
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Posted - 2015.05.11 05:05:00 -
[44] - Quote
Can you use the BPOs on the Apex suits?
---
Also, There was Nova knives for each race in the second decade artwork.
--
The other RDV's in the game it should be random which RDVs are on the field if the asset is already in the game. (Example if random 0 or 1 is picked at the start of the match the Cal RDV is used for the rest of the game.. otherwise its' the gal RDV)
--
Don't mind the APEX BPOs just hoping that in the future using BPOs will require RESOUCES TO BUILD at the Battle Locations in the future so the "true loss" is brought back into the game. Let the people planning PC Battles manage resources and the Mercs battle it out.
Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox. Dustin since 6/29/2012
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