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Indianna Pwns
TERRA R1SING
New Eden's Heros
97
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Posted - 2015.05.07 23:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
... and implement dropsuit tieracide.
Lets give give all suits proto slot layouts and use CPU/PG/meta level to control suit power. The precedent has now been set with with the ability to edit APEX suits. |
Soldner VonKuechle
SAM-MIK
General Tso's Alliance
2282
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Posted - 2015.05.07 23:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
Indianna Pwns wrote:... and implement dropsuit tieracide.
Lets give give all suits proto slot layouts and use CPU/PG/meta level to control suit power. The precedent has now been set with with the ability to edit APEX suits.
gdi, legion progression 1.0 still lives!
Uuuuggggghhhhhh
Better netcoding and plugged memory leaks. Last pieces of the broken puzlzle.
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Indianna Pwns
TERRA R1SING
New Eden's Heros
98
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Posted - 2015.05.07 23:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
Will also make all your standard BPO's competitive with APEX BPO's again  |
Genral69 death
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
231
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Posted - 2015.05.07 23:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
And heres me that just changed my federation assault rifle to my quafe assault rifle. Altho I must say its not as satisfying killing a guy in my quafe assault with quafe AR and nova knifes
General limited: warming failure to pay, may lead to death,massive amount of pain or even lose of family. Since 1995
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Onesimus Tarsus
is-a-Corporation
3409
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Posted - 2015.05.08 00:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
Posted this about... Two years ago.
+1
But, I'd go to the next level and make one frame that you then make medium or heavy or leave light with adding/dropping armor mods, etc.
.emag nug ym tpecxe gnihtyreve sexif gnikamhctam RDK
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Soldner VonKuechle
SAM-MIK
General Tso's Alliance
2287
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Posted - 2015.05.08 00:53:00 -
[6] - Quote
Onesimus Tarsus wrote:Posted this about... Two years ago.
+1
But, I'd go to the next level and make one frame that you then make medium or heavy or leave light with adding/dropping armor mods, etc.
Waaaat? And have actual purpose built suits? With bonuses for certain battle field roles like dedicated av, or damage eating sentinal or highly mobile jumpy recon?
Noooo waaaaayyyyy.
Way too logical!
Better netcoding and plugged memory leaks. Last pieces of the broken puzlzle.
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CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
22068
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Posted - 2015.05.08 00:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
Genral69 death wrote:And heres me that just changed my federation assault rifle to my quafe assault rifle. Altho I must say its not as satisfying killing a guy in my quafe assault with quafe AR and nova knifes
Can I have a picture of your quafe scout with quafe nova knives, "for my collection"...
Also, tiericide is always something we consider regularly.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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Onesimus Tarsus
is-a-Corporation
3409
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Posted - 2015.05.08 00:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
Soldner VonKuechle wrote:Onesimus Tarsus wrote:Posted this about... Two years ago.
+1
But, I'd go to the next level and make one frame that you then make medium or heavy or leave light with adding/dropping armor mods, etc. Waaaat? And have actual purpose built suits? With bonuses for certain battle field roles like dedicated av, or damage eating sentinal or highly mobile jumpy recon? Noooo waaaaayyyyy. Way too logical!
I know, it's a weakness.
.emag nug ym tpecxe gnihtyreve sexif gnikamhctam RDK
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Vicious Minotaur
2329
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Posted - 2015.05.08 00:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
I see no reason why tiericide should not be done.
Then again, I am no fan of mental gymnastics and being stupid.
I am a minotaur.
a+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa+üa¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça+üa+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ë
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Onesimus Tarsus
is-a-Corporation
3409
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Posted - 2015.05.08 00:58:00 -
[10] - Quote
Soldner VonKuechle wrote:Onesimus Tarsus wrote:Posted this about... Two years ago.
+1
But, I'd go to the next level and make one frame that you then make medium or heavy or leave light with adding/dropping armor mods, etc. Waaaat? And have actual purpose built suits? With bonuses for certain battle field roles like dedicated av, or damage eating sentinal or highly mobile jumpy recon? Noooo waaaaayyyyy. Way too logical!
Wait until I make weapons optional.
.emag nug ym tpecxe gnihtyreve sexif gnikamhctam RDK
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MR MOJOO
Capital Acquisitions LLC
59
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Posted - 2015.05.08 01:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
Indianna Pwns wrote:... and implement dropsuit tieracide.
Lets give give all suits proto slot layouts and use CPU/PG/meta level to control suit power. The precedent has now been set with with the ability to edit APEX suits.
Bro just stfu your whining is killing the game thats why vets uninstalled this game you want this and that and the devs give you what you wanted you can easily convince them theyre like dogs tell them what to do and theyll do it smh guess this game is dead
=ƒö+=ƒÆ£=ƒÅá
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Soldner VonKuechle
SAM-MIK
General Tso's Alliance
2288
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Posted - 2015.05.08 01:08:00 -
[12] - Quote
Onesimus Tarsus wrote:Soldner VonKuechle wrote:Onesimus Tarsus wrote:Posted this about... Two years ago.
+1
But, I'd go to the next level and make one frame that you then make medium or heavy or leave light with adding/dropping armor mods, etc. Waaaat? And have actual purpose built suits? With bonuses for certain battle field roles like dedicated av, or damage eating sentinal or highly mobile jumpy recon? Noooo waaaaayyyyy. Way too logical! Wait until I make weapons optional.
Pfft, non combat medics you say.
Sounds like something real life would do
Better netcoding and plugged memory leaks. Last pieces of the broken puzlzle.
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Soldner VonKuechle
SAM-MIK
General Tso's Alliance
2288
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Posted - 2015.05.08 01:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Genral69 death wrote:And heres me that just changed my federation assault rifle to my quafe assault rifle. Altho I must say its not as satisfying killing a guy in my quafe assault with quafe AR and nova knifes Can I have a picture of your quafe scout with quafe nova knives, "for my collection"... Also, tiericide is always something we consider regularly.
Should i submit my thesis now or wait till after pc 2.0?
How is that going by the way?
Better netcoding and plugged memory leaks. Last pieces of the broken puzlzle.
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Joel II X
Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
7343
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Posted - 2015.05.08 01:14:00 -
[14] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Genral69 death wrote:And heres me that just changed my federation assault rifle to my quafe assault rifle. Altho I must say its not as satisfying killing a guy in my quafe assault with quafe AR and nova knifes Can I have a picture of your quafe scout with quafe nova knives, "for my collection"... Also, tiericide is always something we consider regularly.
He said Assault, not scout, but I could be of service. Which racial scout do you want to see with knives? |
Joel II X
Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
7343
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Posted - 2015.05.08 01:17:00 -
[15] - Quote
Indianna Pwns wrote:Will also make all your standard BPO's competitive with APEX BPO's again
Yeah. |
DUST Fiend
16897
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Posted - 2015.05.08 01:18:00 -
[16] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Genral69 death wrote:And heres me that just changed my federation assault rifle to my quafe assault rifle. Altho I must say its not as satisfying killing a guy in my quafe assault with quafe AR and nova knifes Can I have a picture of your quafe scout with quafe nova knives, "for my collection"... Also, tiericide is always something we consider regularly.
My only question is, if you're regularly considering tiericide, why would you go through the effort to introduce more tiers of vehicles?
"When in doubt, dropship out"
If you see me, bring AV to collect ISK
DUST STUFF
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Yoda Boss
Dem Durrty Boyz
41
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Posted - 2015.05.08 01:22:00 -
[17] - Quote
So now my proto sentinel suit cost 47k.
And with my preferred sidearm. (Smg) and a better damage mod. (Krin)
Free BPO for New Recruits https://dust514.com/recruit/fCH9zc/
smokingdrinkingsmokingdrinking
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Onesimus Tarsus
is-a-Corporation
3410
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Posted - 2015.05.08 01:22:00 -
[18] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Genral69 death wrote:And heres me that just changed my federation assault rifle to my quafe assault rifle. Altho I must say its not as satisfying killing a guy in my quafe assault with quafe AR and nova knifes Can I have a picture of your quafe scout with quafe nova knives, "for my collection"... Also, tiericide is always something we consider regularly. My only question is, if you're regularly considering tiericide, why would you go through the effort to introduce more tiers of vehicles?
It's not too expensive to think, or to say you're thinking.
.emag nug ym tpecxe gnihtyreve sexif gnikamhctam RDK
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Onesimus Tarsus
is-a-Corporation
3410
|
Posted - 2015.05.08 02:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
MR MOJOO wrote:Indianna Pwns wrote:... and implement dropsuit tieracide.
Lets give give all suits proto slot layouts and use CPU/PG/meta level to control suit power. The precedent has now been set with with the ability to edit APEX suits. Bro just stfu your whining is killing the game thats why vets uninstalled this game you want this and that and the devs give you what you wanted you can easily convince them theyre like dogs tell them what to do and theyll do it smh guess this game is dead
Look, when you run out of commas, you can buy more with aurum.
.emag nug ym tpecxe gnihtyreve sexif gnikamhctam RDK
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
1998
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Posted - 2015.05.08 03:10:00 -
[20] - Quote
Indianna Pwns wrote:... and implement dropsuit tieracide.
Lets give give all suits proto slot layouts and use CPU/PG/meta level to control suit power. The precedent has now been set with with the ability to edit APEX suits.
No, as the proto suits would still be infinitely better than ADV suits, which in turn are infinitely better than STD.
Now what is needed is a battlefield drawback, some sort of sacrifice in using higher tier.
And no, isk is not it. There's no isk on the battlefield.
Looking at both sides of the coin.
Even Aurum one.
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CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
22140
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Posted - 2015.05.08 03:38:00 -
[21] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Genral69 death wrote:And heres me that just changed my federation assault rifle to my quafe assault rifle. Altho I must say its not as satisfying killing a guy in my quafe assault with quafe AR and nova knifes Can I have a picture of your quafe scout with quafe nova knives, "for my collection"... Also, tiericide is always something we consider regularly. My only question is, if you're regularly considering tiericide, why would you go through the effort to introduce more tiers of vehicles?
Do they have the same exact tiers as dropsuits?
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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Genral69 death
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
232
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Posted - 2015.05.08 14:46:00 -
[22] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Genral69 death wrote:And heres me that just changed my federation assault rifle to my quafe assault rifle. Altho I must say its not as satisfying killing a guy in my quafe assault with quafe AR and nova knifes Can I have a picture of your quafe scout with quafe nova knives, "for my collection"... Also, tiericide is always something we consider regularly.
I'm sorry I said quafe assault not scout. You still want a pic?
General limited: warming failure to pay, may lead to death,massive amount of pain or even lose of family. Since 1995
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Celus Ivara
DUST University
Ivy League
363
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Posted - 2015.05.08 15:57:00 -
[23] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:Indianna Pwns wrote:... and implement dropsuit tieracide.
Lets give give all suits proto slot layouts and use CPU/PG/meta level to control suit power. The precedent has now been set with with the ability to edit APEX suits. No, as the proto suits would still be infinitely better than ADV suits, which in turn are infinitely better than STD. Now what is needed is a battlefield drawback, some sort of sacrifice in using higher tier. And no, isk is not it. There's no isk on the battlefield.
This simple posts hits a lot of really complex issues right on the head.
One is that "tiericide" is a word that means different things to different people, and that many people don't know the abstract of it other than it's "that thing that should obviously be added to the game to make it better".
The concept of tiericide started on EVE as a response to the realization of "ship A is always better than ship B, which is always better than ship C, etc" is actually super unfun, because it removes choice from vets and makes non-vets near useless until they've grinded to the end-game.
Tiericide is about killing the idea of ship tiers. Instead give each ship a purpose in the game.
Ship A is still a bad-ass mo'fo. But that's only useful when you need a bad-ass mo'fo. Sometime you need something nimble, tackley, stealthy, fast, healy, cap-wary, EWARy, et'all.
(For example: I have a 5-1/2 year-old, highly skilled character, and I spend the vast majority of my time in a shuttle! It's the tiniest ship in the game, but it's fantastic for managing market-hub industry.)
So two things come from the above:
First is that if we are going to talk about tiericide, let's at least make sure we are actually suggesting killing tiers.
The suggestion of making STD/ADV/PTO balanced by only making them better by CPU/PG size still has Proto being a better suit than the other two. The tiers still exist.
Second, is that we might not need tiericide as bad as EVE needed it.
Yes, Proto suits are always better than STD/ADV suits. And yes, Basic suits are always worse than Specialized suits.
But the five suit specializations with four race variations gives us 20 different equally viable suits to bring to a fight.
And the weapons and equipment are quite different; you can't objectively say an assault rifle is better than a sniper rifle.
So vets do have a lot of variety.
Now with that out of the way, we do need to segue into the acknowledgement that tiers DO exist, and there are scenarios where that is borderline game-breaking; Proto-bears grinding on new-bros was never a good situation.
An interesting aspect here is that the higher tiers are gated by SP and access to ISK, and this is by design.
- SP is the progression in the game, so "of course" you get better with more SP.
- ISK is the balancing factor, better gear costs more money, and hypothetically leads to an engaging risk/reward scenario.
Now, while this is intentional, it does cause problems in certain situations.
All else equal, a Proto-fit player fighting a Standard-fit player is fundamentally unbalanced and thus un-fun.
In the early days of Dust this was omnipresent (and is a big part of what sunk the game. As an aside, I'm passionately looking forward to the launch of Dust 2.0 where we have this fixed ahead of time.).
With the introduction of Academy, Team-Balancer, and Matchmaking, we've largely eliminated this.
Now-a-days in pubs, when Proto-fits fight Standard, it's because the Standard player is a talented bad-ass who can slaughter with Basic gear.
Everything is great! ....in pubs.
In FW and PC there is no external balancing.
Therefore:
- Low SP players can't compete.
- Players with ISK faucets running are brokenly OP.
The first one is a little bit of an issue, but I don't think it's too bad. Not too many people complain about day 1 WOW players not being able to Raid, or little league players not being able to engage in MLB.
Still though, it is unique content they can't experience. If we could figure out a way for new players to meaningfully engage with this content, that would be ideal (*cough*District Raiding*cough*  ).
The ISK-faucet thing though, I think is a real issue. A player with the backing of a rich corp (like in the early/mid Nyan-san days) or "paying to win" (heavy quotes, but still) by buying AURUM Proto gear / trading AURUM items for ISK to then trade for officer, can field extremely powerful gear without cost.
This brings us to the core issue here:
- The power level of gear is determined by what it can do in battle.
- Powerful gear is balanced by carrying higher costs of in-battle and/or out-of-battle resources.
- If a player has an abundance of an out-of-battle resource, they are fundamentally unbalanced in battle.
It's worth clarifying the main culprit is Proto suits; Proto weapons/mods consume more of the in-battle resource of available CPU/PG. Suits have no such in-battle power check.
[1 of 2] |
Celus Ivara
DUST University
Ivy League
363
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Posted - 2015.05.08 15:58:00 -
[24] - Quote
[2 of 2]
So how do we fix this?
We could figure out a way to make everyone bear the same burden for lost ISK (which to my knowledge only has solutions we hate, like giving everyone a daily ration of ISK, or removing ISK from the game completely.).
Or we could remove suit tiers completely.
Or, we could figure out a way for high-end gear to be balanced by an in-game cost.
For example, spawning in a Proto suit costs 5 clones while spawning in Basic costs 1.
Or say, dieing in a Proto suit increases your spawn timer.
An idea has been kicked around for a while where if you kill a suit of a higher meta-level than yours, you get more WP; likewise killing weaker suits nets less WP.
Ultimately though, Dust mercs will always be unbalanced against each other.
You can't nerf player skill, and teamwork is always OP.
But the more we counter-balance the power disparities we can access, the more evenly matched, and thus fun, the battles and game becomes. |
Celus Ivara
DUST University
Ivy League
363
|
Posted - 2015.05.08 16:00:00 -
[25] - Quote
TL;DR
Celus Ivara wrote:KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:Indianna Pwns wrote:... and implement dropsuit tieracide.
Lets give give all suits proto slot layouts and use CPU/PG/meta level to control suit power. The precedent has now been set with with the ability to edit APEX suits. No, as the proto suits would still be infinitely better than ADV suits, which in turn are infinitely better than STD. Now what is needed is a battlefield drawback, some sort of sacrifice in using higher tier. And no, isk is not it. There's no isk on the battlefield. ^This.
...maybe I should have just typed those six characters and saved everybody a bunch of time.
I write way too much.  |
Indianna Pwns
TERRA R1SING
New Eden's Heros
110
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Posted - 2015.05.08 16:24:00 -
[26] - Quote
MR MOJOO wrote:Indianna Pwns wrote:... and implement dropsuit tieracide.
Lets give give all suits proto slot layouts and use CPU/PG/meta level to control suit power. The precedent has now been set with with the ability to edit APEX suits. Bro just stfu your whining is killing the game thats why vets uninstalled this game you want this and that and the devs give you what you wanted you can easily convince them theyre like dogs tell them what to do and theyll do it smh guess this game is dead
1. I am a vet my character was created in beta.
2. I don't see where I am 'whining'.
3. Learn to use punctuation. |
Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
RUST415
3743
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Posted - 2015.05.08 16:34:00 -
[27] - Quote
Indianna Pwns wrote:1. I am a vet my character was created in beta.
...
3. Learn to use punctuation.
Oh, the irony.
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Indianna Pwns
TERRA R1SING
New Eden's Heros
110
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Posted - 2015.05.08 16:36:00 -
[28] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:Indianna Pwns wrote:... and implement dropsuit tieracide.
Lets give give all suits proto slot layouts and use CPU/PG/meta level to control suit power. The precedent has now been set with with the ability to edit APEX suits. No, as the proto suits would still be infinitely better than ADV suits, which in turn are infinitely better than STD. Now what is needed is a battlefield drawback, some sort of sacrifice in using higher tier. And no, isk is not it. There's no isk on the battlefield.
I understand that proto suits will be better, I understand thats's how the game was designed.
However my main issue with the current slot progression is that STD and to a lesser extent ADV dropsuits don't allow players to fully explore the fittings system.
I believe that flattening slot progression will allow players to better explore all the fitting possibilities the game offers without monetary risk inherent in running proto. To put it simply I would be much more willing to run experimental fits and lolfits if i know each death isn't to cost me an arm and a leg. |
Genral69 death
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
233
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Posted - 2015.05.08 16:36:00 -
[29] - Quote
Grow up all of you. Instead take pleasure in shooting each other in the face (in game of course)
General limited: warming failure to pay, may lead to death,massive amount of pain or even lose of family. Since 1995
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MR MOJOO
Capital Acquisitions LLC
60
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Posted - 2015.05.08 16:55:00 -
[30] - Quote
Indianna Pwns wrote:MR MOJOO wrote:Indianna Pwns wrote:... and implement dropsuit tieracide.
Lets give give all suits proto slot layouts and use CPU/PG/meta level to control suit power. The precedent has now been set with with the ability to edit APEX suits. Bro just stfu your whining is killing the game thats why vets uninstalled this game you want this and that and the devs give you what you wanted you can easily convince them theyre like dogs tell them what to do and theyll do it smh guess this game is dead 1. I am a vet, my character was created in beta. 2. I don't see where I am 'whining'. 3. Learn to use punctuation.
Okay,okay and okay here are my steps 1.I dont care when were you created i actually dont give a rat ass.
2.ypu are whining because you want to modify apex suits and asking dev to this for you.
I use punctuation just that it doesn't make sense to use it in the forums
Questions?
=ƒö+=ƒÆ£=ƒÅá
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