DUST Search - So let me get this straight?

tal mrak-thanl wrote:

1)Yes, that was my subjective opinion, did I claim otherwise? I didn't make any appeals to emotion, I am sincere in my regret that everybody didn't get to enjoy, what I subjectively considered to be, an exceptionally fun game element.

2)You've been ostentensibly negative throughout this entire discussion. You claim that I've commited 'logical fallacies', yet you have failed to provide any empirical evidence to support your position. Your argument of armor tanked jumpers is flat out wrong, as I've pointed out at least twice, and to which you have not replied.
Your argument about an easy escape vector is absurdly wrong in my experience, jumping during combat has resulted in instant death every time I've tried it, as it has for those who have tried to jump to escape me. Apparently you've had a different experience regarding this particular aspect of jumping, as you have repeatedly cited it as a concrete and universal detriment.

3)The premise of your argument is that jumpers annoy you; the premise of my argument is that your annoyance isn't justification to eliminate content from the game. If you consider the changes to myos within the context of one of the weapons, perhaps you will be more understanding of my reaction. Imagine if the dps of your gun of choice was halved, would you not seek a compromise at the very least? if the HMG got nerfed in half, the forums would rage! But you know what the difference is between myos and HMGs? Practically no one uses myos.

Now, I am going to make an appeal to your emotions: I would appreciate if you would stop condescending to me. I apologize if something I said made you feel the need to insult my intelligence, it was never my intention to offend you.


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MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2995	Posted - 2015.05.07 20:11:00 - [1] - Quote Assaults have about 500-600 hp base. 2 complex shield extenders puts them up to almost 800, 2 complex armor plates put them up almost to 900 ehp. That's not 'scout ehp'. There was plenty of things that were overpowered about stacked myo's, including the fact that everyone knew that they were not working as intended but decided "HEY LETS ABUSE THE CRAP OUT OF THEM ANYWAYS!" Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2997	Posted - 2015.05.07 20:21:00 - [2] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Assaults have about 500-600 hp base. 2 complex shield extenders puts them up to almost 800, 2 complex armor plates put them up almost to 900 ehp. That's not 'scout ehp'. There was plenty of things that were overpowered about stacked myo's, including the fact that everyone knew that they were not working as intended but decided "HEY LETS ABUSE THE CRAP OUT OF THEM ANYWAYS!" It depends on your definition of intended. I think they were working as intended. This is like all the crazy tabletop dungeons and dragons rules lawyering arguments I see people get into. Rules as written are often very different from rules as intended. In this case we swap out rules for 'code' and we end up with the statement of "Code as written is often very different from code as intended". They were dramatically overexceeding their stated design intent "3 complex would allow a minscout to barely jump up on a medium crate", what I instead saw and saw frequently was caldari and min assaults that still had plenty of HP, jumping twice the height of those crates while wielding splash damage weapons, so they could play tribes ascend while everyone else was still stuck on the ground. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3011	Posted - 2015.05.08 12:50:00 - [3] - Quote tal mrak-thanl wrote: Jumping was not obnoxious, it was cool as hell. THIS IS SUBJECTIVE OPINION. You may have found it 'cool as hell', but I guarantee you that for every person that found it 'cooooooooool' five others hated it. tal mrak-thanl wrote: If it didn't work out for the suits you skilled into, I'm sorry you missed the chance to have a lot of fun. I wonder if the sides in this argument would be reversed if jump mods ended up in low slots? "If you couldn't exploit it, I'm sorry (I'm not really, I'm just being disingenuous), I wonder if you'd be upset about having your ability to exploit it removed if you were actually exploiting it!" This I meaningless non-discussion. Stop making appeals to emotion, they're logical fallacies. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3024	Posted - 2015.05.08 23:36:00 - [4] - Quote tal mrak-thanl wrote: 1)Yes, that was my subjective opinion, did I claim otherwise? I didn't make any appeals to emotion, I am sincere in my regret that everybody didn't get to enjoy, what I subjectively considered to be, an exceptionally fun game element. 2)You've been ostentensibly negative throughout this entire discussion. You claim that I've commited 'logical fallacies', yet you have failed to provide any empirical evidence to support your position. Your argument of armor tanked jumpers is flat out wrong, as I've pointed out at least twice, and to which you have not replied. Your argument about an easy escape vector is absurdly wrong in my experience, jumping during combat has resulted in instant death every time I've tried it, as it has for those who have tried to jump to escape me. Apparently you've had a different experience regarding this particular aspect of jumping, as you have repeatedly cited it as a concrete and universal detriment. 3)The premise of your argument is that jumpers annoy you; the premise of my argument is that your annoyance isn't justification to eliminate content from the game. If you consider the changes to myos within the context of one of the weapons, perhaps you will be more understanding of my reaction. Imagine if the dps of your gun of choice was halved, would you not seek a compromise at the very least? if the HMG got nerfed in half, the forums would rage! But you know what the difference is between myos and HMGs? Practically no one uses myos. Now, I am going to make an appeal to your emotions: I would appreciate if you would stop condescending to me. I apologize if something I said made you feel the need to insult my intelligence, it was never my intention to offend you. 1) You present your opinion as fact. The claim that you have not made appeals to emotion is false. 2) You have commited logical fallacies. Yes, I have been critical of your position(as you would call it 'negative'), you are also confusing the burden of proof, you are making wild assertions that myo users have to 'sacrifice a ton' and I've quite simply and easily pointed out that this is in no way the case. "Oh no armor plates negatively affect jumping" You lose what, a meter or two off of your jump height in exchange for fitting HP modules that provide equal value to the 4 highslots you've given up? What exactly are you giving up here? The ability to fit speed mods? I've only seen a few niche fits that ran speed mods instead of being ultra-tanked. Your position here is completely ridiculous and your arguments are so flawed that they don't even really need addressing. Yes sometimes jumpers die when they jump in close quarters, more often than not however, they don't unless they were completely outnumbered to begin with and even then they survive longer than most other infantry would when put in the same position 3) The premise of my argument is that stacked myo's are blatantly unbalanced, and this can be evidenced by their daily purchase rate shooting up 1000% from the day they were changed, making them 1/3rd as popular as shield extenders and 1/2 as popular as damage mods. I have provided plausible justification for my position. Each myo mod is what, 25% extra jump at complex level? If stacking penalties were applying properly that would be 86% extra jump height for four - not the 500-700% people were getting from four of them. In context that changes the normal 2m of vertical jump height on an assault to 3.7m, not the 13-15m people were getting. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3026	Posted - 2015.05.09 01:01:00 - [5] - Quote Crimson ShieId wrote: Georgia Xavier wrote: Soldner VonKuechle wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: tal mrak-thanl wrote: Jumping was not obnoxious, it was cool as hell. THIS IS SUBJECTIVE OPINION. You may have found it 'cool as hell', but I guarantee you that for every person that found it 'cooooooooool' five others hated it. care substantiate how you quantified that? Or are you making a subjective opinion as well? you can read one of the many displeased topics people have made about myos, just hit up the search tab and write myofibrils. You just see what you want to see don't you? You're also just as likely to find just as many people who absolutely loved myofibrils after their changes. The very fact that it has a decisive split among peoples feelings surrounding the statement 'jumping is cool as all hell' substantiates that said statement is a subjective opinion. sub-+jec-+tive /s+Öb-êjektiv/ adjective 1. based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions. o-+pin-+ion /+Ö-êpiny+Ön/ noun 1. a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge. Compare this to objective fact ob-+jec-+tive /+Öb-êjektiv/ adjective 1. not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts. fact /fakt/ noun 1. a thing that is indisputably the case. I should not have to be defining these words to adults. Nor should I have to be highlighting the obvious. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3028	Posted - 2015.05.09 01:53:00 - [6] - Quote Dictionary definitions of words are wiki references now? Lol. You've outed yourself as a dumbass. We've explained why and where the problems were, ignoring evidence doesn't make it not exist. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3030	Posted - 2015.05.09 02:23:00 - [7] - Quote Crimson ShieId wrote: And you continue to show that you're quite good at tossing insults around. Definitions are (also) located on wiki, even if they don't originate there, thus the statement. Care to continue, or are you simply unable to hold a civil conversation? I wasn't quoting wiki's, I was pointing out the accepted definitions of words. I'm not sure where you're going with this but it's pedantic and infantile. Crimson ShieId wrote: ~~You can throw whatever definitions you pulled off wiki around all you want~~, it's not going to change that fact that some people really enjoyed them while others, like yourself, downright hated them and seem to be making it a habit of tossing out insults towards those who disagree with your ideas that Myofibrils are/were bad for the game. I've actually tossed around relatively few insults regarding myo's, but you're entirely agreeing with my point that enjoyment of myo's is a subjective opinion. That they caused a lot of unintended gameplay however is and has been demonstrated within this thread even with plenty of sound reasoning presented! Largely the response of myo users is to plug their ears and go "LALALALALA I CANT HEAR YOU" because evidence that contradicts their view is badwrong and doesn't exist. It's a wonder that some people might throw insults after getting frustrated when confronted with such childishness and refusal to see reason. Crimson ShieId wrote: Like many things in this game, CCP didn't test them and didn't anticipate how high people would be jumping. The results of stacking may not have been intended, but it was one of the most entertaining glitches to ever come out of this game, not to mention the fact that it helped end a lot of rooftop camping by allowing access to many areas previously only reachable by dropship. The descriptor 'entertaining' has no inherent value, what you call entertaining plenty of others call it frustrating. Myo's did little to end rooftop camping because in almost every match where I saw myo's used, it was the people using myo's to get uplinks into all of the high spots without requiring dropships. I might go so far as to even say gasp that myo's exacerbated rooftop camping: they were part of the problem, not a solution to it. Crimson ShieId wrote: Could a jumpy clone who just wouldn't seem to die be annoying? Yes. But so can a cloaked Gallente shotgun scout, so can a proto Amarr assault with a scrambler rifle and stacked damage mods, so can logi trains, and the redline snipers can sure as heck be annoying as well. Ah yes, we're on to the logical fallacy of false equivalence now. All things that are 'annoying' are in fact equal in how frustrating they are to deal with, except that isn't true at all. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3031	Posted - 2015.05.09 02:32:00 - [8] - Quote tal mrak-thanl wrote: I'm not being stringent at all about your guarantee, someone else was. Actually, if you reread it, they weren't going on about my poignant exaggeration at all, they were just being contrary for the sake of being contrary. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3037	Posted - 2015.05.09 03:00:00 - [9] - Quote tal mrak-thanl wrote: Actually, I think most of this thread is about your poignant exaggerations. I thought it was mostly about harvesting delicious myo tears. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3042	Posted - 2015.05.09 04:19:00 - [10] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Georgia Xavier wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: This is like all the crazy tabletop dungeons and dragons rules lawyering arguments I see people get into. Rules as written are often very different from rules as intended. God what I wouldn't give for self updating books Trying to keep track of Wizards fixes to rules is a damn nightmare, or at least it was back when I tried to keep up with it haha. You play DnD? I used to play it religiously, I haven't had the chance to play in years though. I DMd mostly, I like to keep things cruel but fair Make a Dust themed DnD one shot. Get some forum guys to play. 5E for easy pickup. I love playing DnD, just haven't had time with school this semester. I'll probably pick up a campaign over the summer. One of the 40K tabletops would work better I think. Deathwatch or something? Refluff it a bit and it should be fine. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.

MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3043	Posted - 2015.05.09 04:31:00 - [11] - Quote DDx77 wrote: Hahaha you hate myofibs so much it's hilarious Literally going above and beyond trolling by posting wiki definitions All this hate and myofibs aren't going away :D When you face a min assault that jumps but doesn't die from fall damage and then strafes you to death you're going to wish you never posted that "myofibs stacking penalty not working" thread (At least I'm pretty sure that was you) The days of myo superjumps are numbered. Also what wiki definitions? I used exactly one to define burden of proof. Or do you mean dictionary definitions of words so that people would stop being idiots and misusing them? Yes I made a thread about myo stacking penalty not working in the bug reports section of the forum - that's what you're supposed to do when bugs are encountered, report them so they can be fixed. DDx77 wrote: It's actually not a big deal that they're "nerfing" myos, but you have to admit they should leave it alone They are fine now and wasting any more time on them when we should be trading bpo's or using new skins is crazy I "have to admit" absolutely nothing, especially when it comes to agreeing/compromising with people on something I have no reason to agree or compromise with them over. No they should not "leave it alone", not until myo's have a properly working stacking penalty which coincidentally means no more superjumps. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3043	Posted - 2015.05.09 04:32:00 - [12] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I used to play it religiously, I haven't had the chance to play in years though. I DMd mostly, I like to keep things cruel but fair Make a Dust themed DnD one shot. Get some forum guys to play. 5E for easy pickup. I love playing DnD, just haven't had time with school this semester. I'll probably pick up a campaign over the summer. One of the 40K tabletops would work better I think. Deathwatch or something? Refluff it a bit and it should be fine. Kinda what I meant. I refer to practically every d20 pen and paper by DnD, I just think of them all as different rule sets with a similar core. The 40k games are d10 and pretty good at that. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3044	Posted - 2015.05.09 11:41:00 - [13] - Quote You're unfortunately way off about how much I 'hate' myo's. The assertion that I'm incredibly upset doesn't match up with reality, where I've been carrying out a pretty calm rational discussion with people for quite some time. Shout 'U mad tho' a few thousand more times though and maybe it'll be true. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.