Small buff to forge gun damage across the board. I've always felt that forge guns were the most balanced AV weapon of them all, but honestly they just don't hit hard enough right now. Introducing even stronger hulls will likely exacerbate this problem, and push even more people to swarm launchers. I feel that just going with a straight damage buff at first may be all that's needed, so starting there seems best.

Breach FG would have to be carefully looked at when buffing base damage, but otherwise I think a bit more damage would be a good thing.

But an RoF buff would make IAFG a nightmare to engage anywhere near its optimal because you can tag a DS at very long range already (granted that's very hard). Making all 4 rounds hit that much quicker would reduce your ability to evade quite significantly, and would generally equate to higher practical DPS for the forge, thus making them significantly more deadly. They're still far from a non factor, as good forgers are still one of the most threatening things, it's just that I actually have the chance to evade them unlike swarms.

The only way I think I would be ok with a RoF boost would be if they went down to a 3 round magazine, or had a significantly longer reload. The reload doesn't seem like it would help the issue of not being able to evade or escape in time though. Also, the RoF buff is almost worthless on the other two FGs because the majority of people hold the charge a bit longer than needed anyways, so it would generally not be felt, where as a damage buff would definitely be felt.

If Breach does so much damage, then perhaps it only needs a tiny damage buff, or perhaps it needs no buffs at all. I'm well aware how terrifying that thing is.

I wasn't aware of a 20% nerf to RoF as I haven't forged in quite some time now, if that's true then perhaps reverting that at least 10% would be alright.

That's exactly the thing though, gangups very often DO happen. Not even necessarily as you're engaging, but usually as you're fleeing you still pick up a few AVers on your way out. Right now a good forger will almost always land his first shot, where as the second really depends on the skill of the pilot if he opts to immediately flee as he should, with subsequent shots being very difficult to land. A ROF buff changes that to almost guaranteed first two shots, with a good chance to land the third. That's a lot of damage that hits quickly, unlike swarms which while they'll follow you forever, do take some time to actually apply their damage, allowing reps to mitigate some of their extreme damage.

This of course assumes the ship flees at top speed up and away from the FG, effectively removing him from the fight until he reps up and comes back around, which will usually be 15-30 seconds for most practical fits, longer for those that rely on hardeners. Also, an ROF buff is a direct buff to the FGs anti infantry capabilities, which really shouldn't be promoted, where as a direct damage buff changes literally nothing vs infantry.

I'd say a better zoom and slightly faster projectile speed could help a lot, but that would also make them that much better at infantry sniping again. If only there was a way to make it so the FG had slight dispersion when aimed at infantry, and none when aimed at a vehicle.

God **** I wish we had custom games, it would make it SO much easier to test things.

If a RoF nerf did indeed happen, then perhaps we can just start by reverting that once ADV and PRO LAVs and DSs are introduced. Let that go for a week or two, see how it feels, and then go from there.

We can't look at new behaviors, period. We can only look at tweaking what's already there. LAVs absolutely should be a factor, if you're shelling out the cash to field a proto LAV you want it to be balanced vs AV. It shouldn't stand up to sustained fire no, but it too has to be balanced against AV, otherwise, what's the point? LAVs are already really freaking useful for AV players, Rail LAVs with AV in them are one of the things I fear the MOST as an ADS pilot.

If a vehicle is in the game, it's a factor, no matter how small. Period.

I'm down with letting them take some small arms fire if they reduce the cost drastically, but you have to remember that all occupants exposed, so that is certainly a factor. Unless you run a heavy, you're extremely exposed, and even if you do, a few well placed shots or a well placed grenade will clear you right out. That is certainly a factor to remember. Also keep in mind that the explosive damage from AV is often enough to kill the pilot while leaving the LAV intact.

As for LAVs and needing AV, AV grenades do wonders and don't require a dedicated AV fit, as do REs, and any other vehicle. Unlike HAVs and DSs, LAVs are more of a supplementary role, and more often than not you won't see someone running to a supply depot to take out an LAV. They'll just leave it be and keep defending the point, since they can shoot out all occupants should the driver decide to stop anywhere nearby.

I think the new LAV buffs should be plenty for them, but we have to see what happens if and when ADV / PRO LAVs get into the mix, which I personally think they absolutely should. If they do though, the new changes should only be applied to ADV LAVs, with PRO gaining a bit more fitting capacity on top of what they currently have.

Here it is

What I feel this video most illustrates is how swarms don't track you from their point of origin, or else they would have collided with the wall LONG before I turned around. Instead, they continuously update behind you, allowing them to follow rather aggressive curves.

This is good stuff guys. As always Breakin Stuff, you are probably the most level headed AVer in existence!

My input on this discussion: I'm not paying 750k for a PRO ADS, unless I'm getting ADV HAV levels of resilience...